Khatmandude Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 The Rats didn't die after Marvin...and they didn't die after Footman. The next schlep up...just kept going. Wayne Woodrow said "you win with people". There are people here. So is the system. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Regardless of how long he has been following Zimmer around, there is no guarantee he is going to be able to coach a top 10 defense. They way people just assume that there will be no drop off in the defense is just silly, Guenther has never been a coordinator at the pro level to think that he will come in and in his first season as a defensive coordinator coach a top 10 defense just doesn't make sense. There's also no guarantee that he won't coach a #1 defense. Motherfuckers (not you, necessarily) around here here have given up on Andy Dalton, but forget that this defense laid it's share of eggs in big moments. Mike Zimmer is probably the second best defensive coordinator this team has ever had, but don't act like that makes him a Hall of Famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 The Rats didn't die after Marvin...and they didn't die after Footman. The next schlep up...just kept going. Wayne Woodrow said "you win with people". There are people here. So is the system. Absolutely. And if Paul Guenther is an average defensive coordinator, this defense will propel him right on out of Cincinnati and into a head coaching position by 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Ok, so you're a pessimist. Have you even looked at Pauly's Resume? He was a college head coach at 25, and has worked his way up the professional ranks from the bottom up. He hasn't been following Zimmer, he's been mentored by Zimmer. He has the players and the training to be top 10. Since I'm senseless, how about we bet a 100 bucks on it? Now, here's the deal. We send the money to Go, with this understanding, at the end of the regular season, we look at the rankings by yards and points and average. If average is 11-32 in the league, You get your money back and Go gives mine to the winner of the NFL whole season Pickem's. 1-10, and it's your cash. Whadda you think? I'm not saying that Guenther can't coach a top 10 defense this year, but I think it's a bit premature to assume that just because he was Zimmer's right hand guy for 6 years he will automatically fill his shoes without a glitch. If that was the case then Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniels, and Eric Mangenuis should have all won at least one Super Bowl by now because Bellicheck won 3 and they were all on his staff so by the process of osmosis they should be HOF coaches. right?? As for the bet, why I would get the cash if they finish 1-10? I'm taking the side that they won't finish in the top 10. As for giving the money to Go to hold..yeah right..with weed now legal in Denver that 200 will be up in smoke before training camp breaks...LOL. We can just agree to disagree and leave it at that. For me the one of the biggest story lines of this season for the Bengals will be how will the defense adjust to life AZ(After Zimmer). It's one thing to assume that everything will be all good, but when the bullets start flying no one knows how Guenther will react to being the go to guy. Being the HC of the Univ. of Phoenix's flag football team doesn't translate to being a DC in the NFL. There are many unknowns about Guenther, like how will he handle mid game adjustments. Also, can the offense carry the load and be the foundation of this team, because if there is some drop off in the defense then the offense will have to pick up the slack. I think we missed a golden opportunity to win a championship when Zimmer was here as our DC; the last two years I can say we had a Championship level defense but offense was so inept that the defense could only carry this team but so far. Now that Zimmer is gone, who is going to carry the weight? I think Hue is up to the task, but is Dalton the guy? Based on what I've seen, I don't think so. I would love to be proven wrong but, Dalton's playoff meltdowns don't give me much confidence he can put this franchise on his shoulders and win meaningful games late in the season or in the post season. Only time will tell but, after having everything setup beautifully this year with a playoff game at home and the worst team in the playoffs coming to PBS and still losing...badly..well yeah I guess I am a pessimist..or pissed off. Either way I'm not totally sold this team just picking up where they left off and going back to the playoffs, success in the NFL doesn't come easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 There's also no guarantee that he won't coach a #1 defense. Motherfuckers (not you, necessarily) around here here have given up on Andy Dalton, but forget that this defense laid it's share of eggs in big moments. Mike Zimmer is probably the second best defensive coordinator this team has ever had, but don't act like that makes him a Hall of Famer. I would give Zimmer credit for the 3 consecutive playoff appearances before I would give Marvin or any other coach credit because it was the defense that was molded in his image that lead those teams to the playoffs and the division title. A defense can only overcome so much and with Dalton turning the ball over a such a high rate, going 3 and out, etc...let's just say they performed admirably in the playoffs despite the offense not showing...at all. Before Zimmer was on the staff the Bengals went to the playoffs once in 18 years, when he was here they went 4 times in 6 years. Least do the math on that, without Zimmer you have 6% chance of going to the playoffs and with him you have a 67% chance..\ Now when they got to the playoffs the offense and special teams crapped the bed by turning the ball over and just not executing routine plays..you can't blame the defense for those playoff loses..imo. I expect Zimmer to have great success in Minny, he's got a talented team and Norv Turner running his offense. If they can limit turnovers and get some decent QB play, they will be a playoff team. Hell an eight win team won their division so it's not like they are playing in NFC West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'm not saying that Guenther can't coach a top 10 defense this year, but I think it's a bit premature to assume that just because he was Zimmer's right hand guy for 6 years he will automatically fill his shoes without a glitch. If that was the case then Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniels, and Eric Mangenuis should have all won at least one Super Bowl by now because Bellicheck won 3 and they were all on his staff so by the process of osmosis they should be HOF coaches. right?? As for the bet, why I would get the cash if they finish 1-10? I'm taking the side that they won't finish in the top 10. As for giving the money to Go to hold..yeah right..with weed now legal in Denver that 200 will be up in smoke before training camp breaks...LOL. We can just agree to disagree and leave it at that. For me the one of the biggest story lines of this season for the Bengals will be how will the defense adjust to life AZ(After Zimmer). It's one thing to assume that everything will be all good, but when the bullets start flying no one knows how Guenther will react to being the go to guy. Being the HC of the Univ. of Phoenix's flag football team doesn't translate to being a DC in the NFL. There are many unknowns about Guenther, like how will he handle mid game adjustments. Also, can the offense carry the load and be the foundation of this team, because if there is some drop off in the defense then the offense will have to pick up the slack. I think we missed a golden opportunity to win a championship when Zimmer was here as our DC; the last two years I can say we had a Championship level defense but offense was so inept that the defense could only carry this team but so far. Now that Zimmer is gone, who is going to carry the weight? I think Hue is up to the task, but is Dalton the guy? Based on what I've seen, I don't think so. I would love to be proven wrong but, Dalton's playoff meltdowns don't give me much confidence he can put this franchise on his shoulders and win meaningful games late in the season or in the post season. Only time will tell but, after having everything setup beautifully this year with a playoff game at home and the worst team in the playoffs coming to PBS and still losing...badly..well yeah I guess I am a pessimist..or pissed off. Either way I'm not totally sold this team just picking up where they left off and going back to the playoffs, success in the NFL doesn't come easy. 1st, your cash goes to the pool winner if they finish in the top ten, and I get mine back, or vice versa. Second, I damn sure trust go way more than I do your ass, so it's the only way I'd bet you. And third, get a set of balls to go behind all that mouth. You can talk shit, but I guess your ass can't cash that check, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 The Rats didn't die after Marvin...and they didn't die after Footman. The next schlep up...just kept going. Wayne Woodrow said "you win with people". There are people here. So is the system. Also when the Seahawks lost their DC to the Jags, this year, their defense got better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 1st, your cash goes to the pool winner if they finish in the top ten, and I get mine back, or vice versa. Second, I damn sure trust go way more than I do your ass, so it's the only way I'd bet you. And third, get a set of balls to go behind all that mouth. You can talk shit, but I guess your ass can't cash that check, huh? Well why would I give your money away if I beat you in a bet..sorry but if I'm going to risk losing my money I want more in return then just getting back what I put up in the first place..I want to gain something financially so how about we make it a real bet, like 500 dollars and we use PayPal, winner gets a grand? As for me "getting a set of balls", "talking shit" and all of that other false tough guy bravado bullshit you are spewing...Really?? I didn't realize that expressing one's opinion was talking shit. Calm down old man, my balls work just fine(thanks for caring) and I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else on this board. I already told you are are too old to be carrying on like that, you're going to have a heart attack one of these days if you don't take it easy. Make sure you eat your oatmeal and drink some grape juice before you read my post...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 That escalated quickly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 There's also no guarantee that he won't coach a #1 defense. Motherfuckers (not you, necessarily) around here here have given up on Andy Dalton, but forget that this defense laid it's share of eggs in big moments. Mike Zimmer is probably the second best defensive coordinator this team has ever had, but don't act like that makes him a Hall of Famer. I'm curious who you would have ahead of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I am guessing LeBeau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'm curious who you would have ahead of him? Pauly "MF'in" Guenther.....that's who! Preemptively, at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I am guessing LeBeau. Not while he was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 Not while he was here. wasn't LeBeau the DC for both Super Bowl teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 wasn't LeBeau the DC for both Super Bowl teams? No, he was the DB coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvilleBengal Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 No, he was the DB coach. wasn't LeBeau the DC for both Super Bowl teams? You are both right, on different points. Bengals1181 is correct, Dick LeBeau was DC of the Bengals in the 80s--1984 to be exact. He was DC from 1984-1992, but Jason is also correct as well, Dick LeBeau was hired by the Cincinnati Bengals in 1980 as a defensive backs coach. As you both know very well, that is where he developed the zone blitz scheme that so many defenses (even ours) use to this day. As for the superbowls, LeBeau was just a DB coach for the one in 81, but he was the DC when the Bengals went back in '88. Hope that covers up a few things. So yeah, in a way, LeBeau was the best Bengals DC we had, with Zimmer a very close second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I forgot that LeBeau was promoted when Wyche took over as head coach. But LeBeau's defenses never finished better than 7th, finished 8th one other time, the rest they never finished higher than 13th and averaged 18th out of 28 teams while he was DC. Hank Bullough was DC in 1983 when we finished #1. Our worst finish under Zimmer was 15th, with 4 top 10 and 2 top 5 defenses. Zimmer was our best DC IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I forgot that LeBeau was promoted when Wyche took over as head coach. But LeBeau's defenses never finished better than 7th, finished 8th one other time, the rest they never finished higher than 13th and averaged 18th out of 28 teams while he was DC. Hank Bullough was DC in 1983 when we finished #1. Our worst finish under Zimmer was 15th, with 4 top 10 and 2 top 5 defenses. Zimmer was our best DC IMO. it's such a subjective discussion. was the talent (players) each had to work with equal? what about the staffs each were provided? we've never been among the biggest spenders on talent, but we've leveled that gap considerably during the marvin lewis era. there's a lot to take into consideration. bottom line...we were pretty fortunate to have either of these guys as DC. each are at the top of their craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 it's such a subjective discussion. was the talent (players) each had to work with equal? what about the staffs each were provided? we've never been among the biggest spenders on talent, but we've leveled that gap considerably during the marvin lewis era. there's a lot to take into consideration. bottom line...we were pretty fortunate to have either of these guys as DC. each are at the top of their craft. There was some talent on those defenses. In 84 they had Browner, Edwards, Krumrie, Reggie Williams, Glenn Cameron, Breeden and Bobbie Kemp. In 86 they added Billups and Fulcher. 85 was essentially the same. In 87 Browner out, Skow in, Breeden out and Horton in. In 88 they added Eric Thomas and Willcots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 There was some talent on those defenses. In 84 they had Browner, Edwards, Krumrie, Reggie Williams, Glenn Cameron, Breeden and Bobbie Kemp. In 86 they added Billups and Fulcher. 85 was essentially the same. In 87 Browner out, Skow in, Breeden out and Horton in. In 88 they added Eric Thomas and Willcots. it's not that they were devoid of talent, i just think top to bottom we're better invested than we were then, and being more willing to spend has had a lot to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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