MichaelWeston Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I hear this phrase a lot. "Make this country great once again." I have not given it a ton of thought but it seems that there are very few things that this country does now that are not better then the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Numbers| Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I hear this phrase a lot. "Make this country great once again." I have not given it a ton of thought but it seems that there are very few things that this country does now that are not better then the past. It's been tossed around so much that it loses it's meaning if there ever was a meaning. Very subjective on what makes a country great. Power, morality, industry, etc... I'd like to hear what others think would make a country great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Off the top of my head, two things come to mind that seem different from when I was growing up. The decline of the family unit and the loss of manufacturing. People were expected to, and wanted to marry, have a family and a decent job so you could buy a home and build a life. Those things were possible for pretty much everyone who was willing to work. Not so much anymore. Out of wedlock births, divorce, low paying service sector jobs and government assistance seem to be the norm these days. The life people used to expect, and work for seems lost to a need for instant gratification, and despair at the realization that opportunities simply aren't there like they used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Many of these things are personal values for you, which you are entitled to for sure. Marriage and Kids: People don't want to marry or have kids early now because their lives are better not doing so. It's just not their goal. They get to travel and enjoy all kinds of wonderful things like Jet Skis and dating alot of different people. I would say that's vastly improved from marrying the wrong person at 21 and then growing up and realizing you married the wrong person and sleeping in different beds and spending your life focused on raising 2.5 kids who will probably hate you as teenagers. At some point an entire generation said, "Why would I want to do that, that sounds miserable." They figured it out. We have an entire generation that are elderly now, that were raised by a generation that had to live through the depression and war. That left them hard and grumpy, even the nice ones and for the most part they were pretty terrible parents even though they provided great things for their kids with a very authoritarian father and a submissive mother. This stunted alot of the emotional growth for children of the 40s-50's but kids now are finally starting to understand that that authoritarian father and submissive mother style is a pretty miserable way to raise a well balanced kid. Are out of wedlock birth numbers up? (Holy shit they have....wow....Point you. http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/1996/08/childrenfamilies-akerlof Although for the most part I know many people who have chosen to have children and not get married. I do agree it's probably better to go the other way. I completely agree with your point on manufacturing as a means to a strong middle class, although I myself don't fully understand that but across the board our standard of living is much better then it's ever been. Even many of the poor have iphones and flatscreens. Cars to get them to work etc. Do you have more numbers on this? "Out of wedlock births, divorce, low paying service sector jobs and government assistance seem to be the norm these days." I think the government assistance stance for one is an overblown republican stance. Your last sentence is interesting. I find myself disagreeing and agreeing with it completely. I don't think that the opportunities are not there, anyone can go to school and learn a trade and make a good living. The life of working at one job for your entire life is gone though. I don't blame instant gratification. I blame technology making jobs obsolete, which is the market isn't it? Aren't you for the market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Off the top of my head, two things come to mind that seem different from when I was growing up. The decline of the family unit and the loss of manufacturing. People were expected to, and wanted to marry, have a family and a decent job so you could buy a home and build a life. Those things were possible for pretty much everyone who was willing to work. Not so much anymore. Out of wedlock births, divorce, low paying service sector jobs and government assistance seem to be the norm these days. The life people used to expect, and work for seems lost to a need for instant gratification, and despair at the realization that opportunities simply aren't there like they used to be. This is going to shock you. I agree with this. Here is the problem though. We have enacted policy that has created it. The off-shoring of manufacturing through free trade policies that forced women into the workplace (which I'm not suggesting women working is bad, just that being in a situation where they HAVE to work so the family can survive is the problem). Regan's union busting that continues to this day (You know Scott Walker said if he were president he would bust all unions right?). My grandpa worked for GE working on plane engines downtown as a member of the UAW and was able to raise a family with 4 kids and a wife on a good union salary.... yet today we have people lambasting and demonizing unions. There is a very direct correlation in the downfall of wages and downfall of union membership. Opportunities arent there because we let the ruling class run a muck and only we can take that back because even if some benevolent leader decided to fight for us unless we stop blaming each other and put blame on who did this to us and why and what we actually need to do about it, it will continue or get worse, because even FDR couldnt have done many of the things he had done without the popular support for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 This is going to shock you. I agree with this. Here is the problem though. We have enacted policy that has created it. The off-shoring of manufacturing through free trade policies that forced women into the workplace (which I'm not suggesting women working is bad, just that being in a situation where they HAVE to work so the family can survive is the problem). Regan's union busting that continues to this day (You know Scott Walker said if he were president he would bust all unions right?). My grandpa worked for GE working on plane engines downtown as a member of the UAW and was able to raise a family with 4 kids and a wife on a good union salary.... yet today we have people lambasting and demonizing unions. There is a very direct correlation in the downfall of wages and downfall of union membership. Opportunities arent there because we let the ruling class run a muck and only we can take that back because even if some benevolent leader decided to fight for us unless we stop blaming each other and put blame on who did this to us and why and what we actually need to do about it, it will continue or get worse, because even FDR couldnt have done many of the things he had done without the popular support for it. JAMIE B FOR PRESIDENT. I agree with it all. Lets create minor fights over abortion-guns-gay marriage-weed etc. While the real things we should be fighting for at the top get ignored. Rich win. Poor and Middle class lose. Rich think they win because they are smarter and deserve it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 It's called "Bread and Circus" for a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 This is going to shock you. I agree with this. Here is the problem though. We have enacted policy that has created it. The off-shoring of manufacturing through free trade policies that forced women into the workplace (which I'm not suggesting women working is bad, just that being in a situation where they HAVE to work so the family can survive is the problem). Regan's union busting that continues to this day (You know Scott Walker said if he were president he would bust all unions right?). My grandpa worked for GE working on plane engines downtown as a member of the UAW and was able to raise a family with 4 kids and a wife on a good union salary.... yet today we have people lambasting and demonizing unions. There is a very direct correlation in the downfall of wages and downfall of union membership. Opportunities arent there because we let the ruling class run a muck and only we can take that back because even if some benevolent leader decided to fight for us unless we stop blaming each other and put blame on who did this to us and why and what we actually need to do about it, it will continue or get worse, because even FDR couldnt have done many of the things he had done without the popular support for it. Exactly. Amazing that the stagnation in wages and employment coincide with the reduction of union representation. But hey, convince them that Gays are bad, blacks are criminals, hispanics are invading, muslims are trying to introduce sharia law, any gun regulation is an assault on their constitutional rights, and the Left hates Christians and the will applaud their slow descent into Serfdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Exactly. Amazing that the stagnation in wages and employment coincide with the reduction of union representation. But hey, convince them that Gays are bad, blacks are criminals, hispanics are invading, muslims are trying to introduce sharia law, any gun regulation is an assault on their constitutional rights, and the Left hates Christians and the will applaud their slow descent into Serfdom. Great point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Unions are needed, but they also need to get their shit together. The other side of unions that is bad is like my friends dad growing up. He was a janitor who cleaned 2 offices a night, just 2, and he was making $24.00 an hour... In 1982! The postal workers union is much the same. They WAY overpay people doing menial jobs, and it is ridiculous. I grew up in a union family, UAW was my dad's union, and they did many great things for their people, but they also abused their power. There are 2 sides to every story, but the end result is the same... the 1% keep getting richer and the poor get poorer. The union busting also coincided with outsourcing... the captains of industry wanted to pay less wages and line their pockets more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Unions are needed, but they also need to get their shit together. The other side of unions that is bad is like my friends dad growing up. He was a janitor who cleaned 2 offices a night, just 2, and he was making $24.00 an hour... In 1982! The postal workers union is much the same. They WAY overpay people doing menial jobs, and it is ridiculous. I grew up in a union family, UAW was my dad's union, and they did many great things for their people, but they also abused their power. There are 2 sides to every story, but the end result is the same... the 1% keep getting richer and the poor get poorer. The union busting also coincided with outsourcing... the captains of industry wanted to pay less wages and line their pockets more. Exactly. When Dayton still had GM factories, everyone called them Generous Motors. People bragged about how they could read books all day, sleep on the job and so forth, while making double or triple what everyone else made. They still went on strike regularly for more. Of course management was giving themselves ridiculous salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes. They had a goose laying golden eggs and both sides strangled that fucker until it was barely breathing, and along came Honda and Toyota selling better cars for less money and are standing on it's neck to this day. So cities like Dayton and Detroit start spiraling backwards, because it's not just those factories that shut down, it's all the businesses who sold to employees of those factories. Dominos fall, cities go to hell, golden goose dies because both sides were too greedy and short sided to see that it couldn't be sustained, rather than make decisions that would be good for both the company and the employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Skins Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 JAMIE B FOR PRESIDENT. I agree with it all. Lets create minor fights over abortion-guns-gay marriage-weed etc. While the real things we should be fighting for at the top get ignored. Rich win. Poor and Middle class lose. Rich think they win because they are smarter and deserve it too. Jamie would never get my vote, he is too clueless. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyInDC Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Jamie would never get my vote, he is too clueless. :) you spelled clooless wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Exactly. When Dayton still had GM factories, everyone called them Generous Motors. People bragged about how they could read books all day, sleep on the job and so forth, while making double or triple what everyone else made. They still went on strike regularly for more. Of course management was giving themselves ridiculous salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes. They had a goose laying golden eggs and both sides strangled that fucker until it was barely breathing, and along came Honda and Toyota selling better cars for less money and are standing on it's neck to this day. So cities like Dayton and Detroit start spiraling backwards, because it's not just those factories that shut down, it's all the businesses who sold to employees of those factories. Dominos fall, cities go to hell, golden goose dies because both sides were too greedy and short sided to see that it couldn't be sustained, rather than make decisions that would be good for both the company and the employees. The problem is that most of that mythology you talk about is simply that, just like the mythology of the welfare queen. I was a co-op for GM, and 95+% of the folks that worked there gave a good days work for their pay. The problem then and now, is that if you can convince the masses that what's good for them is bad, they will gladly accept the news and support you in taking away their rights. They tell you they are creating "right to work" laws, which is simply the right to work for less. In 1980, the largest employer in the U.S. was GM, and the average employee made 40 dollars in wage and benefits, and today, it's Wal-Mart, and the average employee makes 9 dollars and we, the American people, pay their benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 "In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, such as 'right to work.' It is a law to rob us of our civil rights and job rights. It is supported by Southern segregationists who are trying to keep us from achieving our civil rights and our right of equal job opportunity. Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining by which unions have improved wages and working conditions of everyone.Wherever these laws have been passed, wages are lower, job opportunities are fewer and there are no civil rights. We do not intend to let them do this to us. We demand this fraud be stopped. Our weapon is our vote." - Martian Luther King Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Martian Luther King Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 hahaha damn it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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