Should Marvin Lewis be fired at years end

[globetrotter]

thoughts

I am not voting in this because I am ok either way.

Marvin has had his time to make this a good team, and it is not one. It has regressed and he seems exhausted. I think he is a great coach and after he gets a GM and refreshes his batteries he will do great things. With that said I don't trust Mike Brown to do the things necessary to allow him to refresh his batteries here (add a new gm, get rid of the headaches. I also don't trust him to hire a new coach that is in anywhere close to as good as Marvin.

Not hiring a GM is the reason this team is miserable. Add to that the lack of a real personal staff.

[MULLY]

Thoughts?
[img]http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1121/deadhorseou5.jpg[/img]

[globetrotter]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='722865' date='Nov 10 2008, 09:42 PM']Thoughts?
[img]http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1121/deadhorseou5.jpg[/img][/quote]

How is someone beating a dead horse if they are not making a point?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='globetrotter' post='722866' date='Nov 10 2008, 10:43 PM']How is someone beating a dead horse if they are not making a point?[/quote]


how exactly is making a post and saying team problems not making a point?

and its the deadest horse beating ever...

and little of what you write is true..

[globetrotter]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='722867' date='Nov 10 2008, 09:45 PM']how exactly is making a post and saying team problems not making a point?

and its the deadest horse beating ever...

and little of what you write is true..[/quote]

I initially wrote nothing about the individual team problems. That was written after he replied.

What that I wrote wasnt true?

For how close you follow this team I am continually surprised by how ignorant you seem to be about it.

[globetrotter]

Very interesting results.

It seems like the overwhelming majority want him back and think he will be back. What makes you think he will be successful next year?

[Jamie_B]

lol,

I wanted him back before last week though the results were pretty different, one win and people change their minds. I blame fickel steve.

[scharm]

Beat Titans 35-6 a season ago. Titans playoff team and now 9-0.

How does the winning team drop all the way to 1-8 a season later? While supposedly the suck of the division is tied for first (Baltimore).

In August people thought this team would/could be good enough to go 2-0 against those very same teams. As a matter of fact certain posters made horrible excuses when the Bengals lost to such horrible teams like Willie being on the sidelines and wind.

It's not beating a dead horse, this roster (IMO) is much better than a 1-8 record. Go would have said nasty things to anybody predicting

Titan 9-0, Baltimore 6-3, Bengals 1-8.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='scharm' post='722902' date='Nov 11 2008, 04:28 AM']Beat Titans 35-6 a season ago. Titans playoff team and now 9-0.

How does the winning team drop all the way to 1-8 a season later? While supposedly the suck of the division is tied for first (Baltimore).

In August people thought this team would/could be good enough to go 2-0 against those very same teams. As a matter of fact certain posters made horrible excuses when the Bengals lost to such horrible teams like Willie being on the sidelines and wind.

It's not beating a dead horse, this roster (IMO) is much better than a 1-8 record. Go would have said nasty things to anybody predicting

Titan 9-0, Baltimore 6-3, Bengals 1-8.[/quote]



The Ravens haven`t played one team from the NFC East yet.
They will this week though. They have played the Colts and
Titans though, and lost to both teams. And what injuries
has the Ravens had? They have been a pretty healthy team
haven`t they?

As for the Titans, again, they have been pretty healthy.
And are playing against the NFC North.

Anyway, you say this roster is much better than an 1-8 record,
and I would agree. BUT


This season, their best player (Palmer) was injured in the 3rd game of the season,
their RB hadn`t played in a game in almost 2 years, their 3 best WRs were
either injured (Chad seperated shoulder in the 2nd preseason game), coming off injury
(TJ missed all of the OTAs, all of training camp and all of the preseason games) or
coming off suspension (Henry played in 1 preseason game and was suspended the
first 4 games of the season), their starting FB was put on IR right before the season
started, their pass catching TE was hurt in the 2nd game of the season, both of their
backup RBs were injured at the start of the season (Watson missed 2 games, Dorsey IRd),
their LT has to get animal fat injected into his knee). So that is their Franchise QB, all 3 of their starting WR,
their entire RB corp, their Free Agent TE, and what is supposed to be the best O-lineman on your team.
While all of that wasn`t enough, they have played 6 out of the top 11 Defenses in the NFL, in 6 of their 9 games.

I didn`t even mention their Free Agent DE missing all of training Camp and Preseason
because of a foot injury. Or them losing their top 10 draft pick LB. Or that the best
RB on the team didn`t join the team until right before the 5th game of the season.

The Bengals have the 4th youngest team in the NFL. They have played the
toughest schedule in the NFL. Their best, most experienced players, on what
is supposed to be the strength of the team (Offense), has been injured/and or
missed games this season, while playing some of the best Defenses in the NFL,
and playing 5 of their first 8 games on the road.

Carson was sacked 11 times in 4 games.
Fitzpatrick has been sacked 19 times in 5 games, from holding the ball too long.

Chris Perry was too rusty. He missed his cuts, had bad reads, sucks at pass blocking,
and put the ball on the ground way too much.

Sorry, I just don`t see how all of that is Marvin Lewis' fault.
Hell, I would argue that any team, regardless of who their Coach
or owner is, would have a tough time winning, when they had all of that happen
to such a young team.

This team had made the Playoffs, or was in Playoff contention
3 out of the past 5 season.

They took a 2-14 team, and won the division in 3 short years.

In 2003, they were 8-6, and lost their last 2 games to finish 8-8.
In 2006, they were 8-5, and literally were one play away from making the Playoffs,
before finishing 8-8. So although they finished 8-8, they were in Playoff contention both years.

This team has won 43 games since 2003. They won 47 games from
1991 through 2002. I don`t think Marvin all of a sudden forgot how
to coach.


This team has talent. The problem is, their best, most experienced talent
has been injured this season, and a few seasons prior. This teams was trying
to rebuild, and had top picks that they obviously were counting on, be injured
or suspended. Still they have been competitve. The record wouldn`t indicate
that this year, but they have been in every game. An inlfux of youth, having
your best players injured, while playing the toughest schedule in the NFL is what
has this team at 1-8. In my educated opinion.


People can bring up the Colts, the Patriots or other teams. The fact is,
none of those team have had as many injuries or supensions
to their best players or highest draft picks, like the Bengals have had.
None of those teams had to rebuid in 2003, and then blew it all up.
None of those teams have played as tough of a schedule as the Bengals have.


As long as people keep talking about it being Marvin's fault,
or Mike Brown's fault. I will keep beating the same horse
I have been beating for weeks now.

[ickeyshuffler]

i voted no, but if you had asked this question before the jags game my answer would of been yes. But if he can get an 0-8 team to fight like that he shouldnt be fired.

[Randle P McMurphy]

As loyal as Mike Brown is no way he get's fired. And like Whodey24k said this team is showing
no signs of throwing in the towel when they easily could be.

If Marvin is gonna catch hell about anything it should be lack of depth or developing good, solid
depth. Every team has injuries. I know some more than others but still. Just seems like other
teams deal with the injury bug better than the Bengals do.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Randle P McMurphy' post='722927' date='Nov 11 2008, 08:51 AM']As loyal as Mike Brown is no way he get's fired.[/quote]

I always hear that, but Mike Brown went through
5 coaches in 12 years.

Do people just say that because he stuck with
Dave Shula for too long?


[quote]If Marvin is gonna catch hell about anything it should be lack of depth or developing good, solid
depth. Every team has injuries. I know some more than others but still. Just seems like other
teams deal with the injury bug better than the Bengals do.[/quote]


Hard to have depth when you are rebuilding and high draft picks get injured
or suspended. Seriously, think about it.

All of our first round draft picks since 2003, with the exception of Hall,
has been injured this season, or lost mutiple seasons prior, or are
out of the NFL entirely. Palmer, injured. Perry, injured since 2006.
Pollack injured and retired. Joseph, missed 2 games. Rivers, injured, out for the season.

Also, Kenny Irons gone because of injury. Odell Thurman, gone because of being stupid.

[|ArmyBengal|]

Who's making the personnel decisions has been and will continue to be thoroughly debated. MB could easily pull a Al Davis by blaming everything on ML and simply firing him. For all his faults, I do admire MB's loyalty (how strangely inconsistent with him not having a Ring of Fame). ML will be back if only b/c of MB's one trait that overrides loyalty -- stubbornness.

The brain trust made several well documented decisions that have crippled this organization. Crippling loses to key starters that affects player depth and drafting. Hindsight being what it is, the last two 8-8ish seasons seem all the more remarkable. Quoting MB, we're two players away, may just have been true. But that was then, now it's more like 4-5.

I really like what Zimmer is doing with the D. I wouldn't mind seeing Zamp promoted to O'Coord, but overall I see the coaching staff remaining in tact. A few more scouts seems to be a rallying cry, how much of the bottom line do they really cost? half a percent?

[rudi32]

I voted no, then yes.

I still want him gone, because I want new coaches in several places. getting a team to 'fight' shouldn't be hard. These guys are professionals and its their job to 'fight'.

We have regressed in 2006, 2007, and 2008. Thats 3 years of stepping backwards.

I like marvin, but want him gone.

philly is coming in here after losing a nail biter. They are in a must win game, we are coming off a bye. marvin is like 1-5 fomr the bye week + a team (philly) hungry for a win = loss for us

[ccartman2]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='722909' date='Nov 11 2008, 08:47 AM']The Ravens haven`t played one team from the NFC East yet.
They will this week though. They have played the Colts and
Titans though, and lost to both teams. And what injuries
has the Ravens had? They have been a pretty healthy team
haven`t they?

As for the Titans, again, they have been pretty healthy.
And are playing against the NFC North.

Anyway, you say this roster is much better than an 1-8 record,
and I would agree. BUT


This season, their best player (Palmer) was injured in the 3rd game of the season,
their RB hadn`t played in a game in almost 2 years, their 3 best WRs were
either injured (Chad seperated shoulder in the 2nd preseason game), coming off injury
(TJ missed all of the OTAs, all of training camp and all of the preseason games) or
coming off suspension (Henry played in 1 preseason game and was suspended the
first 4 games of the season), their starting FB was put on IR right before the season
started, their pass catching TE was hurt in the 2nd game of the season, both of their
backup RBs were injured at the start of the season (Watson missed 2 games, Dorsey IRd),
their LT has to get animal fat injected into his knee). So that is their Franchise QB, all 3 of their starting WR,
their entire RB corp, their Free Agent TE, and what is supposed to be the best O-lineman on your team.
While all of that wasn`t enough, they have played 6 out of the top 11 Defenses in the NFL, in 6 of their 9 games.

I didn`t even mention their Free Agent DE missing all of training Camp and Preseason
because of a foot injury. Or them losing their top 10 draft pick LB. Or that the best
RB on the team didn`t join the team until right before the 5th game of the season.

The Bengals have the 4th youngest team in the NFL. They have played the
toughest schedule in the NFL. Their best, most experienced players, on what
is supposed to be the strength of the team (Offense), has been injured/and or
missed games this season, while playing some of the best Defenses in the NFL,
and playing 5 of their first 8 games on the road.

Carson was sacked 11 times in 4 games.
Fitzpatrick has been sacked 19 times in 5 games, from holding the ball too long.

Chris Perry was too rusty. He missed his cuts, had bad reads, sucks at pass blocking,
and put the ball on the ground way too much.

Sorry, I just don`t see how all of that is Marvin Lewis' fault.
Hell, I would argue that any team, regardless of who their Coach
or owner is, would have a tough time winning, when they had all of that happen
to such a young team.

This team had made the Playoffs, or was in Playoff contention
3 out of the past 5 season.

They took a 2-14 team, and won the division in 3 short years.

In 2003, they were 8-6, and lost their last 2 games to finish 8-8.
In 2006, they were 8-5, and literally were one play away from making the Playoffs,
before finishing 8-8. So although they finished 8-8, they were in Playoff contention both years.

This team has won 43 games since 2003. They won 47 games from
1991 through 2002. I don`t think Marvin all of a sudden forgot how
to coach.


This team has talent. The problem is, their best, most experienced talent
has been injured this season, and a few seasons prior. This teams was trying
to rebuild, and had top picks that they obviously were counting on, be injured
or suspended. Still they have been competitve. The record wouldn`t indicate
that this year, but they have been in every game. An inlfux of youth, having
your best players injured, while playing the toughest schedule in the NFL is what
has this team at 1-8. In my educated opinion.


People can bring up the Colts, the Patriots or other teams. The fact is,
none of those team have had as many injuries or supensions
to their best players or highest draft picks, like the Bengals have had.
None of those teams had to rebuid in 2003, and then blew it all up.
None of those teams have played as tough of a schedule as the Bengals have.


As long as people keep talking about it being Marvin's fault,
or Mike Brown's fault. I will keep beating the same horse
I have been beating for weeks now.[/quote]

You left out that 5 of those first 8 games were also on the Road. The only home game we lost with palmer was to the 9-0 Titans in a Tropical Storm. We would have clobbered Cleveland with Palmer, and we may have beat Pittsburg, as that game didn't turn into a blow out until late in the 4th quarter. In truth, this team is a few breaks away from being 3-5 or 4-4 and squarely in the playoff hunt.

The reason I think he should stay is he does still have this team, and he does know how to coach. Yeah there have been growing pains, but coaches like Belicheat weren't built in a day. Now if we are 1-8 again next season, it'll be time for him to go, but I just don't see that happening.

[|SF2|]

Just ask yourself this question: If Marvin had these results at any of the high quality organizations what would happen?

If we desire to be a world class franchise then we need to act like one.

Are we even close?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='SF2' post='722963' date='Nov 11 2008, 11:45 AM']Just ask yourself this question: If Marvin had these results at any of the high quality organizations what would happen?

If we desire to be a world class franchise then we need to act like one.

Are we even close?[/quote]


Then ask yourself another question. Would Marvin get better support from the FO at any of those high quality organizations?

[oldschooler]

[quote name='ccartman2' post='722961' date='Nov 11 2008, 10:35 AM']You left out that 5 of those first 8 games were also on the Road.[/quote]

No, I stated that. I guess it just got lost in the novel . . .


[quote]The Bengals have the 4th youngest team in the NFL. They have played the
toughest schedule in the NFL. Their best, most experienced players, on what
is supposed to be the strength of the team (Offense), has been injured/and or
missed games this season, while playing some of the best Defenses in the NFL,
[b]and playing 5 of their first 8 games on the road.[/b][/quote]


[quote name='SF2' post='722963' date='Nov 11 2008, 10:45 AM']Just ask yourself this question: If Marvin had these results at any of the high quality organizations what would happen?[/quote]


Jeff Fisher had a record of 44-36 his first 5 full seasons with the Titans.
45-41 if you count the 1994 season, when he took over for Pardee and went 1-5.

Marvin Lewis went 42-38 his first 5 seasons with the Bengals.
From 2003 through 2007, Fisher went 39-41.

Now the question is, do you consider the 9-0 Titans, a "high quality" organization?

[ccartman2]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='722968' date='Nov 11 2008, 12:02 PM']No, I stated that. I guess it just got lost in the novel . . .








Jeff Fisher had a record of 44-36 his first 5 full seasons with the Titans.
45-41 if you count the 1994 season, when he took over for Pardee and went 1-5.

Marvin Lewis went 42-38 his first 5 seasons with the Bengals.
From 2003 through 2007, Fisher went 39-41.

Now the question is, do you consider the 9-0 Titans, a "high quality" organization?[/quote]

Sorry. I missed it.

[scharm]

[quote]The Ravens haven`t played one team from the NFC East yet.[/quote]

They are 6-3 with a victory over the mighty bengals. Who they've played or going to play doesn't mean much because we all knew the schedules prior to the season starting and most (about 99%) were convinced the Bengals would be ahead of the lowly Ravens in the standings.

That speaks to not meeting expectations.

[quote]They have been a pretty healthy team
haven`t they?[/quote]

I guess. A healthy team we all thought would suck. I don't really recall many people shaking in fear of the Ravens during the offseason.

[quote]Anyway, you say this roster is much better than an 1-8 record,
and I would agree.[/quote]

Thank you.

[quote]This season, their best player (Palmer) was injured in the 3rd game of the season,
their RB hadn`t played in a game in almost 2 years, their 3 best WRs were
either injured (Chad seperated shoulder in the 2nd preseason game), coming off injury
(TJ missed all of the OTAs, all of training camp and all of the preseason games) or
coming off suspension (Henry played in 1 preseason game and was suspended the
first 4 games of the season), their starting FB was put on IR right before the season
started, their pass catching TE was hurt in the 2nd game of the season, both of their
backup RBs were injured at the start of the season (Watson missed 2 games, Dorsey IRd),
their LT has to get animal fat injected into his knee). So that is their Franchise QB, all 3 of their starting WR,
their entire RB corp, their Free Agent TE, and what is supposed to be the best O-lineman on your team.
While all of that wasn`t enough, they have played 6 out of the top 11 Defenses in the NFL, in 6 of their 9 games.[/quote]

It's either Mike Brown or Injuries. We have the world's greatest coaching staff that is constantly undermined by those two factors.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='scharm' post='722976' date='Nov 11 2008, 11:18 AM']They are 6-3 with a victory over the mighty bengals. Who they've played or going to play doesn't mean much because we all knew the schedules prior to the season starting and most (about 99%) were convinced the Bengals would be ahead of the lowly Ravens in the standings.

That speaks to not meeting expectations.[/quote]


And most of those fans never dreamed they would be
without Palmer, and have as many injuries to skill position players,
lose Rivers ect.




[quote]I guess. A healthy team we all thought would suck. I don't really recall many people shaking in fear of the Ravens during the offseason.[/quote]


I am still not shaking in fear. I think the Bengals
will beat them when they play again.


[quote]Thank you.[/quote]

You`re welcome.



[quote]It's either Mike Brown or Injuries. We have the world's greatest coaching staff that is constantly undermined by those two factors.[/quote]


I'm sorry, I guess every team loses their Franchise QB, has all of
their skill position players banged up to start the season, has the 4th youngest team
in the NFL, and plays the toughest schedule, and goes undefeated.



I know that you don`t like Marvin. Your problem is, you don`t
want to blame anything on anything else. Everything is Marvin's fault.

Good luck convincing anyone other than yourself of that . . .

[bgwilly31]

How can you not love what the 49ers new coach is doing over there.

Immediately put his foot down and now he has a great relationship with his team and has really sparked a fire out of them. The 49ers played one hell of a game on monday night.

I really enjoyed watching him coach.



I Never really enjoy watching marvin coach. NOT once have i said that to myself throughout marvins time here.

Marvin sucks donkey balls and needs to hit the road.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bgwilly31' post='722978' date='Nov 11 2008, 11:28 AM']How can you not love what the 49ers new coach is doing over there.

Immediately put his foot down and now he has a great relationship with his team and has really sparked a fire out of them. The 49ers played one hell of a game on monday night.

I really enjoyed watching him coach.



I Never really enjoy watching marvin coach. NOT once have i said that to myself throughout marvins time here.

Marvin sucks donkey balls and needs to hit the road.[/quote]

LMFAO !!!

They are 0-2 !

They had a chance to win, and made one of the worst calls
I have ever seen in my life !

4 seconds to go, no timeouts, on the 2 yard line,
and they hand it to their backup RB?

Good lord.

But hey, I am sure you would have "enjoyed that"
if that was him and the Bengals huh?

[Actium]

I voted No and Yes.

the jax game is not enough for me. If he can string a few together like that, then yes I would want him back.

For me the Jags game was the outlier and as such is not all that significant. We'll see how the team does coming off the bye.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bgwilly31' post='722978' date='Nov 11 2008, 12:28 PM']How can you not love what the 49ers new coach is doing over there.

Immediately put his foot down and now he has a great relationship with his team and has really sparked a fire out of them. The 49ers played one hell of a game on monday night.

I really enjoyed watching him coach.



I Never really enjoy watching marvin coach. NOT once have i said that to myself throughout marvins time here.

Marvin sucks donkey balls and needs to hit the road.[/quote]


I don't dislike Singletary as a coach, but how about we keep things in perspective? So far he's 0-2, has kicked one of his players off the field when he shouldn't have, mooned his players during half time of his first game as HC, and yesterday horribly mismanaged the last minute of the game and then threw his offensive coordinator under the bus in the post-game press conference.


Is he doing a lot of talking? Sure, but not all of its good.