CTBengalsFan Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 "[T]he truth is that a dollar of capital in a bank can actually result in eight or ten dollars of loans to families and businesses, a multiplier effect that can ultimately lead to a faster pace of economic growth." [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/obama-economy-speech-majo_n_186559.html"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/o...o_n_186559.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza10304 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='764523' date='Apr 16 2009, 09:26 PM']"[T]he truth is that a dollar of capital in a bank can actually result in eight or ten dollars of loans to families and businesses, a multiplier effect that can ultimately lead to a faster pace of economic growth." [url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/obama-economy-speech-majo_n_186559.html"]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/o...o_n_186559.html[/url][/quote] Are you questioning: 1) the numbers he used 2) the multiplier effect 3) or the reserve rate of banks ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 That this debt entanglement is not the way out of this. Money != debt. Sounds like something I expect Geithner/Summers/Bernanke to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globetrotter Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 There is nothing wrong with debt. Public perception is what drives the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Nothing? Nothing at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jza10304 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='764542' date='Apr 16 2009, 10:54 PM']That this debt entanglement is not the way out of this. Money != debt. Sounds like something I expect Geithner/Summers/Bernanke to say.[/quote] So what is the way out of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='globetrotter' post='764548' date='Apr 16 2009, 11:03 PM']There is nothing wrong with debt. Public perception is what drives the economy.[/quote] In general I agree that there isn't anything wrong with debit persay, so long as that debit gets paid back. Not manipulated and sold in derivatives that are then gambled upon the likely hood of that debit getting paid back, without the investor knowing that the borrower isn't AAA rated because everyone was getting rated AAA regardless of their status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='jza10304' post='764556' date='Apr 16 2009, 11:28 PM']So what is the way out of this?[/quote] Invest in taking the train off the making money with money tracks, and putting it back onto the making money buy producing goods and selling them tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bengal Migration| Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='764542' date='Apr 17 2009, 10:54 AM']That this debt entanglement is not the way out of this. Money != debt. Sounds like something I expect Geithner/Summers/Bernanke to say.[/quote] It's called fractional reserve banking, and unfortunately, it's a key part of our banking system. The single greatest scam ever invented. I know I wish that I could print money out of thin air, and then lend 10x that amount to others and charge them interest.. Sounds like a sweet gig to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I'm in complete agreement with that. I'm of the train of thought that the Federal Reserve shouldn't exist. I've read that Woodrow Wilson later regretted allowing banking influences of the time (JP Morgan, Rockefeller, etc.) talk him into creating the Federal Reserve Act, though I'd run that by Homer, the history fact checker. I don't think banking influences in this country would ever let that happen, because Europe has them, and will continue to have them, and they wouldn't be able to compete at the absurd levels of banking if it didn't exist, or if Glass-Steagal were in place, etc, etc. I shouldn't just say banking interests either, because cheap credit is good for all large corporations in the short-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='jza10304' post='764556' date='Apr 16 2009, 11:28 PM']So what is the way out of this?[/quote] Not taking direction from the people who were integral in causing the mess would be a good start, I think. I looked for a post Homer made pre-election for a while but I couldn't find the one I was thinking of, because he articulated something I agreed with wholeheartedly, and I'm not going to do the disservice of trying to repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='764559' date='Apr 16 2009, 11:34 PM']Invest in taking the train off the making money with money tracks, and putting it back onto the making money buy producing goods and selling them tracks.[/quote] We would need an industrial base again for that.... [quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='764562' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:01 AM']Not taking direction from the people who were integral in causing the mess would be a good start, I think. I looked for a post Homer made pre-election for a while but I couldn't find the one I was thinking of, because he articulated something I agreed with wholeheartedly, and [b]I'm not going to do the disservice of trying to repeat it.[/b][/quote] Yeah, that happens to me a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Elflocko' post='764567' date='Apr 17 2009, 01:01 AM']We would need an industrial base again for that.... Yeah, that happens to me a lot...[/quote] which imo is what our stimulus should be doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Jamie_B' post='764558' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:32 PM']In general I agree that there isn't anything wrong with debit persay, so long as that debit gets paid back. Not manipulated and sold in derivatives that are then gambled upon the likely hood of that debit getting paid back, without the investor knowing that the borrower isn't AAA rated because everyone was getting rated AAA regardless of their status.[/quote] Jamie, you seem like an intelligent person. I may not always agree with what you say but I can respect that you know what you're talking about and that you believe in it. But dude, your spelling almost ruins it for me every time. I'm not trying to make fun of you or pick on you so please don't take it like that. I'm saying this as a friend that actually does think highly of you. Do yourself a favor and turn on the spell checker in your browser. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Fulcher_33' post='764572' date='Apr 17 2009, 02:01 AM']Jamie, you seem like an intelligent person. I may not always agree with what you say but I can respect that you know what you're talking about and that you believe in it. But dude, your spelling almost ruins it for me every time. I'm not trying to make fun of you or pick on you so please don't take it like that. I'm saying this as a friend that actually does think highly of you. Do yourself a favor and turn on the spell checker in your browser. MULLY[/quote] Finding a programmer with spelling skills is akin to finding a heterosexual male who doesn't like Jessica Alba's ass. They're used to writing gibberish day in and day out, so it flows through to their primary language. Or he does it to be contrary. Either way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Elflocko' post='764573' date='Apr 17 2009, 01:23 AM']Finding a programmer with spelling skills is akin to finding a heterosexual male who doesn't like Jessica Alba's ass. They're used to writing gibberish day in and day out, so it flows through to their primary language. Or he does it to be contrary. Either way...[/quote] SON OF A BITCH!! that explains everything. i type ahve instead of have every god damn time... a href 10 years ago placing a image manually on a tripod or geocities site has ruined my spelling for life... this is bullshit.. *investigates further* PS: i spent ROUGHLY 37 minutes of my day, "conversing" with a republican fellow at work, who said something about Obama in passing so i poked the bear and asked, "what exactly has he done so horribly in the past few months to make you think this" to which he responded with about 30 individual things that were wrong with the economy, the country, the bank system, the lending system, and between each, i asked "what exactly does that have to do with Obama? or "What part did Obama take in that at any stage?" his "the country is in ruin" and my "your saying Obama ruined the entire country in a few months?" pretty much summed it up... after he felt remotely silly for making up dozens of decade old problems and blamed a man in charge for a few months, he then fell ridicule to other co workers.. and if anything went wrong, like they couldnt close a sale, or the cleaning crew didnt show up, we all blamed Obama. "Fuckin Obama, he couldnt close the sale for you" "Obama, making you take out the trash, what a dick" eh.. probably funnier at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='GoBengals' post='764578' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:21 AM']SON OF A BITCH!! that explains everything. i type ahve instead of have every god damn time... a href 10 years ago placing a image manually on a tripod or geocities site has ruined my spelling for life... this is bullshit.. *investigates further*[/quote] Or you're both fucking dyslexic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Elflocko' post='764579' date='Apr 17 2009, 02:25 AM']Or you're both fucking dyslexic...[/quote] tahw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='GoBengals' post='764578' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:21 AM']SON OF A BITCH!! that explains everything. i type ahve instead of have every god damn time... a href 10 years ago placing a image manually on a tripod or geocities site has ruined my spelling for life... this is bullshit.. *investigates further* [b]PS: i spent ROUGHLY 37 minutes of my day, "conversing" with a republican fellow at work, who said something about Obama in passing so i poked the bear and asked, "what exactly has he done so horribly in the past few months to make you think this" to which he responded with about 30 individual things that were wrong with the economy, the country, the bank system, the lending system, and between each, i asked "what exactly does that have to do with Obama? or "What part did Obama take in that at any stage?" his "the country is in ruin" and my "your saying Obama ruined the entire country in a few months?" pretty much summed it up... after he felt remotely silly for making up dozens of decade old problems and blamed a man in charge for a few months, he then fell ridicule to other co workers.. and if anything went wrong, like they couldnt close a sale, or the cleaning crew didnt show up, we all blamed Obama. "Fuckin Obama, he couldnt close the sale for you" "Obama, making you take out the trash, what a dick" eh.. probably funnier at the time.[/b][/quote] Oh no, still highly entertaining. That kind of ball busting is always a grand time. [quote name='GoBengals' post='764580' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:30 AM']tahw?[/quote] Huh? I think I suffer from palindromes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='Fulcher_33' post='764572' date='Apr 17 2009, 01:01 AM']Jamie, you seem like an intelligent person. I may not always agree with what you say but I can respect that you know what you're talking about and that you believe in it. But dude, your spelling almost ruins it for me every time. I'm not trying to make fun of you or pick on you so please don't take it like that. I'm saying this as a friend that actually does think highly of you. Do yourself a favor and turn on the spell checker in your browser. MULLY[/quote] Debit wouldn't be caught with spellchecker since it is a word, just not the right word. Persay (per se) would have been caught though. I know Jamie doesn't want to be a bad speller, and I still think it has more to do with visualization abilities than intelligence. I think he has said before that the browser he has to use at work doesn't have spellchecker, but at home he does. Go, I really do wonder if you're dyslexic. That's not a slam at all, just an observation. Did you have trouble with switching letters in school, because you do it a lot, with a lot of words here. Do you just not type well, and don't proofread what you type, maybe? I can't type worth a shit, but I am a good speller. I never had a spellchecker until I switched to Firefox a couple of months ago, but I do look over what I've typed before I post. There are times when I'm not sure, and I'll look up a word before I post, but not often. I'm not bragging, it's just something that I've always had a natural ability to do. Again, this is not intended as a slam, but I'm pretty sure I spelled better than Jamie does when I was in the second or third grade. I sure as hell wasn't smarter then, than Jamie is now. I think the difference between people who can, or can't spell is similar to people who can, or can't play an instrument. With both, practice can improve your ability, but some people will never be good at playing an instrument, no matter how much they practice, and the same goes for spelling. We're all wired differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I have nothing against Obama. With that said, I have no real love for the man either. I really couldn't give a fuck either way about him. But I have to agree with Go in that he's only been in office for 2 and a half months and people are acting like he's ruined the country. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I'd argue he's done plenty so far to lead us down the wrong path already, stuff I would have expected the Bush admin to do. But regardless of that, it's just super, super clear, in my eyes at least, and as Homer said was his worry all before the election, that Obama is not prepared or willing to step outside of a clearly bankrupt and broken system and make real substantial changes to shift the paradigm away from the financial sector. The instant double takes on a bunch of his campaign promises sent me the message that he said what he said during the campaign because that's what it would take to get elected. Not that I should be surprised by this, I just hoped he could live up to some of what he promised. But even that is looking unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='GoBengals' post='764578' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:21 AM']PS: i spent ROUGHLY 37 minutes of my day, "conversing" with a republican fellow at work, who said something about Obama in passing so i poked the bear and asked, "[b]what exactly has he done so horribly in the past few months to make you think this[/b]" to which he responded with about 30 individual things that were wrong with the economy, the country, the bank system, the lending system, and between each, i asked "what exactly does that have to do with Obama? or "What part did Obama take in that at any stage?" his "the country is in ruin" and my "your saying Obama ruined the entire country in a few months?" pretty much summed it up... after he felt remotely silly for making up dozens of decade old problems and blamed a man in charge for a few months, he then fell ridicule to other co workers.. and if anything went wrong, like they couldnt close a sale, or the cleaning crew didnt show up, we all blamed Obama. "Fuckin Obama, he couldnt close the sale for you" "Obama, making you take out the trash, what a dick" eh.. probably funnier at the time.[/quote] hmmmm... signed a $787 [size=4]BILLION[/size] dollar bill into law with a whopping 2-3 days of critique... So, this stimulus bill actually has about 30% of actual stimulus in it that should help put money back into the market. But, I know when I look at the checking account and I'm $150 in the hole I go right out and spend another $100 to $150 (to see a movie and other frivolous stuff, nothing to pay a bill or help the situation out) to go further into the hole... don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Quick hits: 1) It didn't start with the Federal Reserve. Review all the banking crises of the 19th century and you'll find that most of them (perhaps all, but I'd have to double-check) derive from one variety or another of solving the "too much money (financial instruments) in circulation compared to production" problem. The Fed isn't going anywhere, but perhaps the best thing we can do is convert it from a central bank into a national bank more directly under the control of Treasury. But the 'gummint' haters won't go for that for what they think of as principled reasons, and the 'socialists' won't go for it because they are, in fact, neither real socialists nor all that principled anymore--at least on matters of this kind. 2) On our lexicon: we used to call them "panics." More appropriate term, imo. 3) Google [url="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=Ohio+Life+Insurance+and+Trust%2Bpanic+of+1857&btnG=Search"]"Ohio Life Insurance and Trust+panic of 1857"[/url] for a blast from the past. Not exactly the same as AIG, but not completely foreign, either. 4) Haven't looked at details of Obama's train proposal yet, but it's possibly a good move. Also possibly a giveaway, if it's a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-private_partnership"]PPP[/url] without proper regulation and oversight. 5) I think the jury is still out on whether Obama is up to stopping the cold coup going on now by the financial sector. But, I confess, I didn't expect him to be so complaisant, as he has been thus far, either. The key for me is the prejudicial difference in treatment between the admin approach to the financial sector vs the admin approach to one of the last bastions of "machine-tool" production on a wide scale in this country. If we lose our machine tool capability (any more than it has thus far eroded, which is pretty damn far) then it's all over folks. The crying shame is that any student of American economic history ought to be able to see this from miles and miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 [quote name='BengalBacker' post='764587' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:39 AM']Debit wouldn't be caught with spellchecker since it is a word, just not the right word. Persay (per se) would have been caught though. I know Jamie doesn't want to be a bad speller, and I still think it has more to do with visualization abilities than intelligence. I think he has said before that the browser he has to use at work doesn't have spellchecker, but at home he does. [b]Go, I really do wonder if you're dyslexic. That's not a slam at all, just an observation. Did you have trouble with switching letters in school, because you do it a lot, with a lot of words here. Do you just not type well, and don't proofread what you type, maybe? [/b] I can't type worth a shit, but I am a good speller. I never had a spellchecker until I switched to Firefox a couple of months ago, but I do look over what I've typed before I post. There are times when I'm not sure, and I'll look up a word before I post, but not often. I'm not bragging, it's just something that I've always had a natural ability to do. Again, this is not intended as a slam, but I'm pretty sure I spelled better than Jamie does when I was in the second or third grade. I sure as hell wasn't smarter then, than Jamie is now. I think the difference between people who can, or can't spell is similar to people who can, or can't play an instrument. With both, practice can improve your ability, but some people will never be good at playing an instrument, no matter how much they practice, and the same goes for spelling. We're all wired differently.[/quote] I was fine in school, and when i write, im fine too, it all started when i worked retail for about a year (and the following 6 years working it). Im remotely tall, and the keyboards at work were always a but low, so i either had to lean over (fat guy bad back issue there) or do the splits to be remotely close to typing properly. I end up typing with 2-3 fingers on each hand, and then when i get normal level some fingers move faster than others, and i type things in the wrong order. at least thats my guess. reading writing everything BUT typing on a keyboard im fine with. and yea, i NEVER look over what i type before i post.. sometimes ill hit edit and fix some HORRIBLE ones.. but often i even ignore the spell check while im typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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