sparky151 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Are you saying you weren't surprised at this series or events? I sure was- and I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I was surprised both at the size of the Brown's offer to Hawkins and that the Bengals matched it. If I were running the team I would have let Andrew leave though probably not made a decision til after at least Sanzenbacher was re-signed. If we were more ambitious in free agency at WR, we could try for Jacoby Jones or Jerome Simpson who won't be terribly expensive or Julian Edelman who will cost more. Jones or Simpson won't get as much as Hawkins got. Or we could just go with the WRs we have (plus Dane) and use the money at another position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zins30 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Did Mays and Tate just get 1 year deals? I assume Tate's deal was one year since the "news" immediately flowed (not sure how solid this "news" is) that we'd still look for a return guy in the draft right after he re-signed. No idea about Mays though. Guenther had him under his tutelage so who knows if he sees a long term future or not for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I assume Tate's deal was one year since the "news" immediately flowed (not sure how solid this "news" is) that we'd still look for a return guy in the draft right after he re-signed. No idea about Mays though. Guenther had him under his tutelage so who knows if he sees a long term future or not for him. I haven't seen anything re: contract length for either player… the Bengals may announce it today. I think they threw in a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles backpack for Mays, and that sealed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 this continues to be....wow. I respect you too much to say what I really think. Two teams can't do the same thing and one be right and one be wrong. Feel free to say whatever you'd like. I will stand by my point that comparing two teams that are coming off of a decade of huge success with multiple super bowls to a teams with a 3 year run of modest success makes no sense. I doubt you'll spend the time to look and neither will I, but I am pretty sure Pitt and NE weren't letting core guys leave when they were still building up their teams. All the "tough decisions" came after they had sustained success and were usually older guys past their prime (Steelers did seem to have a thing with letting your WRs go though). It is nowhere near the same and it's a poor analogy. The Bengals of 2014 should be compared to the Steelers and Patriots of 2004/5, what those teams did in the late 2000s and the early part of this decade is not comparable to the current Bengals team in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal27 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Wow, I'm pretty shocked if that news is true. Makes my "they're cheap" argument look stupid. Makes the "they don't think he's worth it" argument look stupid as well. Worst of all, makes themselves look pretty stupid, now that we know they are at least considering matching this offer the 2nd round tender was clearly the correct choice. They just forced themselves to match the very top of the market. Baby, shush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 They have won multiple superbowls, we haven't even won a playoff game. We are not them and we are still building to try to be them. The analogy doesn't hold up. That said, overpaying everyne to try to get better isn't the answer either. So whom should they emulate in their strategy of player personnel and development, coup, the teams that have won consistently, or the teams that haven't? You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 So whom should they emulate in their strategy of player personnel and development, coup, the teams that have won consistently, or the teams that haven't? You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth, here. How did teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and NE (to a smaller extent) end up having to do cap purges every few years? We are nowhere close to ever having to cut anyone for cap reasons. And unless we start drafting 2 pro bowlers a year we never will be. Fact is, we aren't operating like those teams. Everyone of those teams loaded up their caps and made runs when they saw windows, not with big money outside free agents generally but with someone, someone like say a young very good DE. Or a young very good backup LT. They lost guys after runs of sustained success not while trying to build up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 How did teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and NE (to a smaller extent) end up having to do cap purges every few years? We are nowhere close to ever having to cut anyone for cap reasons. And unless we start drafting 2 pro bowlers a year we never will be. Fact is, we aren't operating like those teams. Everyone of those teams loaded up their caps and made runs when they saw windows, not with big money outside free agents generally but with someone, someone like say a young very good DE. Or a young very good backup LT. They lost guys after runs of sustained success not while trying to build up to them. Bro, it's not worth replying to you, you are currently the osmium of this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 How did teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore and NE (to a smaller extent) end up having to do cap purges every few years? We are nowhere close to ever having to cut anyone for cap reasons. And unless we start drafting 2 pro bowlers a year we never will be. Fact is, we aren't operating like those teams. Everyone of those teams loaded up their caps and made runs when they saw windows, not with big money outside free agents generally but with someone, someone like say a young very good DE. Or a young very good backup LT. They lost guys after runs of sustained success not while trying to build up to them. They have to purge their older vets because they gave them huge extensions while they were core players and restructured them multiple times to kick the can down the road. The reason for their success is not their financial management. And be honest, a "young very good DE and a young very good backup LT" are NOT core players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 They have to purge their older vets because they gave them huge extensions while they were core players and restructured them multiple times to kick the can down the road. The reason for their success is not their financial management. And be honest, a "young very good DE and a young very good backup LT" are NOT core players. Those huge backloaded extensions allowed them to keep those teams together, so yes their financial management is a big reason for their success. Can't ever get to that point without very good drafting however, which we've seemed to nail lately. But that's not enough on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I don't recall Hawk doing anything in the Chargers game either. Since this is why Dalton sucks, it should work for Hawk too. Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 this continues to be....wow. drama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Those huge backloaded extensions allowed them to keep those teams together, so yes their financial management is a big reason for their success. Can't ever get to that point without very good drafting however, which we've seemed to nail lately. But that's not enough on its own. Why do you believe the Bengals approach is preventing them from keeping the team together? All of the most important players on the team are securely under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I doubt you'll spend the time to look and neither will I, but I am pretty sure Pitt and NE weren't letting core guys leave when they were still building up their teams... Off the top of my head... Lawyer Tillman, Asante Samuel, Damien Woody, Ty Law, Plaxico Burress, Antwan Randle El, and Alan Faneca. The only player the Bengals have "lost" is Michael Johnson and everyone in the world knew that was coming. I'd like to see the Bengals re-sign Anthony Collins, but keep it in perspective. It took him 5 years to get on the field. 99% of casual football fans have never even heard his name. If the WORST case is it means putting Whitworth back at left tackle, is that really worth making Anthony Collins the highest paid lineman on the team? Fuck, dude. Andre Smith makes $6mil/year and is exponentially better. Andrew Whitworth makes $5mil this year and he's the second best left tackle the team's ever had. Many people here seem to have forgotten that Collins wasn't starting at left tackle because he was a huge upgrade over Whitworth. He was playing because Whitworth was the only healthy option at left guard. You can't go blow a hole in the cap for the luxury of having a third offensive tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Off the top of my head... Lawyer Tillman, Asante Samuel, Damien Woody, Ty Law, Plaxico Burress, Antwan Randle El, and Alan Faneca. The only player the Bengals have "lost" is Michael Johnson and everyone in the world knew that was coming. I'd like to see the Bengals re-sign Anthony Collins, but keep it in perspective. It took him 5 years to get on the field. 99% of casual football fans have never even heard his name. If the WORST case is it means putting Whitworth back at left tackle, is that really worth making Anthony Collins the highest paid lineman on the team? Fuck, dude. Andre Smith makes $6mil/year and is exponentially better. Andrew Whitworth makes $5mil this year and he's the second best left tackle the team's ever had.Many people here seem to have forgotten that Collins wasn't starting at left tackle because he was a huge upgrade over Whitworth. He was playing because Whitworth was the only healthy option at left guard. You can't go blow a hole in the cap for the luxury of having a third offensive tackle. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Why do you believe the Bengals approach is preventing them from keeping the team together? All of the most important players on the team are securely under control. I think we disagree that MJ wasn't one of the most important players on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think we disagree that MJ wasn't one of the most important players on the team. That's true. What's also true is that you are the one who disagrees with front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 is there anything official yet on AC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Has there been anything on Vinny Rey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 is there anything official yet on AC? no. He was flying to Tampa for a visit. Seems its down to Tampa, Washington, and Cincinnati. Has there been anything on Vinny Rey? not a peep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Off the top of my head... Lawyer Tillman, Asante Samuel, Damien Woody, Ty Law, Plaxico Burress, Antwan Randle El, and Alan Faneca. The only player the Bengals have "lost" is Michael Johnson and everyone in the world knew that was coming. I'd like to see the Bengals re-sign Anthony Collins, but keep it in perspective. It took him 5 years to get on the field. 99% of casual football fans have never even heard his name. If the WORST case is it means putting Whitworth back at left tackle, is that really worth making Anthony Collins the highest paid lineman on the team? Fuck, dude. Andre Smith makes $6mil/year and is exponentially better. Andrew Whitworth makes $5mil this year and he's the second best left tackle the team's ever had. Many people here seem to have forgotten that Collins wasn't starting at left tackle because he was a huge upgrade over Whitworth. He was playing because Whitworth was the only healthy option at left guard. You can't go blow a hole in the cap for the luxury of having a third offensive tackle. Agree with most of your points. As for the guys you mentioned: Lawyer Milloy- pretty good example. He was in mid career and super bowl MVP. Interestingly, they cut him because he wouldn't restructure. Not sure exactly what the story there was. Samuel and Woody were both a part of 2 super bowl winning teams before they left, so they don't really fit Ty Law was on 3 super bowl winning teams, again doesn't really fit the profile As for Plax and Randle El- they both won super bowls, but yes they were allowed to leave pretty much in their prime. It does seem the Steelers have a thing for letting WRs leave pretty much universally, besides Ward and now Brown. (Also Randle el is a stretch to even include on this list) Faneca was with the Steelers for 10 years, so when he left he was on downside of his career, but still played well. Also won one super bowl with them I still think my point stands that these 2 organizations weren't letting good young players walk while they were building up to what they became in the aughts. We haven't much either, but we should be in an aggressive improving stage not a sustain/churn phase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think we disagree that MJ wasn't one of the most important players on the team. Dalton, Green, Burfict, Geno, Hall, Andre, Whitworth, and Dunlap are all more important than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted March 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Dalton, Green, Burfict, Geno, Hall, Andre, Whitworth, and Dunlap are all more important than him. Is there a limit on the number of important players you can/should have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Is there a limit on the number of important players you can/should have? Yes, it's called the salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 Is there a limit on the number of important players you can/should have? There is a limit on the number of important players you can/should afford. MJ is a good, even great player. But we already locked up another good/great, younger player at his position for less money than MJ commanded. If we were bereft at DE, MJ would have been more important to the Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.