The Good, Bad, and Ugly

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1315840374' post='1030074']

The one where Dalton got hurt came from the RG spot, so hopefully it improves when Bobbie is back from his suspension.
[/quote]


I watched that one multiple times and couldn't tell. Taylor looked to be on a stunt, Boling was blocking someone else. Taylor I think splits Boling and Andre, Cook tries to get him and just misses.

Really not sure who was at fault between the 3 of them.

[phillybengal]

Yeah, Simpson was rough yesterday and I didn't see Shipley get thrown too?

Gresham is nice and Dalton looked pretty good I thought. Nice sharp passes.

[texbengal]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1315831990' post='1029986']



No offense, but that's just silly. What happens if the Bengals turn it over on the next play? If you have a chance to make it a 2 score game, you do so. Now, if you want to say he should have done what the WR for Denver did in the 2009 game and run down the goal line until someone came to force him in and burn some clock, I would agree. But you don't take a TD off the board. Ever.
[/quote]

The Browns had no TOs left. If during that run, Benson falls at the one or two, it's game over. They run out the clock, and the Browns can't stop it.

As it was, there were almost 2 minutes left. Cribbs is a difference-making KOR - who knows, maybe they score (Bengals had already given up two long plays on busted coverage), get the onsides kick, and get a FG. Improbable yes, but I think it's less probable that the Bengals fumble near the Browns' end zone. Maurice Jones-Drew did the same thing I (and I believe yesterday, Amish) were advocating, and they ran out the clock and won. I just didn't think it was a smart play by Benson. I'm glad they won, just thought the percentages would have been better the other way.

[texbengal]

[quote name='phillybengal' timestamp='1315840592' post='1030078']
Yeah, Simpson was rough yesterday and I didn't see Shipley get thrown too?

Gresham is nice and Dalton looked pretty good I thought. Nice sharp passes.
[/quote]

Ship was targeted once, and the pass was broken up. Grad didn't lead him enough, IMO. If it'd been a bit more outside, Ship would have had it.

[scharm]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1315840374' post='1030074']

The one where Dalton got hurt came from the RG spot, so hopefully it improves when Bobbie is back from his suspension.
[/quote]

I thought the two sacks from their MLB looked like he beat no one and just ran to the sack. That's a piss poor job.

Whit got beat on a cheap one but he still didn't hold his block. The guy came off him when Dalton stepped up.

Overall the Browns brought heat and the bengals didn't protect very well at all. Teams are going to do this until they can get the timing and space down to hit plays down the field.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1315840652' post='1030079']

The Browns had no TOs left. If during that run, Benson falls at the one or two, it's game over. They run out the clock, and the Browns can't stop it.

As it was, there were almost 2 minutes left. Cribbs is a difference-making KOR - who knows, maybe they score (Bengals had already given up two long plays on busted coverage), get the onsides kick, and get a FG. Improbable yes, but I think it's less probable that the Bengals fumble near the Browns' end zone. Maurice Jones-Drew did the same thing I (and I believe yesterday, Amish) were advocating, and they ran out the clock and won. I just didn't think it was a smart play by Benson. I'm glad they won, just thought the percentages would have been better the other way.
[/quote]


if the benson td would have only put them up by one score I'd agree. But only being up 3, I take the TD no questions asked and take a 2 score lead. It was still raining at that point and our backup QB was in. Who knows if the next play the snap is fumbled?

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1315841151' post='1030086']


if the benson td would have only put them up by one score I'd agree. But only being up 3, I take the TD no questions asked and take a 2 score lead. It was still raining at that point and our backup QB was in. Who knows if the next play the snap is fumbled?
[/quote]

Sorry - I like letting our Defense further humilate the Browns was a valuable object lesson. Don't rob MJ of his pick/fumbe recovery.
You can get too cute some times. Score, and crush them and hear the lamentations of ther women...

[scharm]

I was saying take the TD although it could have worked out by keeping the ball.


The most classic moment in the game was the opposite endzone view and the looks of disbelief from the dawgpound as Ced comes charging towards them. It's great. Alot of O-faces, head shaking, etc.

[scharm]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1315841151' post='1030086']


if the benson td would have only put them up by one score I'd agree. But only being up 3, I take the TD no questions asked and take a 2 score lead. It was still raining at that point and our backup QB was in. Who knows if the next play the snap is fumbled?
[/quote]

I haven't done all the math but if a TD doesn't put you up by at least one score then the team has to be losing or tied prior to scoring?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1315841585' post='1030090']

I haven't done all the math but if a TD doesn't put you up by at least one score then the team has to be losing or tied prior to scoring?
[/quote]

yes.


Basic point being, a 3pt lead wasn't comfortable enough a lead where I pass on taking the TD there.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1315841725' post='1030093']

yes.


Basic point being, a 3pt lead wasn't comfortable enough a lead where I pass on taking the TD there.
[/quote]
Its hard to believe this is even being discussed. The only thought on Benson's mind when he got the ball was GET THAT FIRST DOWN. Nobody spent 2 minutes with CED and went thru all the different scenarios with him. Once he saw daylight and the endzone he did EXACTLY what he has been trained to do since day 1 of Pee Wee......SCORE.

[scharm]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1315841725' post='1030093']

yes.


Basic point being, a 3pt lead wasn't comfortable enough a lead where I pass on taking the TD there.
[/quote]

I agree with you.

All you have do is watch Notre Dame these past two weeks and it's an easy case to take the score everytime. Take the points when you can get them, they've turned it over so many times in the red zone its ridiculous and it's opened doors for the other team.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Both senarios have the pitfalls. In either case there would have to be breakdowns on other plays for either senario to blow up. Take the TD.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1315840740' post='1030081']

Ship was targeted once, and the pass was broken up. Grad didn't lead him enough, IMO. If it'd been a bit more outside, Ship would have had it.
[/quote]


IIRC they got penalized on that play.

[Cricket]

Has there EVER been a fumble on a kneel-down snap? I don't think so.

Has a team ever come back from being down by 10 with a minute and a half to go to win the game? Yes.

If Ced goes down at the one, all the Bengals need to do is snap the ball and kneel down one time. Game over.

Can't really fault Ced for running it in...certainly not enough to put it in the "ugly" category, but the Browns had a better chance (however small) of winning the game by Cedric running it into the endzone instead of downing it at the one.

In addition, instead of one kneel-down snap, you now have your defense on the field for at least four more plays with the increased risk of injury. I'll bet that if Hall had torn his ACL in the last minute, or if Dunlap was seriously injured, there'd be more of you seeing the wisdom of the kneel-down.

[Jamie_B]

I would think that would run a risk of Ced getting hurt by just downing it if one of their guys was remotely close to him and able to tackle him while he was downing it.

[sois]

This is a stupid argument.

[Cricket]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1315843611' post='1030102']I would think that would run a risk of Ced getting hurt by just downing it if one of their guys was remotely close to him and able to tackle him while he was downing it.[/quote]


...but none of their guys was remotely close to him.




[quote name='sois' timestamp='1315843733' post='1030103']This is a stupid argument.[/quote]

...only if you don't understand probabilities...and how to use it to your advantage.

[Bengalee]

They are totally eating their guts in Cleveland today. Wow. It's kind of fun to listen to.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?s=wknr-am

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='Cricket' timestamp='1315843351' post='1030101']
Has there EVER been a fumble on a kneel-down snap? I don't think so.
[/quote]
I saw one in a college game for the first time on Saturday. Can't remember what team... One of the o-lineman recovered it.

[texbengal]

[quote name='Cricket' timestamp='1315843351' post='1030101']
Has there EVER been a fumble on a kneel-down snap? I don't think so.

Has a team ever come back from being down by 10 with a minute and a half to go to win the game? Yes.

If Ced goes down at the one, all the Bengals need to do is snap the ball and kneel down one time. Game over.

Can't really fault Ced for running it in...certainly not enough to put it in the "ugly" category, but the Browns had a better chance (however small) of winning the game by Cedric running it into the endzone instead of downing it at the one.

In addition, instead of one kneel-down snap, you now have your defense on the field for at least four more plays with the increased risk of injury. I'll bet that if Hall had torn his ACL in the last minute, or if Dunlap was seriously injured, there'd be more of you seeing the wisdom of the kneel-down.
[/quote]


Good points... maybe the ugly rating on my part was excessive. I just feel sometimes guys don't think enough. But maybe I was asking too much there. I've seen it happen - guys like Jones-Drew, Stokely vs. the Bengals a few years ago - just head-up plays. On the negative side, I also see it at the end of games sometimes, when the team that's behind throws a long pass into enemy territory on 4th down. Instead of intercepting it, knock it down - you give your team better field position.

But I wasn't being excessive on the running OOB by Ced. That was dumb, pure and simple. He needs to be smarter than that... and the coaches need to be reminding guys, if they're not. In a close game when you're ahead - on a run play even if you're not getting the yards you want, make sure the clock moves. Don't help the opposition by running out of bounds.

[sois]

[quote name='Cricket' timestamp='1315843813' post='1030104']
...but none of their guys was remotely close to him.






...only if you don't understand probabilities...and how to use it to your advantage.
[/quote]

I probably understand probabilities better than anyone here. Yall are talking the difference between a 99.5% victory and a 98.5% victory. We're talking extreme outlyers in both cases. Negligible.

[Cricket]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1315844639' post='1030112']

I probably understand probabilities better than anyone here. Yall are talking the difference between a 99.5% victory and a 98.5% victory. We're talking extreme outlyers in both cases. Negligible.[/quote]



If it's negligible, why not take the one with the better probability...which also reduces your chances of serious injury.

[sois]

[quote name='Cricket' timestamp='1315844821' post='1030114']
If it's negligible, why not take the one with the better probability...which also reduces your chances of serious injury.
[/quote]

Well the dude with the ball in his hands probably doesn't have time to factor all that shit in. He's pretty stupid, I prefer he just score, and have the Browns hearts sink to their stomach. That kick in the balls will intangibly benefit the Bengals next time they face the Browns. Don't overlook that.

[MichaelWeston]

I was not overly impressed with anything or overly disgusted. Missed the lat 5 minutes of the game due to tivo operator error. very glad we won, not sure there was anything that makes me expect them to win a bunch more.

[Cricket]

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1315845009' post='1030117']

Well the dude with the ball in his hands probably doesn't have time to factor all that shit in. He's pretty stupid, I prefer he just score, and have the Browns hearts sink to their stomach. That kick in the balls will intangibly benefit the Bengals next time they face the Browns. Don't overlook that.[/quote]

I don't have a big problem with Cedric running it in and not realizing the "best" thing to do...I'd rather him concentrate on getting through the line rather than thinking about too much stuff.

Those of us who have pointed out that the best play was to down the ball have met with opposition, and I'm just pointing out why it's the best decision.