BengalsNYC Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294092480' post='957047'] Thats a gross oversimplification. You think a coach leaving after a 4-12 season does not show that the franchise is seeking organizational progress towards a winning organization. Did everyone just forget how awfule we were this year. We were awful. [/quote] We did have a bad year, a terrible year even. However, there has been much publicity given to Marvin's demands of organizational changes (read MB's meddling) and if Marvin were to come back it would be a clear indicator that Mike has loosened his iron grip on the organization. I think what we're seeing from the fan base is fairly interesting. A fairly large contingent would rather take Marvin back (poor game mgmt, results, etc) knowing Mike Brown gave up some control rather than bring in an unknown who more than likely will bow to MB's demands even though the new coach could be more talented than Marvin. In my heart of hearts, I do want Marvin back for reasons already mentioned but I know there is very little chance it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='GoBengals' timestamp='1294092848' post='957051'] not really.. what FA is like "WHUUUTTTT ill have to go to an offsite facilty vs having an offsite facilty of our own??!?!" and not come here then... [/quote] An off site facility that you have to bus to an hour away?? If I am not mistaken the facility they use is in Dayton right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294092971' post='957054'] It's not an oversimplification. It's completely accurate, and somewhere I think you know that. I think by now we all know that Marvin wants certain things in order to come back, and its widely reported that the Bengals DO want him back. So if Marvin's back, that means Mike caved on some demands. That's not oversimplifying it, its the truth. [/quote] Until Marvin shits the bed in a season with expectations and then secretly Mike Brown took back control. It is an oversimplification. Marvin supposedly had control of this organization once already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294093150' post='957060'] Until Marvin shits the bed in a season with expectations and then secretly Mike Brown took back control. It is an oversimplification. Marvin [b]supposedly[/b] had control of this organization once already. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1294093150' post='957060'] Until Marvin shits the bed in a season with expectations and then secretly Mike Brown took back control. It is an oversimplification. Marvin supposedly had control of this organization once already. [/quote] I disagree... See Chris Henry Bob Bratkowski Hue Jackson Practice Bubble or complex... ...and you can not tell me Marvin would not have hired more scouts if he had the ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 The man was 4-12 his second 4-12 season in 3 years and he lost the same way he loses every year, undisciplined, unprepared and outschemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Marvin has it good. Anything that goes wrong with the organization its on Mike Brown and not Marvin. Marvin has been bad for 3 years. I wanted him gone last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294093870' post='957070'] I wanted him gone last year. [/quote] Well then you are obviously an idiot and should exclude yourself from a rational conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullichicken25 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 it seems like some people are trying to skew the miserable state of the bengals right now to be entirely Mike Browns fault it looks to me like he took a division winning (and AFC north sweeping) team and added a hall of fame receiver and a stellar draft...the dude couldnt have done much more to put this team in position to win the super bowl this season...i dont remember hearing much opposition to anything that happened this offseason, besides the bryant fiasco the players and coaches shit the bed hard this year and theres no way around it, as far as im concerned Mike Brown did his part now im not saying he's wonderful, or has a great track record, or that serious changes shouldnt be made in the way he runs things..... im just saying that from his perspective, he probablly thinks that he gave the coaches as good of a cast as possible and they fucked it up real hard...wouldnt be surprised if he wanted to fire every last one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='BengalsNYC' timestamp='1294093112' post='957058'] We did have a bad year, a terrible year even. However, there has been much publicity given to Marvin's demands of organizational changes (read MB's meddling) and if Marvin were to come back it would be a clear indicator that Mike has loosened his iron grip on the organization. I think what we're seeing from the fan base is fairly interesting. A fairly large contingent would rather take Marvin back (poor game mgmt, results, etc) knowing Mike Brown gave up some control rather than bring in an unknown who more than likely will bow to MB's demands even though the new coach could be more talented than Marvin. In my heart of hearts, I do want Marvin back for reasons already mentioned but I know there is very little chance it happens. [/quote] I think you hit it on the head here. Somehow Marvin changed the argument from "Am I a good coach" to "Do you want an indoor practice facility and more scouts.....well if you do you need me back." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294093870' post='957070'] Marvin has it good. Anything that goes wrong with the organization its on Mike Brown and not Marvin. Marvin has been bad for 3 years. I wanted him gone last year. [/quote] Has Marvin made mistakes? Yes. Has Marvin been here for 20 years of this shit? No. If your foundation is bad your house will always fall.... We as Bengals fans try to ignore MB's ineptitude at times so we can have some kind of enjoyment and hope for the team all the while knowing MB is still here and still as stubborn as ever..... Marvin got Mike to make some improvements, but it is still not enough for a consistent winner. Marvin wants more changes and I agree with him... If Marvin gets Mike to make at least a couple more changes and stays....good for him and great for the fans. If he can't then he should leave and have success some where else where he will get the tools he needs to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutforlife591 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'd just like to add that it is so painfully obvious that it does matter to players if there a practice facility or not. And when you add it to everything else, as a list of negatives, it matters. Training camp facilities suck, no bubble, few local endorsements, tiny nightlife, hard to pro-bowl etc etc etc. If we're small town market, fine, but we should do everything we can to mitigate the negatives. Furthermore, Marvin started his most recent campaign for more change coming off his division stomping 2009 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='mullichicken25' timestamp='1294094124' post='957076'] it seems like some people are trying to skew the miserable state of the bengals right now to be entirely Mike Browns fault it looks to me like he took a division winning (and AFC north sweeping) team and added a hall of fame receiver and a stellar draft...the dude couldnt have done much more to put this team in position to win the super bowl this season...i dont remember hearing much opposition to anything that happened this offseason, besides the bryant fiasco the players and coaches shit the bed hard this year and theres no way around it, as far as im concerned Mike Brown did his part now im not saying he's wonderful, or has a great track record, or that serious changes shouldnt be made in the way he runs things..... im just saying that from his perspective, he probablly thinks that he gave the coaches as good of a cast as possible and they fucked it up real hard [/quote] You dont get it. Marvin got the good players Mike Brown got the bad players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294094216' post='957081'] You dont get it. Marvin got the good players Mike Brown got the bad players. [/quote] I guess that goes for Lebeau, Coslet, Shula and Wyche too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Are we in a better place then 2000, Yes. Do we still need a great deal of room to grow? Yes. Keeping Marvin Lewis who was 4-12 and awful this year is a sign of not moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullichicken25 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294094367' post='957083'] Are we in a better place then 2000, Yes. Do we still need a great deal of room to grow? Yes. Keeping Marvin Lewis who was 4-12 and awful this year is a sign of not moving forward. [/quote] i'd argue that keeping marvin while showing brat the door would be a sign of moving forward and possiblly the best option for the team...just cause i dont know about the quality of coach that will be replacing marvin basically, im pretty sure we can get considerablly worse than Marvin...but i havent been convinced that we can get worse than Brat right now for this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294094216' post='957081'] You dont get it. Marvin got the good players Mike Brown got the bad players. [/quote] you know that's not what people are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 Anyway, how many Marvin threads are we going to have around here? There is at least 6 on the 1st page alone. I am going to start merging shit into a MEGA Marvin thread if it continues. I am tired of reading/saying the same crap all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsdave985 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1294094312' post='957082'] I guess that goes for Lebeau, Coslet, Shula and Wyche too.... [/quote] we had good players when those guys coached??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='bengalsdave985' timestamp='1294095273' post='957095'] we had good players when those guys coached??? [/quote] That was kind of the point... What changed when Marvin was hired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='bengalsdave985' timestamp='1294095273' post='957095'] we had good players when those guys coached??? [/quote] We should have. We were picking in the top 10 almost every year. Talk about swinging and missing at everything ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted January 3, 2011 Report Share Posted January 3, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294093870' post='957070'] Marvin has it good. Anything that goes wrong with the organization its on Mike Brown and not Marvin. Marvin has been bad for 3 years. [b]I wanted him gone last year.[/b] [/quote] See, to much smelling the "garage cleaning" fluids isn't good for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccartman2 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294092480' post='957047'] Thats a gross oversimplification. You think a coach leaving after a 4-12 season does not show that the franchise is seeking organizational progress towards a winning organization. Did everyone just forget how awfule we were this year. We were awful. [/quote] Looked pretty decent at the end of the year when we were finished with all that Tocho show bullshit. I'm guessing it wasn't Marvin's idea to throw 500+ times this season, even with TO. But suit yourself. It was an awful year, but there is more to blame then just the head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='ccartman2' timestamp='1294103448' post='957189'] Looked pretty decent at the end of the year when we were finished with all that Tocho show bullshit. I'm guessing it wasn't Marvin's idea to throw 500+ times this season, even with TO. But suit yourself. It was an awful year, but there is more to blame then just the head coach. [/quote] How many years do we look ok at the end of the year. Its the oldest trick in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 I feel like Bengals fans are an abused women who keeps going back to her man because the next man might be worse. A coach who would be getting fired anywhere else is now setting the parameters of his return. He should be begging for the Bengals to take him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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