coup000 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Mongo, that snap count story is full of shit. If a team can't pick it up from the complete films of every game played, the dozen or so practice snaps show in the show isn't going to make the difference. Exactly, similar to that story that came out about St Louis playing well against SF because they knew their tendencies. Overblown, all teams know all the tendencies in the NFL including their own. Simple play charting by interns tells them that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Mongo, that snap count story is full of shit. If a team can't pick it up from the complete films of every game played, the dozen or so practice snaps show in the show isn't going to make the difference. It's what JJ Watt said, and while he concedes watching the preseason games helps too, he learned it watching Hard Knocks. Link to the article I didn't remember the scathing critique of winning football teams avoiding Hard Knocks, but Florio seems to think it doesn't help either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidey Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 It's what JJ Watt said, and while he concedes watching the preseason games helps too, he learned it watching Hard Knocks. Link to the article I didn't remember the scathing critique of winning football teams avoiding Hard Knocks, but Florio seems to think it doesn't help either. Well then that's Miami's fault. The organization has the last say in what can be aired. I would hope that the Bengals wouldn't let something like that be aired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeds Orange Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 This is very unscientific, because different teams have different talent and maturity levels. We have no idea how these teams would have done if they had not appeared on the show. Also, the point that some of the "elite" franchises have not participated is a valid one, so that skews things, as well. That being said, here are the results for the teams that have been on the show: 2001 Baltimore Ravens: 10-6, #5 seed, lost Division round 2002 Dallas Cowboys: 5-11 2007 Kansas City Chiefs: 4-12 2008 Dallas Cowboys: 9-7 2009 Cincinnati Bengals: 10-6, #4 seed, lost Wildcard round 2010 New York Jets: 11-5, #6 seed, lost AFC championship game 2012 Miami Dolphins: 7-9 i think, at best, the results are inconclusive, but I think they'd be better off not doing it. But since they are, I hope it helps them attract uncommitted, young fans around the country, increases merchandise sales, etc. Nothing builds a fan base and national recognition like winning, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Agreed, it reall is unscientific. The only thing I know is...if at the end of the season I feel like the Bengals underachieved, I will likely be blaming it on a lot of different things. Probably anything and everything except an appearance on Hard Knocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 So many contradictory things in this post but ill point out one for you. You say that owners might decide to do hard knocks to increase ticket sales. Yet you say there is no way hard knocks could help wins games. If hard knocks helps them get more sell outs and get more people in the games that could definitely give them more of a home field advantage (something we have struggled with lately) which could help them win games. So there's one way it could help. There are others as well including my previous example of motivating some of the younger guys. Would be interested in your response since you seem to think there are no positives that could lead to winning games. and its a far better way to fill the stadium than signing someone like TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Mongo, that snap count story is full of shit. If a team can't pick it up from the complete films of every game played, the dozen or so practice snaps show in the show isn't going to make the difference. nah, the snap count story is legit, but I also don't think its a huge deal. The info that a team would pick up is few and far between. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/11/watt-says-he-picked-up-dolphins-snap-count-from-hard-knocks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 This is very unscientific, because different teams have different talent and maturity levels. We have no idea how these teams would have done if they had not appeared on the show. Also, the point that some of the "elite" franchises have not participated is a valid one, so that skews things, as well. That being said, here are the results for the teams that have been on the show: 2001 Baltimore Ravens: 10-6, #5 seed, lost Division round 2002 Dallas Cowboys: 5-11 2007 Kansas City Chiefs: 4-12 2008 Dallas Cowboys: 9-7 2009 Cincinnati Bengals: 10-6, #4 seed, lost Wildcard round 2010 New York Jets: 11-5, #6 seed, lost AFC championship game 2012 Miami Dolphins: 7-9 i think, at best, the results are inconclusive, but I think they'd be better off not doing it. But since they are, I hope it helps them attract uncommitted, young fans around the country, increases merchandise sales, etc. Nothing builds a fan base and national recognition like winning, though. This will be Marvin's 3rd time and Zimmer's 3rd time. Seems kinda odd that if it's such a negative these coaches some how keep getting on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 1. The Bengals aren't "win a Super Bowl in 2013 or else" mode, I personally don't expect a Super Bowl victory in 2013, just a division title and home playoff win. 2. I pay good money for Jerseys, collectibles, Sunday Ticket etc. I want my fucking moneys worth of Bengals. An all access, 5 week, behind the scenes exclusive TV program centered around the Bengals is WAY more paramount to my yearly viewing/entertainment/cost-benefit equation than the POTENTIAL for them to be at a disadvantage at some point in one game during the season. For fucks sake if they know the snap count change it, its not quantum physics. While I'm too young to really remember the 88-89 Superbowl other than being sad because the Tiger team lost, The 2009 Hard Knocks series was arguably the greatest Bengals football TV experience I've ever had. I am beyond pumped for 2013, and unless you actually play on the team or are just a degenerate gambler I don't see how everyone else isn't excited over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Cincinnati Bengals @Bengals After speculation over the weekend, HBO,@NFLFilms and the #Bengals officially announce the premiere of Hard Knocks on Tue., Aug. 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 That doesn't make logistical sense. The object of training camp is to teach and prepare the team for the entire season. Teaching them things not to do on camera in the hopes it doesn't wind up on the cutting room floor is poor time management, and a total crapshoot. Utilizing every second of training camp to teach necessary skills/plays/techniques is a 100% fruitful endeavor. No one does Hard Knocks because it helps them on the field. Coaches don't seek out cameras in their business (except maybe the Ryan brothers). Teams do Hard Knocks because front offices want ticket and merchandise sales. Coaches then bust ass to minimize the damage that can be done as a result. I don't get why that is such a difficult point for people to agree on... Does anyone here believe either appearance on Hard Knocks was Marvin's idea? Do you think any head coach who has appeared on Hard Knocks actually asked to be the team chosen? Fans can be excited for the exposure, and the opportunity to watch more of their favorite team. Arguing there's no potential ill football effect, and potentially a positive effect from being on a reality TV show just doesn't make sense. Be excited your team is on the show. Watch it. Love it. That's fine. Just acknowledge it's maybe not a great football decision. There is documented evidence that the coaches will implement things in preseason so their first few opponents will have to prepare for it. There is no wasted time or effort. It is apart of the process already. This point refutes the negative that this puts them at a competitive advantage. If a team wants to supplement their preparation work with the HBO Hard Knocks episodes. Have at it. Arguing it has all the negatives but 0 positives makes zero sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 By the way: The NFL and NFL films for many many years have run programs like Game of the Week and Total Access. These often include cameras on the players in the game and also in the meeting rooms. It's a non issue. Back when Chad sent the box of Pepto to the Browns. They had exclusive footage all week of both Browns and Bengals as they prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 SiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL14m .@Bengals Defensive Coordinator Mike Zimmer is on with @BruceMurrayNFL & @RichGannon12 talking about #Bengals camp & #HardKnocks! #SXMSportsSiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL4m #Bengals DC Mike Zimmer: I'm not going to change my personality for #HardKnocks...we try and block the cameras out. #SXMSports #WhoDeySiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL3m #Bengals DC Mike Zimmer: #HardKnocks is great for the fans but sometimes the camera can portray you the wrong way. #SXMSports #WhoDey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Marvin Lewis on the Bengals second appearance on Hard Knocks HBO and NFL Films made it official on Monday by announcing Hard Knocks: Training Camp with the Cincinnati Bengals will debut on Aug. 6. Said Bengals coach Marvin Lewis about doing the show again in a release: "The feedback we got from our experience with Hard Knocks in 2009 was outstanding. Our fans enjoyed it tremendously and we're happy to try and provide that same experience again. Our fans love the NFL and they enjoy seeing things they don't normally get to see. We have some outstanding men, both as players and as people. They've got great charisma to go along with their football skills, and the Hard Knocks treatment allows for both to shine through.” “Some people say, 'Well, you won the division the last time you did this; is that a reason for doing it again?' I really don't think that matters or figures much into the decision. Every day, every time is a new experience. As coaches and players, we just go into it knowing we have to do our jobs to the utmost. We have a grueling schedule, and expectations are very high, particularly among ourselves. We've got to take a workmanlike attitude from the very start. Hard Knocks is another element you have to be prepared to deal with. The NFL Films people are totally professional, so that's not a worry, but it's not like a normal day. One thing I did see as a positive last time was exposing our players to another group of people who are working hard every day the way we need to work. The diligence and the effort of the people on-site is very impressive.” 24 minutes agohttp://sulia.com/channel/cincinnati-bengals/f/50c4a473-910c-4134-8bad-235b7b84995c/?source=twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Bengals debut Aug. 6 on HBO’s ‘Hard Knocks’ Enquirer football writer Joe Reedy posted this news Saturday, and HBO made it official today: The Bengals will be featured on the “Hard Knocks: Training Camp” 24/7 reality series for the second time in five years. The five-week “Hard Knocks: Training Camp with the Cincinnati Bengals” premieres 10 p.m. Tuesday, Aug. 6. The one-hour shows will repeat at 11 p.m. Wednesdays. The season finale will be Tuesday, Sept. 3. Training camp begins in late July at Paul Brown Stadium — instead of Georgetown KY, where the Bengals 2009 “Hard Knocks” was filmed. Here’s the link to Reedy’s story. And here’s the HBO release: HBO SPORTS®, NFL FILMS AND THE CINCINNATI BENGALS JOIN FORCES FOR A NEW SEASON OF THE ULTIMATE SPORTS REALITY SERIES WHEN HARD KNOCKS: TRAINING CAMP WITH THE CINCINNATI BENGALS, CHRONICLING THE RIGORS AND DAILY DEMANDS OF NFL TRAINING CAMP, DEBUTS TUESDAY, AUG. 6, EXCLUSIVELY ON HBO HBO Sports, NFL Films and the Cincinnati Bengals team up for an all-access look at what it takes to make it in the National Football League when HARD KNOCKS: TRAINING CAMP WITH THE CINCINNATI BENGALS debuts in August. The first sports-based reality series – and one of the fastest-turnaround programs on television – kicks off its five-episode eighth season, presented in HD, TUESDAY, AUG. 6 (10:00-11:00 p.m. ET/PT), exclusively on HBO. Other hour-long episodes debut subsequent Tuesdays at the same time, with an encore play every Wednesday at 11:00 p.m., culminating in the Sept. 3 season finale. “We are delighted that Hard Knocks will be returning this summer and excited for our return to the AFC North and the Cincinnati Bengals franchise,” says Ken Hershman, President, HBO Sports. “With playoff appearances three of the past four seasons, the Bengals have built a terrific young team and we are extremely grateful to both Coach Marvin Lewis and the entire organization for agreeing to participate. The series has become captivating television with appeal far beyond the hardcore football fan. Hard Knocks is a cornerstone franchise at HBO Sports.” “We’re thrilled to again work with both the Cincinnati Bengals and HBO Sports,” said Howard Katz, COO of NFL Films and NFL Senior Vice President of Broadcasting. “In particular, we want to thank Mike Brown for the trust he’s shown in NFL FILMS by allowing us access into Bengals training camp. This year’s Bengals squad provides us with a compelling combination of unique storylines: a veteran coaching staff, young superstars, high-profile free agents and an intriguing draft class. We can’t wait to see what will take place this year and look forward to collaborating with HBO which has been the perfect partner for us since Hard Knocks debuted 12 seasons ago.” The cinema verité series will focus on the daily lives and routines of players and coaches as the Cincinnati Bengals, who compete in the ultra-competitive AFC Norhtl, prepare for the 2013 NFL season. HARD KNOCKS: TRAINING CAMP WITH THE CINCINNATI BENGALS will chronicle eleventh-year head coach Marvin Lewis and an intriguing mix of high-profile veterans, emerging stars, free agents and rookie hopefuls throughout training camp and the four-game preseason schedule. Each week, players will experience drills, instruction, meetings and fun, while striving to prove they have what it takes to make the team and leave their mark in the NFL. “The feedback we got from our experience with Hard Knocks in 2009 was outstanding,” said Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis. “Our fans enjoyed it tremendously and we’re happy to try and provide that same experience again. Our fans love the NFL and they enjoy seeing things they don’t normally get to see. We have some outstanding men, both as players and as people. They’ve got great charisma to go along with their football skills, and the Hard Knocks treatment allows for both to shine through.” Lewis added: “Some people say, ‘Well, you won the division the last time you did this; is that a reason for doing it again?’ I really don’t think that matters or figures much into the decision. Every day, every time is a new experience. As coaches and players, we just go into it knowing we have to do our jobs to the utmost. We have a grueling schedule, and expectations are very high, particularly among ourselves. We’ve got to take a workmanlike attitude from the very start. Hard Knocks is another element you have to be prepared to deal with. The NFL Films people are totally professional, so that’s not a worry, but it’s not like a normal day. One thing I did see as a positive last time was exposing our players to another group of people who are working hard every day the way we need to work. The diligence and the effort of the people on-site is very impressive.” A 24-person NFL Films crew will live in the city of Cincinnati as the Bengals will hold camp at Paul Brown Stadium, shooting more than 1,250 hours of footage shot over the course of the series. Camera and sound crews will be given unencumbered access to the players’ and coaches’ meeting rooms, training rooms, living quarters and practice fields. Last summer’s edition of HARD KNOCKS marked the first time the series premiered on Tuesday nights and it proved to be a resounding success; the five-part prime-time series on the resurgent Miami Dolphins averaged 4.1 million viewers per episode making it the second most watched HARD KNOCKS in a decade. HARD KNOCKS launched with the Baltimore Ravens in 2001, followed by the Dallas Cowboys in 2002. The series resumed in 2007 with the Kansas City Chiefs, winning a Sports Emmy®. In 2008, the series returned to the Dallas Cowboys, receiving a second Sports Emmy® for production excellence. In 2009 HARD KNOCKS spotlighted the Cincinnati Bengals franchise and the show captured two more Sports Emmy® Awards for “Outstanding Edited Series/Anthology” and “Outstanding Post-Produced Audio/Sound.” In 2010 the New York Jets were featured and the series captured three Sports Emmys®, including the trophy for “Outstanding Edited Series/Anthology.” Last summer’s presentation with the Miami Dolphins earned the franchise an eighth Sports Emmy in the category of “Outstanding Post-Produced Audio/Sound.” Rolling Stone noted that Hard Knocks is, “A smash hit series” while Time Magazine called the program, “riveting.” Sports Illustrated.com said Hard Knocks is the “most entertaining reality show on TV.” NFL.com wrote: “…This is undoubtedly the greatest football program in the history of the television medium.” The Palm Beach Post concluded: “Hard Knocks can not only inspire, but teach. The show often includes coaches giving blunt analyses of players.” Business Week observed: “As a workplace drama, it ranks among the best on television….The thrust of the narrative is this: Only 53 spots are available on any given roster for an NFL team.” The New York Daily News said: “This show sizzled…proving it’s the gold standard of sports reality programming.” http://cincinnati.com/blogs/tv/2013/06/17/bengals-debut-aug-6-on-hbos-hard-knocks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 SiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL10m AUDIO:Mike Zimmer joined @BruceMurrayNFL & @RichGannon12 & discussed #HardKnocks returning to the #Bengals!#SXMSports http://bit.ly/18SjVYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 SiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL10m AUDIO:Mike Zimmer joined @BruceMurrayNFL & @RichGannon12 & discussed #HardKnocks returning to the #Bengals!#SXMSports http://bit.ly/18SjVYI many here remember Zimmer's talk with Tank Johnson in 2009. Zimmer says he meant to turn his mic off and forgot to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 many here remember Zimmer's talk with Tank Johnson in 2009. Zimmer says he meant to turn his mic off and forgot to. What did he say again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 What did he say again? I don't remember the exact details. I think they were just having a heart-to-heart in Zimmer's office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 There is documented evidence that the coaches will implement things in preseason so their first few opponents will have to prepare for it. There is no wasted time or effort. It is apart of the process already. This point refutes the negative that this puts them at a competitive advantage. If a team wants to supplement their preparation work with the HBO Hard Knocks episodes. Have at it. Arguing it has all the negatives but 0 positives makes zero sense. I agree. Who cares if other teams get to watch part of their camp? Like that's going to be more telling than weekly game film. I would be more worried about the HBO crew getting in the way and taking up the coaching staff's valuable time with certain segments since training camp is short and they are pressed for time already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I agree. Who cares if other teams get to watch part of their camp? Like that's going to be more telling than weekly game film. I would be more worried about the HBO crew getting in the way and taking up the coaching staff's valuable time with certain segments since training camp is short and they are pressed for time already. I'm sure the HBO crew will work hard to be unobtrusive. Not because they worry about hampering the Bengals coaching staff, but because they want players and coaches to forget they are even being filmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I don't remember the exact details. I think they were just having a heart-to-heart in Zimmer's office. IIRC it had to do with Tank being a positive influence on the young guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 SiriusXM NFL Radio @SiriusXMNFL3m Movin the Chains with @TimRyan99 and @PatKirwanCBS on the air right now! #Bengals Analyst Dave Lapham and @Patriots RB Shane Vereen join us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 Pete Damilatis @PFF_Pete2m FWIW, the 7 Hard Knocks teams have gone a combined 56-56 that season, with 3 playoff berths and 3 playoff wins. #Bengals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted June 17, 2013 Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I remember when Zimmer was with the Cowboys. There was a team meeting before the 3rd or 4th preseason game, with cuts coming the day after the game. He said to the players that some of them were going to be shocked when they found themselves unemployed if they didn't get their act together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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