cincity Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 "Not as old as the losing." The Bengals haven't lit up the league the last 7 years, but they've had only two horrible years since 2002.. If Carson would have been healthy the year he got hurt. Marvin would have a winning record as a HC... This gloom and doom is really getting old.. Time to get a new team if you don't see this. Stop listening to all the talking heads that don't really evaluate the Bengals and really look at how this team has competed every year since Marvin has been the HC... I believe last year was an anomaly, IMO T.O. Really fucked up the chemistry, that's why I didn't like him coming in.. Everyone had their roles, and they knew their roles and their Identity, and were proud of it... No it didn't always click, but it won a division championship, and swept the division, even with the NFL network darling Stealers and Ravens. It's amazing.. You hate the front office, you hate the head coach, so why even be a SUPPORTIVE fan of the Cincinnati Bengals. No one is holding a gun to your heads.. I'm not homer, I'm not looking at this team with striped-colored glasses. But the truth is, how many franchises REALLY have a chance at winning every year? Just a few and even the Stealers missed the playoffs two years ago. This team has a slew of young players, good young players that really want to be here and want to play hard for the organization, if that wasn't the case, then why did thy have 40-45 players come in for two weeks and work out when they didn't have to.. There is a want and a will to win on this team. Bottom line, support the players now, don't worry about who they don't have. The players, not the front office, is why I root for this team. If you don't want to do that ,and bitch and moan about not signing someone that isn't on the team, then follow the team that your favorite players are on and support that team.. That's what I do in the NBA.. I love the Celtics for Ray, KG and the "Truf"!!!! Be a Patriots fan if you really loved Chad that much.. Be a Texans fan if you really loved J.Joe that much, and stop trying to infect positive Bengals fans with all the doom and gloom. I know this team isn't the best but I love the effort they put forth... (steps off the soap box and returns to his corner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 They need to upgrade the music in PBS first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 So, you like the losing?[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1312047164' post='1007517'] They need to upgrade the music in PBS first. [/quote] Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted July 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1312047177' post='1007518'] So, you like the losing? [/quote] Jamie where in my post does it say "I like losing"??? If you really want to support a winning team, then go be a Pats fan...... You know what you get here.. I like the players on the team... I'm not losing anything.. I'm in the military.. this isn't what I do for a living.. I like rooting for the Cincinnati Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='cincity' timestamp='1312047020' post='1007514'] "Not as old as the losing." The Bengals haven't lit up the league the last 7 years, but they've had only two horrible years since 2002.. If Carson would have been healthy the year he got hurt. Marvin would have a winning record as a HC... This gloom and doom is really getting old.. Time to get a new team if you don't see this. Stop listening to all the talking heads that don't really evaluate the Bengals and really look at how this team has competed every year since Marvin has been the HC... I believe last year was an anomaly, IMO T.O. Really fucked up the chemistry, that's why I didn't like him coming in.. Everyone had their roles, and they knew their roles and their Identity, and were proud of it... No it didn't always click, but it won a division championship, and swept the division, even with the NFL network darling Stealers and Ravens. It's amazing.. You hate the front office, you hate the head coach, so why even be a SUPPORTIVE fan of the Cincinnati Bengals. No one is holding a gun to your heads.. I'm not homer, I'm not looking at this team with striped-colored glasses. But the truth is, how many franchises REALLY have a chance at winning every year? Just a few and even the Stealers missed the playoffs two years ago. This team has a slew of young players, good young players that really want to be here and want to play hard for the organization, if that wasn't the case, then why did thy have 40-45 players come in for two weeks and work out when they didn't have to.. There is a want and a will to win on this team. Bottom line, support the players now, don't worry about who they don't have. [b]The players, not the front office, is why I root for this team.[/b] If you don't want to do that ,and bitch and moan about not signing someone that isn't on the team, then follow the team that your favorite players are on and support that team.. That's what I do in the NBA.. I love the Celtics for Ray, KG and the "Truf"!!!! [b]Be a Patriots fan if you really loved Chad that much.. Be a Texans fan if you really loved J.Joe that much[/b], and stop trying to infect positive Bengals fans with all the doom and gloom. I know this team isn't the best but I love the effort they put forth... (steps off the soap box and returns to his corner) [/quote] These statements do not align. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='cincity' timestamp='1312047356' post='1007523'] Jamie where in my post does it say "I like losing"??? If you really want to support a winning team, then go be a Pats fan...... You know what you get here.. I like the players on the team... I'm not losing anything.. I'm in the military.. this isn't what I do for a living.. I like rooting for the Cincinnati Bengals. [/quote] So then when Marvin said when he was signed here that the goal was to win a championship he was just kidding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted July 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 YOu really think he hasnt tried? Theyve won two division Championships, and the year CP got hurt, They were probably one of the top two teams in the AFC... They've tried.. The thing is, Their job isn't like yours where you basically control your mission or work getting accomplished. There are 31 other teams that want the exact same thing they want. So there is Hellified competition.. Even the best salesmen in the world doesn't make the most money of all the salesmen in the world, because there are millions and millions of others trying to do the same thing.. I believe Marvin has tried, and he has fielded some competitive teams.. This is probably the first year since Carson was inserted into the starting lineup that I don't think they have a chance to win the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincity Posted July 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1312047724' post='1007529'] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI [/quote] So that's your response.. Nuff said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='cincity' timestamp='1312047020' post='1007514'] "Not as old as the losing." The Bengals haven't lit up the league the last 7 years, but they've had only two horrible years since 2002.. If Carson would have been healthy the year he got hurt. Marvin would have a winning record as a HC... This gloom and doom is really getting old.. Time to get a new team if you don't see this. Stop listening to all the talking heads that don't really evaluate the Bengals and really look at how this team has competed every year since Marvin has been the HC... I believe last year was an anomaly, IMO T.O. Really fucked up the chemistry, that's why I didn't like him coming in.. Everyone had their roles, and they knew their roles and their Identity, and were proud of it... No it didn't always click, but it won a division championship, and swept the division, even with the NFL network darling Stealers and Ravens. It's amazing.. You hate the front office, you hate the head coach, so why even be a SUPPORTIVE fan of the Cincinnati Bengals. No one is holding a gun to your heads.. I'm not homer, I'm not looking at this team with striped-colored glasses. But the truth is, how many franchises REALLY have a chance at winning every year? Just a few and even the Stealers missed the playoffs two years ago. This team has a slew of young players, good young players that really want to be here and want to play hard for the organization, if that wasn't the case, then why did thy have 40-45 players come in for two weeks and work out when they didn't have to.. There is a want and a will to win on this team. Bottom line, support the players now, don't worry about who they don't have. The players, not the front office, is why I root for this team. If you don't want to do that ,and bitch and moan about not signing someone that isn't on the team, then follow the team that your favorite players are on and support that team.. That's what I do in the NBA.. I love the Celtics for Ray, KG and the "Truf"!!!! Be a Patriots fan if you really loved Chad that much.. Be a Texans fan if you really loved J.Joe that much, and stop trying to infect positive Bengals fans with all the doom and gloom. I know this team isn't the best but I love the effort they put forth... (steps off the soap box and returns to his corner) [/quote] 1. I'm basically a lifelong Cincy guy who has been a Bengals fan since birth. I'm not a casual fan who started following the team when Ocho got here, so why would I switch to rooting for a different team? 2. Just because I'm a Cincy guy and Bengals fan, that doesn't mean I can't point out management failures when I see them. 3. Let me point out what my perspective and you tell me why I shouldn't criticize the organization: -A team coming off of a bad 4-12 season that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years. -A team that came into the offseason with nearly 40 million in cap space before any moves. -A team that won't have to pay its 3 highest paid guys (Carson-retired, Chad-trade, Odom-cut) -A team that let its only big money FA, Jonathan Joseph, get away to the Texans -A team that will likely sign 4 outside FAs: a $3 million a year LB who lost his starting job on the Raiders, a $4-5 million a year LG who should be solid but unspectacular, and hopefully some sort of CB, likely a nickle caliber guy, a backup QB in Gradkowski. -A team that will probably go into the 2011 season approximately $40 million under the cap. That last one is the kicker for me. With the way revenue sharing is setup in the NFL and the sweetheart stadium deal Brown has, there is absolutely no excuse for the team not spending money to try to compete. If you think that as a lifelong fan I can't complain about that, you are free to your opinion, but I disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1312047724' post='1007529'] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI [/quote] Oh, god damn that's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='cincity' timestamp='1312047834' post='1007531'] So that's your response.. Nuff said... [/quote] When this team lost Pollack/Thurman. What exactly did they go do to replace them with proven talent? They drafted Brooks. When this team lost Levi/Willie. What exactly did they go do to replace them with proven talent? They moved Whit to T, and only this year replaced him with someone who wasnt a UFA or journeyman. They try by replacing guys with issues in spots they lose players. I'm sorry but I dont agree that they are doing everything they could be. 'Nuff Said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1312048011' post='1007534'] 3. Let me point out what my perspective and you tell me why I shouldn't criticize the organization: [/quote] Exactly what good is it going to do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1312048011' post='1007534'] 1. I'm basically a lifelong Cincy guy who has been a Bengals fan since birth. I'm not a casual fan who started following the team when Ocho got here, so why would I switch to rooting for a different team? 2. Just because I'm a Cincy guy and Bengals fan, that doesn't mean I can't point out management failures when I see them. 3. Let me point out what my perspective and you tell me why I shouldn't criticize the organization: -A team coming off of a bad 4-12 season that hasn't won a playoff game in 20 years. -A team that came into the offseason with nearly 40 million in cap space before any moves. -A team that won't have to pay its 3 highest paid guys (Carson-retired, Chad-trade, Odom-cut) -A team that let its only big money FA, Jonathan Joseph, get away to the Texans -A team that will likely sign 4 outside FAs: a $3 million a year LB who lost his starting job on the Raiders, a $4-5 million a year LG who should be solid but unspectacular, and hopefully some sort of CB, likely a nickle caliber guy, a backup QB in Gradkowski. -A team that will probably go into the 2011 season approximately $40 million under the cap. That last one is the kicker for me. With the way revenue sharing is setup in the NFL and the sweetheart stadium deal Brown has, there is absolutely no excuse for the team not spending money to try to compete. If you think that as a lifelong fan I can't complain about that, you are free to your opinion, but I disagree with it. [/quote] +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Nice post, cincity. Defeatism is like a slowly-spreading disease. When the objections first arise, you can attempt to rebut with some logic, mixed with facts. When they continue, and begin to rise to the level of frustration (nee anger), you attempt to understand, empathize, then reason. When they continue to the point of whining and bellyaching, you have a choice to either get locked in mortal combat, cajole (as you have attempted here), or just don't read/respond. I recall the great words of someone/sometime at a game in response to some chap who was screaming epithets at the top of his lungs at the players on the field: "they can't hear you". Such as it is with the incessant complaining/bellyaching/sarcasm here and other boards: "they can't hear you". Don't go to games, some might say? Sure..that is a good one. In my 32 years as a season ticket holder...the veteran attendees will always show up. Then the casual fans...then the curious. I tell the WDR crowd to try and herd those cats. Oh, and see you at PBS this fall, Scharm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1312048195' post='1007539'] When this team lost Pollack/Thurman. What exactly did they go do to replace them with proven talent? They drafted Brooks. When this team lost Levi/Willie. What exactly did they go do to replace them with proven talent? They moved Whit to T, and only this year replaced him with someone who wasnt a UFA or journeyman. They try by replacing guys with issues in spots they lose players. I'm sorry but I dont agree that they are doing everything they could be. 'Nuff Said [/quote] It goes without saying they aren't doing everything they could be if they end up being $40 million under the cap. The only point of cincity's that I agree with in the whole long post is that the W/L record so far in the Marvin era isn't quite as bad as the media makes it out to be. There were 2 good seasons, 3 awful seasons and a few mediocre 8-8 seasons. Nothing to write home about, below .500 overall, but not a colossal failure as many make it out to be. However, even with that, its easy to point out that Marvin goes into this season well below .500 and with a rookie QB and pretty mediocre overall talent, is likely to continue to fall further and further below .500 in the next year or two. I don't even want to think about what the Bengals overall record is since Mike Brown took over. I'm guessing its 100 games below .500 or something equally appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='spicoli-2' timestamp='1312048286' post='1007541'] Exactly what good is it going to do you? [/quote] I don't know, explain the point of this post to me. Are you asking in a metaphysical sense what the cosmic importance of a message board post is? Help me out with what sort of response you are seeking and I'll do my best to answer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1312048546' post='1007549'] It goes without saying they aren't doing everything they could be if they end up being $40 million under the cap. The only point of cincity's that I agree with in the whole long post is that the W/L record so far in the Marvin era isn't quite as bad as the media makes it out to be. There were 2 good seasons, 3 awful seasons and a few mediocre 8-8 seasons. Nothing to write home about, below .500 overall, but not a colossal failure as many make it out to be. However, even with that, its easy to point out that Marvin goes into this season well below .500 and with a rookie QB and pretty mediocre overall talent, is likely to continue to fall further and further below .500 in the next year or two. I don't even want to think about what the Bengals overall record is since Mike Brown took over. I'm guessing its 100 games below .500 or something equally appalling. [/quote] Fastest owner to 200 losses and apparently its not ok to be not ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccartman2 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Tell you what, I've rooted for the Bengals since I can remember. In the 80s, they built championship caliber clubs. The 90s where a joke. The last decade, they have tried to put pieces together, but way too cheaply. They say they want to build through the draft, but then let key pieces go in free agency that they drafted. The team needs veteran leadership as well as young guys, but we always seem stuck with young promising guys and cast-offs from other teams, most teams won't touch. As Jamie said, when we lose a key piece, we don't go out in free agency and try to get the same caliber guy to replace them, so our team is never complete. Therefore, a lot of us bitch. When it comes to the team, I am usually one of the orange covered glasses guys, but it's tough to do when it is always screwed up. And to have a winner, I shouldn't have to switch teams. The league isn't set up like baseball, where it is tough for a small market team to compete. I root for a team, and not the individual players. I want my team to be competitive in win, no be a laughing stock. The Bengals are, and always be my team. It's time for the team to step up and be worth rooting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1312048195' post='1007539'] When this team lost Pollack/Thurman. What exactly did they go do to replace them with proven talent? They drafted Brooks. When this team lost Levi/Willie. What exactly did they go do to replace them with proven talent? They moved Whit to T, and only this year replaced him with someone who wasnt a UFA or journeyman. They try by replacing guys with issues in spots they lose players. I'm sorry but I dont agree that they are doing everything they could be. 'Nuff Said [/quote] Exactly. The Bengals do not commit the resources as in $$$$$$$$ to have a quick reload cycle for players. The do not find them at a rate that allows for consistent winning. Really it's insulting. Take 10 mil of cap room that you short. Instead of sticking in your pocket. Put in some safe investment and use it to fund a God damn player personnel staff/facilities for the next 5/6 years. Is that so fucking impossible? The God damn model has proven to work in similar markets and they make fucking money just the same. Then when you lose a J.joe you got some pieces to play with and some credibility that it won't be a hole for multiple seasons afterward. It's not really that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1312048483' post='1007545'] Nice post, cincity. Defeatism is like a slowly-spreading disease. When the objections first arise, you can attempt to rebut with some logic, mixed with facts. When they continue, and begin to rise to the level of frustration (nee anger), you attempt to understand, empathize, then reason. When they continue to the point of whining and bellyaching, you have a choice to either get locked in mortal combat, cajole (as you have attempted here), or just don't read/respond. I recall the great words of someone/sometime at a game in response to some chap who was screaming epithets at the top of his lungs at the players on the field: "they can't hear you". Such as it is with the incessant complaining/bellyaching/sarcasm here and other boards: "they can't hear you". Don't go to games, some might say? Sure..that is a good one. In my 32 years as a season ticket holder...the veteran attendees will always show up. Then the casual fans...then the curious. I tell the WDR crowd to try and herd those cats. Oh, and see you at PBS this fall, Scharm. [/quote] No offense, but positive posts and negative posts are equally "heard," which is to say not at all. I'm actually really looking forward to watching this team this year. I already love AJ Green and I'm excited to see what Gruden/Dalton can do with the weapons at WR/TE. I'll probably go to 2 or 3 games and watch the rest on my couch. I enjoy the tailgating and gameday experience but its becoming harder and harder to find people who want to go down there with me and spend money on the product. That being said, I'm not going to lie, free agency has been pretty disappointing. Maybe my pointing that out makes me a bad fan or whatever in many people's mind. If so, everyone is free to their opinion. Optimist, pessimist or somewhere in between, it doesn't make anyone not a fan to me. Hell, anyone who cares enough about this crappy franchise to post on a Bengals message board is good in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1312048994' post='1007561'] Exactly. The Bengals do not commit the resources as in $$$$$$$$ to have a quick reload cycle for players. The do not find them at a rate that allows for consistent winning. Really it's insulting. Take 10 mil of cap room that you short. Instead of sticking in your pocket. Put in some safe investment and use it to fund a God damn player personnel staff/facilities for the next 5/6 years. Is that so fucking impossible? The God damn model has proven to work in similar markets and they make fucking money just the same. Then when you lose a J.joe you got some pieces to play with and some credibility that it won't be a hole for multiple seasons afterward. It's not really that hard. [/quote] Shouldn't be that hard, and yet our owner doesn't see it. As you said scharm, the model has been there for decades. End of venting for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='ccartman2' timestamp='1312048881' post='1007558'] Tell you what, I've rooted for the Bengals since I can remember. In the 80s, they built championship caliber clubs. The 90s where a joke. The last decade, they have tried to put pieces together, but way too cheaply. They say they want to build through the draft, but then let key pieces go in free agency that they drafted. The team needs veteran leadership as well as young guys, but we always seem stuck with young promising guys and cast-offs from other teams, most teams won't touch. As Jamie said, when we lose a key piece, we don't go out in free agency and try to get the same caliber guy to replace them, so our team is never complete. Therefore, a lot of us bitch. When it comes to the team, I am usually one of the orange covered glasses guys, but it's tough to do when it is always screwed up. And to have a winner, I shouldn't have to switch teams. [color="#FF0000"]The league isn't set up like baseball[/color], where it is tough for a small market team to compete. I root for a team, and not the individual players. I want my team to be competitive in win, no be a laughing stock. The Bengals are, and always be my team. It's time for the team to step up and be worth rooting for. [/quote] This cant be stressed enough, this league is all about parity, and we still cant get past ourselves. I watch teams like the Saints who used to be a laughing stock go win a superbowl, I watch the Bucs who used to be a laughing stock do the same. Hell the Pats used to be a laughing stock and now they are a class organization. Why should I have to choose another team? Why cant I hope that this stubborn old man wake up from his slumber and decide that his way isnt enough? Even the Cardnials who were once run similarally to this orginization have changed and the results show with at least winning the NFC championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='cincity' timestamp='1312047020' post='1007514'] "Not as old as the losing." The Bengals haven't lit up the league the last 7 years, but they've had only two horrible years since 2002.. If Carson would have been healthy the year he got hurt. Marvin would have a winning record as a HC... This gloom and doom is really getting old.. Time to get a new team if you don't see this. Stop listening to all the talking heads that don't really evaluate the Bengals and really look at how this team has competed every year since Marvin has been the HC... I believe last year was an anomaly, IMO T.O. Really fucked up the chemistry, that's why I didn't like him coming in.. Everyone had their roles, and they knew their roles and their Identity, and were proud of it... No it didn't always click, but it won a division championship, and swept the division, even with the NFL network darling Stealers and Ravens. It's amazing.. You hate the front office, you hate the head coach, so why even be a SUPPORTIVE fan of the Cincinnati Bengals. No one is holding a gun to your heads.. I'm not homer, I'm not looking at this team with striped-colored glasses. But the truth is, how many franchises REALLY have a chance at winning every year? Just a few and even the Stealers missed the playoffs two years ago. This team has a slew of young players, good young players that really want to be here and want to play hard for the organization, if that wasn't the case, then why did thy have 40-45 players come in for two weeks and work out when they didn't have to.. There is a want and a will to win on this team. Bottom line, support the players now, don't worry about who they don't have. The players, not the front office, is why I root for this team. If you don't want to do that ,and bitch and moan about not signing someone that isn't on the team, then follow the team that your favorite players are on and support that team.. That's what I do in the NBA.. I love the Celtics for Ray, KG and the "Truf"!!!! Be a Patriots fan if you really loved Chad that much.. Be a Texans fan if you really loved J.Joe that much, and stop trying to infect positive Bengals fans with all the doom and gloom. I know this team isn't the best but I love the effort they put forth... (steps off the soap box and returns to his corner) [/quote] you mention being in the military. i thank you for your service. but do you think there's a chance that your environment gives you a different outlook than the average fan (or citizen)? you're forced to accept whatever shit sandwich that gets thrown your way and don't dare complain, or your experience will only go downhill from there. right or wrong, that's just the way is is. it takes that mentality to build a strong military. so maybe you're a bit more willing to accept whatever mike brown does compared to the average person, just due to the nature of your environment? it's a point to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 [quote name='scharm' timestamp='1312048994' post='1007561'] Exactly. The Bengals do not commit the resources as in $$$$$$$$ to have a quick reload cycle for players. The do not find them at a rate that allows for consistent winning. Really it's insulting. Take 10 mil of cap room that you short. Instead of sticking in your pocket. Put in some safe investment and use it to fund a God damn player personnel staff/facilities for the next 5/6 years. Is that so fucking impossible? The God damn model has proven to work in similar markets and they make fucking money just the same. Then when you lose a J.joe you got some pieces to play with and some credibility that it won't be a hole for multiple seasons afterward. It's not really that hard. [/quote] For fuck's sake even the Brown's finally got that point when they hired Holmgren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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