It all comes down to coaching

[MULLY]

[quote name='Actium' post='556371' date='Sep 24 2007, 01:37 PM']This team needs to win...not so much for the season, but to SAVE THE SITE!

We're turning on each other, pessimistic prognosticators taking credit for predicting failure, rosy-colored glasses distributed en masse by the homers, tempers short, jokes misread...nothing cures all that like winning.

Now, group hug [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/6.gif[/img][/quote]

[img]http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/25/oldlady02co4.jpg[/img]

You're 100% right though, man. Losing tears this place to shreds for a few days after.
MULLY

[BengalSIS]

I haven't given up on coaching, but you do have to wonder why our ST can't stop the runner, our return teams have bad blocking (it's not all the runner's fault),.

Why we waste timouts in the first half, make many mental mistakes at crucial times..(anyone notice we TOOK OURSELVES out of FG range at least 2 times tonight with penalties), can't manage the clock.

We are not looking very disciplined, and a disciplined team plays using instincts, and are more consistant.

Granted new players filling in for injured starters will mess that up, but come on...we are at the bottom. You can't tell me we have the worst personnel.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='556368' date='Sep 23 2007, 11:28 PM']My bad, Old. I'm just really really hot right now about this team not producing more. Chad said it best last week. "If they score 51 we need to score 52." It really is that simple of a concept and the Bengals have the players to do that. It just kills me to watch these guys, here comes my homerism again, who I think are the best out there, and they just can't get it together. There's always something, whether it's a botched kick or a fumble........always something. Can't these fucking guys keep it together for 60 minutes without imploding on themselves? Fuck me, I'm tired of watching them lose when they shouldn't.
MULLY
That's right, I am a touch older than you[/quote]



No worries man. I`ve been called something by almost everyone here.

I had family here from out of state, and was trying to sneak and watch the game.
Didn`t want to be rude or anything. So I didn`t get to see the whole game.


Anyway, from what I did see and what I have read, I think the Defense was servicable today.
All things considered, they did a good job against a top Offense, in their house.

The Offense, ecspecially the running game, surprised me today.
I know Carson threw for a lot of yards, but he had an off game.
Anytime he throws more INT`s than TD`s, it`s an off game.

I also couldn`t believe that he completed 27 passes, and 21 of them
were to TJ and Chad, who had 1 TD catch between them.
We really need Chris Henry back. A healthy Willie and Ghiciuc
wouldn`t hurt either. Does anyone know what happened to
Stacy Andrews ? We had a back-up Center, a back-up RT,
moved Whitworth and put Levi in his spot. It`s like thety
were playing Musical O-line, or something.

The Special teams were horrible again. But they are severly under-manned.

I`m not using injuries as an excuse like it`s ok. I just bring them up
as a way of understanding. I think as banged up as this team is,
for them to be in it until the bitter end, isn`t an indictment on
Marvin and his staffs "bad" coaching. I think points to good coaching.
But I`m a homer . . . that`s what I do.

[MULLY]

Yeah, clock management at the end of the game is not something I've been very happy about with Marvin. I understand we need to score but we also need to control that damn clock. That last series where we scored, God damn that was quick. Slice and dice down the field and leave them with 3 minutes to get their shit together.

There was a game against the Steelers, maybe the season before last, that really rattled me cage. I think it was the game when Turdburglar was wearing the glove because of his injured thumb, pussy ass I might add. That day Big Bengina was playing above himself and had thrown for damn near close to 400 yards or more. We strolled down field in like milliseconds and scored and left them with something like 2 or 3 minutes on the clock. I'm sorry, no matter how inept Turdburglar is when he's already thrown for 400+ yards that day you pretty much have to assume he's going to be able to complete a few passes. He was working them back up the field and it scared the bejeezus outta me. I don't remember exactly what happened but they didn't score and we won. I just thought it was really really poor clock management giving them the ball back so soon. Anyone remember that one?

[MULLY]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='556383' date='Sep 24 2007, 01:55 PM'][b]We had a back-up Center, a back-up RT,
moved Whitworth and put Levi in his spot. It`s like thety
were playing Musical O-line, or something.[/b]
The Special teams were horrible again. But they are severly under-manned.

I`m not using injuries as an excuse like it`s ok. I just bring them up
as a way of understanding. I think as banged up as this team is,
for them to be in it until the bitter end, isn`t an indictment on
Marvin and his staffs "bad" coaching. I think points to good coaching.
But I`m a homer . . . that`s what I do.[/quote]

Yeah, same shit as last season. I thought we were supposed to get healthy during the off season and be ready to go this year. Do we have a bunch of Nancy girls on our O-line or what? 2 games and they're already wiped. Marvin really needs to get better back ups because we haven't seen the starters all together since the first game against the Browns last season when we got all those injuries. Fuck!!!!!!!
MULLY

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='556385' date='Sep 24 2007, 06:03 AM'][b]Yeah, clock management at the end of the game is not something I've been very happy about with Marvin. I understand we need to score but we also need to control that damn clock. That last series where we scored, God damn that was quick. Slice and dice down the field and leave them with 3 minutes to get their shit together.[/b]

There was a game against the Steelers, maybe the season before last, that really rattled me cage. I think it was the game when Turdburglar was wearing the glove because of his injured thumb, pussy ass I might add. That day Big Bengina was playing above himself and had thrown for damn near close to 400 yards or more. We strolled down field in like milliseconds and scored and left them with something like 2 or 3 minutes on the clock. I'm sorry, no matter how inept Turdburglar is when he's already thrown for 400+ yards that day you pretty much have to assume he's going to be able to complete a few passes. He was working them back up the field and it scared the bejeezus outta me. I don't remember exactly what happened but they didn't score and we won. I just thought it was really really poor clock management giving them the ball back so soon. Anyone remember that one?[/quote]
Mully, they passed the ball until they got down into scoring range, then ran the ball on every single down. Are you trying to fault Kenny Watson for gaining too many yards and scoring too quickly?

[quote]3-J.Brown kicks 62 yards from SEA 30 to CIN 8. 16-G.Holt to CIN 32 for 24 yards (54-W.Herring).
1-10-CIN 32 (5:55) 84-T.Houshmandzadeh left end pushed ob at CIN 35 for 3 yards (23-M.Trufant).
2-7-CIN 35 (5:38) 9-C.Palmer pass short right to 85-C.Johnson pushed ob at 50 for 15 yards (24-D.Grant).
1-10- (5:18) 9-C.Palmer pass deep right to 85-C.Johnson to SEA 30 for 20 yards (24-D.Grant).
1-10-SEA 30 (4:38) 33-K.Watson left end to SEA 23 for 7 yards (55-D.Tapp).
2-3-SEA 23 (4:02) 33-K.Watson up the middle to SEA 22 for 1 yard (97-P.Kerney).
3-2-SEA 22 (3:22) 33-K.Watson up the middle to SEA 8 for 14 yards (24-D.Grant, 23-M.Trufant).
1-8-SEA 8 (2:48) 33-K.Watson right tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.[/quote]

[VonBlade]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='556425' date='Sep 24 2007, 10:41 AM']Are you trying to fault Kenny Watson for gaining too many yards and scoring too quickly?[/quote]

Yeah man. If that had been Rudi we'd have gone nowhere and had 4 plays to grind that fucking clock. Damn Kenny Watson and his ability to gain positive yardage.

Slightly more seriously. Whilst Darrin didn't make Holt fumble the KR, if he could coach anyone to actually tackle the returner then the final play wouldn't have freaking mattered because we'd have been about 15 ahead*.
VB

*assuming Carson realised his WRs aren't 7 foot tall and Rudi remembers which way he should be running.

[TheBeaverHunter]

Marvin and his comments are really starting to get old.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='556428' date='Sep 24 2007, 05:54 AM']*assuming Carson realised his WRs aren't 7 foot tall and Rudi remembers which way he should be running.[/quote]


and remembers that he has more than 2 WR's.

[Abu-Zayd]

For the most part, the coaching on D was good. We sent blitz packages and got pressure on Hasselbeck. We were aggressive and hitting people...somewhat... And no receivers were wide open. Everyone will give up some plays, but for the most part, until the end, the D played well, considering the pathetic circumstances.

[b]Rudi is not a championship caliber RB. [/b]Alexander got it done when needed, Rudi can't be trusted when it counts.

Chad dropped some crucial passes. TJ fumbled again. Deltha went lazy on their last drive. Hall is learning. Joseph is still not 100%. Still no Frostee.

[b]Special Olympics[/b]...what can I say...
I defend skyler green tho...what happened when seattle got downed inside the 2?

[b]Shayne Graham[/b] has never been nor will be reliable on kickoffs. They probably told him to directionally kick it to the sideline because they knew he would kick short and we would give up a big return, so they tried to stick them in a corner... and it went out of bounds.

COACHING:

WHY the [b]2-pt conversion[/b]? No sense. useless at that point with a couple minutes left.

ML, seemingly rookie coach, challenged the fumble, which you can't do. Ed Hochuli shot that down gladly. What you CAN do is challenge that it was a completion. (I believe, a resident nerd can check that rule for us).

On Seattle's last drive, there was [b]no aggressiveness/pass rush[/b] forcing them to make decisions. We sat back, as usual in crucial situations, and let them dictate what they were going to do.

the middle of the field was ignored...maybe next year we try to get a TE, eh?

SO----as was the case last year, they can't play a complete game. either Offense, Defense, or ST fails them. As Willie said, BOTH COACHES and PLAYERS have some work to do.

Best Call of the Day:
2nd and long to go, backed up in own end--->screen pass for 30...

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' post='556627' date='Sep 24 2007, 04:38 PM']Best Call of the Day:
2nd and long to go, backed up in own end--->screen pass for 30...[/quote]
Worst call of the day... they didn't try running that play again that I can remember...

[Patmo]

Respectfully disagree.Right now the coaches don't have the horses.The only obvious coaching problem appears to be Darrin Simmons.One punt reception by Skyler Green on the 5 is understandable .BUT a second offense by Green is unforgiveable.They should have pulled his butt out of there after the second reception.Potentially he cost the 30 yds of field position.

YEAH,THERE ARE A LOT MORE PROBLEMS BUT THEY ARE PLAYER CAUSED not the result of poor coaching.

[ItsTime]

[quote name='Patmo' post='556639' date='Sep 24 2007, 11:46 AM']Respectfully disagree.Right now the coaches don't have the horses.The only obvious coaching problem appears to be Darrin Simmons.One punt reception by Skyler Green on the 5 is understandable .BUT a second offense by Green is unforgiveable.They should have pulled his butt out of there after the second reception.Potentially he cost the 30 yds of field position.

YEAH,THERE ARE A LOT MORE PROBLEMS BUT THEY ARE PLAYER CAUSED not the result of poor coaching.[/quote]


Marvin and the FO have had plenty of time to get all the horses. It's time for a new FO and coach.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Patmo' post='556639' date='Sep 24 2007, 11:46 AM']Respectfully disagree.Right now the coaches don't have the horses.The only obvious coaching problem appears to be Darrin Simmons.One punt reception by Skyler Green on the 5 is understandable .BUT a second offense by Green is unforgiveable.They should have pulled his butt out of there after the second reception.Potentially he cost the 30 yds of field position.

YEAH,THERE ARE A LOT MORE PROBLEMS BUT THEY ARE PLAYER CAUSED not the result of poor coaching.[/quote]


it seems like a lost cause around here these days, people refuse to accept obvious missing peices and they want somone fired, and of course we cant fire the backups backups who are starting, so it must be the coaches fault that we played 2 LB's who have been with the team less than 4 weeks and they arent making huge plays already. not that we have 7 injured LB's alone.

im with ya patmo, coaches are doing alright, with what they have, besides simmons as you mentioned, ST's stink bigtime. thats not gonna fly against the pats...

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='ItsTime' post='556652' date='Sep 24 2007, 11:56 AM']Marvin and the FO have had plenty of time to get all the horses. It's time for a new FO and coach.[/quote]


just for shits and giggles, who would you bring in?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='ItsTime' post='556652' date='Sep 24 2007, 11:56 AM']Marvin and the FO have had plenty of time to get all the horses. It's time for a new FO and coach.[/quote]


i didnt know there were coahces who could heal injuries instantly and get starters back on the field...


name them.

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='556631' date='Sep 24 2007, 11:40 AM']Worst call of the day... they didn't try running that play again that I can remember...[/quote]

perhaps they should...
I respect your opinion on football... why do you not like that play on 2nd and 17?

[Phish]

I don't understand how most people can miss that it wasn't the last 2 minutes in this game that made us lose. Yes, we blew it at the end, but how well did our defense play to keep us in it the entire game. What lost us the game was suspect offensive play calling and the lack of adjustments; the inability of the offensive line to sustain blocks and running lanes; the incredibly terrible vision of our starting running back(ive never seen a RB run into the backs of blockers more); our top notch quarterback, who is suppose to be our savior, can't throw consistently(and fyi he's been doing this all 3 games, regardless of how many TD's or YPG he has put up); and last but not least, our completely shotty attempt at fielding a special teams unit.

Couple all that with bad in-game decision making on 2-pt conversions and challenges and you have yourself a game that should have been a blow out by the end of the 1st half. We should have been up 3 TD's going into halftime but our offense stunk it up.

Everybody bitches about its the players, not the coaches. Well, i seem to remember from my time playing team sports, that its the guidance, leadership and decision making of the coaches that helps to influence how well players play. Name me some bad coaches that took teams to national championships and super bowls multiple times and i'll concede that point, but the ultimate point is that these coaches have all the opportunities to coach up these guys on the sidelines and in the locker room to HELP them play better, but it doesnt seem like its working.

I was listening to 1530 last night and heard some great insights and i'll finish with those. We have no real leader on this team that can make them follow them and don't say Carson, he's almost there but not quite yet. And the best thing i heard. There is no fear in that locker room. Guys on this team consistently show that they do not want to give 100% on every play and thats why we see these blown coverages, lack of pass rush, badly thrown balls, poor blocking, terrible running and dropped passes.

You can say its one side or the other all you want, but it is all intertwined on how hard these coaches are on the players and how much coaching they do during the week and in the game. I know it was long, but god damn is all this stupid fighting over whether its the coaches or players fault is becoming tiresome. its everything from the Front Office to the coaches, right down to the players. This organization needs a wake up call and i think we might get one if the season keeps sliding as it seems to be doing at this point in time.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' post='556667' date='Sep 24 2007, 05:04 PM']perhaps they should...
I respect your opinion on football... why do you not like that play on 2nd and 17?[/quote]
Not sure what you mean

I have no problem with calling a screen. It's a great call against a fast, overpursuing D.

I just don't understand why it wasn't used more often when it was so successful the one and only time I remember it being called.

[ItsTime]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='556658' date='Sep 24 2007, 11:59 AM']just for shits and giggles, who would you bring in?[/quote]


I like no nonsense coaches that focus on the physical side of football, team chemistry and basics including field smarts, always have. I'm not a fan of pretenders and yadda yaddas, which is what I consider Marvin to be. Cheater or not, Belichick is a top coach as is the Tuna. I don't think Gruden is a builder, but I would take him for the short term if I had a good team that needed a kick in the ass. Cowher would almost assuredly never come here. Directionally, Marinelli is on the right road with Detroit in my mind and would fit well here as far a needs basis. I think Sciano (Rutgers) and Rodriguez (West Va.) could develop into good NFL coaches.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='ItsTime' post='556682' date='Sep 24 2007, 12:17 PM']I like no nonsense coaches that focus on the physical side of football, team chemistry and basics including field smarts, always have. I'm not a fan of pretenders and yadda yaddas, which is what I consider Marvin to be. Cheater or not, Belichick is a top coach as is the Tuna. I don't think Gruden is a builder, but I would take him for the short term if I had a good team that needed a kick in the ass. Cowher would almost assuredly never come here. Directionally, Marinelli is on the right road with Detroit in my mind and would fit well here as far a needs basis. [b]I think Sciano (Rutgers) and Rodriguez (West Va.) could develop into good NFL coaches.[/b][/quote]




Steve Spurrier was awsome!!

</sarcasm>

When was the last time a college coach came to the NFL and was successfull as a head coach?

[ItsTime]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='556686' date='Sep 24 2007, 12:22 PM']Steve Spurrier was awsome!!

</sarcasm>

When was the last time a college coach came to the NFL and was successfull as a head coach?[/quote]


I don't disagree that Spurrier is a joke, and that few college coaches would potentially do well after transit.

I was asked. I gave my general outline, I answered. Last I heard, the Tuna is still unemployed.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='ItsTime' post='556692' date='Sep 24 2007, 12:28 PM']I don't disagree that Spurrier is a joke, and that few college coaches would potentially do well after transit.

I was asked. I gave my general outline, I answered. Last I heard, the Tuna is still unemployed.[/quote]


Ok sarcasm aside, I ask again when was the last time a college coach was successfull in the NFL as a head coach?

And Parcells isnt going to retire for only one year. I honestly dont think hell coach again.

[Phatcat]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='556686' date='Sep 24 2007, 12:22 PM']Steve Spurrier was awsome!!

</sarcasm>

When was the last time a college coach came to the NFL and was successfull as a head coach?[/quote]

Agreed!


but...... I can think of one. His name - PAUL BROWN.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Phatcat' post='556696' date='Sep 24 2007, 12:31 PM']Agreed!
but...... I can think of one. His name - PAUL BROWN.[/quote]


exactly, it used to be that a good college coach could make the transition pretty easily.

but thats not the case anymore.