Fried Chicken, Tiger Woods and Black People

[scharm]

Ok I'm going to plead ignorance here.

 

I get that that Fried Chicken, and a few other foods are considered a racial sterotype that is ignorant for people to say.

 

 

But where did that sterotype come from? Honest question, I really dont know.

 

Not sure about Fried Chicken other than it's more of a Southern thing so I'm guessing it relates to Southern White folk liking Fried Chicken and Black Folk being the best at cooking it because they were the cooks. 

 

Pork BBQ - is purely from slave roots.   They used to give the slaves and the "help" what they considered the poorest cuts of meat at the time.   Necissity is the mother of invention and they had to cook it slow to allow all the fat etc. to cook off.    After slavery, like most of anything else you like the way Grandma cooked it and the BBQ joints spring up mostly owned/cooked by Blacks to service Blacks.     It ends up being good stuff so it spreads. 

 

Beef BBQ - similar deal in Texas in which they'd give the cheapest cuts of beef like brisket to the cattlemen and they figured out how to cook it low and slow. 

[|kennethmw|]

Ok I'm going to plead ignorance here.

 

I get that that Fried Chicken, and a few other foods are considered a racial sterotype that is ignorant for people to say.

 

 

But where did that sterotype come from? Honest question, I really dont know.

 

There are a lot of places that comes from.  First, during the slavery period, Chicken was basically the only animal that slaves were allowed to keep and raise for food and so it became considered a mainstay of black cuisine.  Secondly, it was a food that was eaten without utensils, which was considered vulgar.  Third, it was portrayed in "Birth of a Nation" as being eaten while the darkies were trying to "shuck and Jive" in government offices which gave it a distinct racist overtone.  This is one of many articles talking about the stereotype:

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/05/22/186087397/where-did-that-fried-chicken-stereotype-come-from

[T-Dub]

 

There are a lot of places that comes from.  First, during the slavery period, Chicken was basically the only animal that slaves were allowed to keep and raise for food and so it became considered a mainstay of black cuisine. 

 

Aha - wasn't aware of that.

 

This thread is making me hungry.

[MichaelWeston]

 

Because the fried chicken stereotype was created to be offensive to black people whereas Cajun cuisine wasn't used as a tool to demean Cajuns.  That's why it's received as offensive.  If you asked black people about soul food, they more than likely wouldn't get upset with you as it wasn't derived to be offensive.  

 

It's really not that hard at all. 

This is where the first question comes from. Why is it offensive? Who created it to be offensive. Why is something so delicous deemed to be a negative?

[MichaelWeston]

That's a good post. To follow that up with Jamie's question above - it sure would be educational and informative.

And the root of the very first question here before people had an overly sensitive hissy fit.

[Jamie_B]

Thanks guys, learnt something new today.

[MichaelWeston]

 

1915 film called Birth of a Nation, a highly racist film.  That's probably where the stereotype came from but regardless....it has negative connotation towards black people so THATS why we don't say it.  Because we're human beings who care about offending others because that offending energy you sent out will come back to you in kind.  "What goes around comes around".  That's where that phrase came from.....the energy you give off is what you get back in return. 

These are just nothing cliches that don't really speak to the point. I swear that half of the people on this board don't know how to have a discussion without it being a conflict.

[CincyInDC]

... I swear that half of the people on this board don't know how to have a discussion without it being a conflict.

 

Go eat a bowl of dicks, Weston.

[MichaelWeston]

 

There are a lot of places that comes from.  First, during the slavery period, Chicken was basically the only animal that slaves were allowed to keep and raise for food and so it became considered a mainstay of black cuisine.  Secondly, it was a food that was eaten without utensils, which was considered vulgar.  Third, it was portrayed in "Birth of a Nation" as being eaten while the darkies were trying to "shuck and Jive" in government offices which gave it a distinct racist overtone.  This is one of many articles talking about the stereotype:

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/05/22/186087397/where-did-that-fried-chicken-stereotype-come-from

Thanks.

 

Whats your personal take on it now? Would you be/are you offended.

 

Is there an intent compenent to racism? If I invite you over to my house and serve fried chicken or soul foud or whatever because there is a stereotype that black people like that, and I am doing it to try to be kind to you...is that racism?

[Jamie_B]

:lol:

 

I love that Dave Chappell skit in the link Kenneth posted (its linked in the article)

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM7-jT0WXWE

[JBandJoeyV]

These are just nothing cliches that don't really speak to the point. I swear that half of the people on this board don't know how to have a discussion without it being a conflict.

The point khatman dude was making and others are that it doesn't really matter if YOU or I or Sergio think its offensive. If a black person thinks its offensive then why say it? We know that fried chicken jokes are offensive, we might not know why (although some people game examples of why in this thread), but if you know it can be offensive and yet make the joke anyways then you deserve to be ridiculed.

So I understand that you don't necessarily know why it's offensive but it really doesn't matter if you know WHY it just matters that you know it is. And if a large group of people are going to take offense to something you probably shouldn't say it whether you know why it's offensive or not.

[JBandJoeyV]

Thanks.
 
Whats your personal take on it now? Would you be/are you offended.
 
Is there an intent compenent to racism? If I invite you over to my house and serve fried chicken or soul foud or whatever because there is a stereotype that black people like that, and I am doing it to try to be kind to you...is that racism?

I'm not black but I don't think Sergio's comment was necessarily racist. It was stupid, offensive, and out of line but I don't think his comment makes him racist.

So yes I think there's a matter of intent that matters. But even if his intent wasn't to be racist it can and was still offensive and dumb.

[MichaelWeston]

Thanks guys, learnt something new today.

Same here.

 

Followup question. Chicken and Watermelon appear to be a part of the history of African Americans in the country, despite it's use as a negative connotation, could it become like the word queer for gays and taken on by that community as a part of their culture in a positive light. There is nothing inherently bad with either thing, in fact both are amazingly delicious.

The point khatman dude was making and others are that it doesn't really matter if YOU or I or Sergio think its offensive. If a black person thinks its offensive then why say it? We know that fried chicken jokes are offensive, we might not know why (although some people game examples of why in this thread), but if you know it can be offensive and yet make the joke anyways then you deserve to be ridiculed.

So I understand that you don't necessarily know why it's offensive but it really doesn't matter if you know WHY it just matters that you know it is. And if a large group of people are going to take offense to something you probably shouldn't say it whether you know why it's offensive or not.

No one said it was ok to say it.

 

The entire thread is a discussion of why is it offensive?

 

Someone else turned it into, you shouldn't say things that might hurt people thread. Well no crap. You shouldn't tell people that they should eat a bowl of..... or that "You can say whatever fool thing pops into your head. If you're not a complete jackass, however, you might take a second to consider how what you say might be perceived and adjust accordingly. I mean, do you have fuckin' Tourette Syndrome?"

[MichaelWeston]

I'm not black but I don't think Sergio's comment was necessarily racist. It was stupid, offensive, and out of line but I don't think his comment makes him racist.

So yes I think there's a matter of intent that matters. But even if his intent wasn't to be racist it can and was still offensive and dumb.

 

I do think Sergio was saying it to be a jerk, because I am pretty sure they have a negative history.

 

But if you looked at it in a different way, if he said. Michelson is coming over we better get the McDonalds ready is that racist?

 

Article about it.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2011/11/obama_fried_chicken_incident_explaining_racist_food_stereotypes.html

[Khatmandude]

You have been shown that it's offensive, where the offensive nature of such a thing originated...multiple sources, yet you continue to ask about it.  What exactly are you trying to "learn" here? 

[MichaelWeston]

You have been shown that it's offensive, where the offensive nature of such a thing originated...multiple sources, yet you continue to ask about it.  What exactly are you trying to "learn" here? 

At this point I am just interested in Kenneths take on it. Is it really offensive to him or is it one of those things where tone, intent etc. really matter.

 

I think that despite the inability by a few people to have a discussion about what is a contentious topic that I learned a great deal and I appreciate Kenneth's explanation and the discussion of other's on here parsing out the question and the ideas around it.

[|kennethmw|]

Thanks.

 

Whats your personal take on it now? Would you be/are you offended.

 

Is there an intent compenent to racism? If I invite you over to my house and serve fried chicken or soul foud or whatever because there is a stereotype that black people like that, and I am doing it to try to be kind to you...is that racism?

 

That wouldn't be racist, that would be condescending.  Now if I came to your house, and you were serving fried chicken with mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans and coleslaw and biscuits with cake or something, that would not be offensive, but If you had fried chicken, collard greens, pinto beans and cornbread and served me watermelon for desert, I would wonder about you.

[MichaelWeston]

 

That wouldn't be racist, that would be condescending.  Now if I came to your house, and you were serving fried chicken with mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans and coleslaw and biscuits with cake or something, that would not be offensive, but If you had fried chicken, collard greens, pinto beans and cornbread and served me watermelon for desert, I would wonder about you.

 

Thanks for the insight. I do really appreciate it and your explanation from prior. Is it condescending if there is not a less than component? What I mean is if all food and all food tastes are equal, then where does the condensation come in. I could see it in a, everyone else gets grapes and salmon but you get fried chicken scenario. Is it inherently condensending because of the history tied to it?

 

I don't think I have never had collard greens. Might have to try some.

[Tigris]

This is where the first question comes from. Why is it offensive? Who created it to be offensive. Why is something so delicous deemed to be a negative?

It's something that almost had to do while enslaved. I could see it being bothersome. "Go eat some fried chicken". The fried chicken comment obviously relates to the slave days, and when someone says it like Sergio did... well, ya know what he meant. He could have said lasagna, whatever, and it meant nothing and frankly doesn't really make sense.

[Tigris]

 I would wonder about you.

This is the Kenneth I enjoy.

Weston, switch it up. Blacks enslaved whites. They gave us their cheapest meat, the chicken, to live off of. We fried it because that was the gasket way to eat it because all we had was fat from whatever other animal to cook with, ya know, the crap no one wanted and gave to us. After being worked, whipped, tortured, and after decades of eating this chicken we actually made worthwhile by frying, black guys are telling us to get eat "the scraps". It would be offensive to me.

If I'm speaking out of context here, someone correct me.

[MichaelWeston]

Good Discussion.

 

Whats everyones' favorite fried chicken place?

 

I am partial to KFC but people here love Cain's as well.

[sois]

Canes

[scharm]

Good Discussion.

 

Whats everyones' favorite fried chicken place?

 

I am partial to KFC but people here love Cain's as well.

 

It's hard to beat those secret herbs and spices but the product gets "fast food".    Take their formula and put it in a traditional sit down style restaraunt and it would be tough to beat.

 

My favorite is Greyhound Tavern in NKY.  They typically have a chicken night with all you can eat sides. 

[MichaelWeston]

KFC is so good, but I feel just gross after eating it. I have to get the mashed potatoes and they weigh me down for like half a day.

[Tigris]

I haven't eaten fried chicken for about 5 years. I did like KFC and of course the Cane Sauce at RC's. Maybe one day I'll have it again.