Lack of Sacks Doesn't Lie...

[mongo]

[size=6][size=3][quote][/size][/size][size=6][b]Lack of sacks doesn't lie when it comes to five best tackle tandems[/b][/size]

[img]http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/cbss/ui5/authors/80x80/7193.png[/img]

[b]By [url="http://www.cbssports.com/columns/writers/kirwan"]Pat Kirwan[/url] | NFL Insider[/b] June 18, 2012 12:56 PM ET


In the NFL certain combinations of reliable players can give coaches a tremendous advantage. A pair of offensive tackles that can pass block and not give up sacks means five receivers can get out when the coach so desires, or at the very least keep the quarterback upright.

In 2011 there were close to 450 sacks given up by tackles in the NFL, which equates to 14 per team, per pair of tackles. Tackles have a tough job. In fact, 28 of the thirty players that gave up sacks last season were offensive tackles, which is more than understandable when you consider just how difficult the job is in the NFL.

The reality for offensive tackles in passing situations is that they have the most significant mismatch in their athletic ability to the man they have to play against. The top pass rushers in the NFL are capable of sub 4.7 40 times, have great quickness, while offensive tackles usually are the slowest athletes on a roster. Consider that cornerbacks and wide receivers have similar athletic abilities, as do running backs compared to linebackers and safeties compared to tight ends. It just isn't like that for offensive tackles.

When it comes to offensive tackle tandems, in my opinion here are the five best teams in the NFL heading into the 2012 season. You may be surprised at a few of the groups to make the list.

[img]https://img.skitch.com/20120619-n4im12i2bm3f1ich7ryfi15u5y.png[/img]

Quarterback play, protection calls and frequency of pass plays called all play into the tackle tandem's ability to function. In the end, the biggest issue is this: Can your tackles block the rush? Any time a tandem of tackles can prevent a sack at least every 65 pass plays they are doing well.

Keep an eye on the following teams. Houston gave up on right tackle [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/424025/eric-winston"]Eric Winston[/url], and now the Chiefs are looking to capitalize with Brandon Albert on the left and Winston on the right. That should provide a tandem that gives up no more than one sack every 65 pass plays.

The Eagles may have lost [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/493695/jason-peters"]Jason Peters[/url], but they quickly grabbed [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/442266/demetress-bell"]Demetress Bell[/url] from the Bills. Bell gave up half a sack in six starts in Buffalo last year and teams up with [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/551585/todd-herremans"]Todd Herremans[/url] on the right, who gave up four sacks. The Eagles called 586 pass plays last year and their starting tackles gave up a sack once every 90 pass plays. It should be close to that again this year. Of course, with [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/12531/peyton-manning"]Peyton Manning[/url] at quarterback, Broncos tackles [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/519608/ryan-clady"]Ryan Clady[/url] and [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1116609/orlando-franklin"]Orlando Franklin[/url] will look a lot better than they did past year and should have a ratio close to one in 90 attempts.

Teams that must improve the production of the tandem of starting tackles based on last year's results include Jacksonville (25.5), Miami (20), which had a right tackle problem, Washington (20), where RG3 should help, and Dallas (19). I was surprised to see [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1631899/tyron-smith"]Tyron Smith[/url] and [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/410905/doug-free"]Doug Free[/url] both gave up 10 apiece.

Chicago (19) will improve with the Mike Tice offense and a lot less deep quarterback drops. [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1746656/jmarcus-webb"]J'Marcus Webb[/url] was blamed for the most sacks in the NFL last year with 14 and he's a better player than that.

Inside players (guards and centers) tend to have much better production in this area. The best of the best -- Eagles guard [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/416099/evan-mathis"]Evan Mathis[/url], Chargers center [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/492953/nick-hardwick"]Nick Hardwick[/url], [b]Bengals center [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1226141/kyle-cook"]Kyle Cook[/url][/b] and Ravens center [url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/12216/matt-birk"]Matt Birk[/url] -- got the job done in 2011 and will do it again in 2012. They deserve to be recognized as the unsung heroes of pass protection. Other than Mathis, who missed one game, [b]the other three started every game. And as a group, they gave up a grand total of one sack in 2,979 pass plays.[/b]

Finally, as one offensive line coach said to me this week when discussing tackle tandems...[/quote]

[url="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19376713/lack-of-sacks-doesnt-lie-when-it-comes-to-five-best-tackle-tandems"]Rest of the article[/url]


Big props for Andrew, Andre, and Kyle in that article! Adding Zeitler and Wharton really has me excited!!

[Bengals1181]

there's no way Whit gave up 5 1/2 sacks last year.

[texbengal]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1340131407' post='1135910']
there's no way Whit gave up 5 1/2 sacks last year.
[/quote]

Not so sure... I remember Jeremy Mincey beat him, and so did the overaged rookie (John Chick) from Jax who looked like he jumped offsides on his sack. Plus Pernell McPhee in the Baltimore game. That's 3 right there.

I didn't think Whit had his best year last year, but it sounds like he was playing hurt for part of it.

[coup000]

I think Whit got beat on 2 consecutive plays in that baltimore game. One that resulted in intentional grounding and then the game ending sack. So he may have counted the grounding as a sack.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1340132014' post='1135911']
Not so sure... I remember Jeremy Mincey beat him, and so did the overaged rookie (John Chick) from Jax who looked like he jumped offsides on his sack. Plus Pernell McPhee in the Baltimore game. That's 3 right there.

I didn't think Whit had his best year last year, but it sounds like he was playing hurt for part of it.
[/quote]

I believe it was mincey who jumped, don't remember the chick one.


He did have a down year by his standards, but 5.5 is a bit much for him. I think its probably closer to 3.

[scharm]

I thought his position coach, who should be the ultimate authority on which player gave up the sack, had Whit down for 2 last year. I could be mixing that up with other years.

I think it's kinda hard for an outsider to properly diagnose which player is at fault for a sack. WR could run wrong route, which forces the QB hold the ball, which the tackle was setting up for a quick throw and to be in a position to cut the rusher and now he's hung out to dry.

[B.A.B.]

Now lets see how they run block

[The PatternMaster]

[quote name='B.A.B.' timestamp='1340138826' post='1135922']
Now lets see how they run block
[/quote]

I think the run game will improve with the subtraction of Benson and the addition of BGJE. Benson had opportunities to make big plays last year but he would either not have the speed to get away or he would fumble. I think Benson has been holding the offense back, I think BGJE will take it to another level.

[SocalBengalEd]

I think Whitworth needs to improve his run blocking I thought he was average at best last year.

[|Numbers|]

Lack of sacks does not always point to who your tackles are although I will agree that we probably do have one of the best set of tackles in the league. Biomechanics and Motion Analysis Laboratory had completed studies on the subject of QB's and their reaction time / release time (University of Florida). This study was done some time ago and I can not find the link anymore but Palmer had a reaction time that was considered one of the best. It appears that Dalton does a good job at this too. This could be a result of Zampese and his contact with both QBs ???

[VonBlade]

I love how over-rated sacks are. 14 per team. Just under one play for loss per game. One. Yet they are treated like the most important indicator of a defence in the world.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='VonBlade' timestamp='1340146471' post='1135934']
I love how over-rated sacks are. 14 per team. Just under one play for loss per game. One. Yet they are treated like the most important indicator of a defence in the world.
[/quote]

14 given up by the [b]Tackles[/b], not 14 total given up per team.

Plus for each sack you actually get you need to account for 1 or more additional rushed throws or thrown away passes or tips. Since these usually are drive killers, they are important.

[JC]

[quote name='VonBlade' timestamp='1340146471' post='1135934']
I love how over-rated sacks are. 14 per team. Just under one play for loss per game. One. Yet they are treated like the most important indicator of a defence in the world.
[/quote]
I agree. Hurries are a much more efficient stat, especially with how much better moving QB's are these days.

[coup000]

I think 4 of the last 5 superbowl winners have been in the top 3 in sacks.

[bengaled]

i hate to sound like a broken record promoting andre smith, but this article should open the eyes of the fans who have dismissed his importance in past discussions. and the thing is, this guy's game is just getting better all the time. his signing should be the first order of business.

[scharm]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1340156977' post='1135953']

I agree. Hurries are a much more efficient stat, especially with how much better moving QB's are these days.
[/quote]


I agree a good example is: Dunlap last year took forever to record first sack, but at the same time was the best pass rusher on the team despite not recording a sack.

It's another reason why you must be skeptical of an outsider assigning a sack to a olinemen. A sack given up by a tackle could be the result of a te getting beat and flusing the Qb into a wrong spot.

[texbengal]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1340134429' post='1135914']
I thought his position coach, who should be the ultimate authority on which player gave up the sack, had Whit down for 2 last year. I could be mixing that up with other years.

I think it's kinda hard for an outsider to properly diagnose which player is at fault for a sack. WR could run wrong route, which forces the QB hold the ball, which the tackle was setting up for a quick throw and to be in a position to cut the rusher and now he's hung out to dry.
[/quote]

To some extent, I agree... particularly if there are "games" that a DL uses where a DE loops inside. That happened in the past with Whit where Freeney did that, for example; that's not on the T... someone inside missed an assignment, or just didn't block the guy well enough.

But I remember several instances last year where Whit just flat out got beat. Chick, for example, beat him at the snap and was on Dalton in a flash... It wasn't hard to determine fault on that one.

[texbengal]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1340164524' post='1135987']
i hate to sound like a broken record promoting andre smith, but this article should open the eyes of the fans who have dismissed his importance in past discussions. and the thing is, this guy's game is just getting better all the time. his signing should be the first order of business.
[/quote]

That's a good point. What I liked about his performance last year was his focus... In the past, he showed well at times, but other times it just looked like he had brain cramps where he got sloppy with his technique, or whatever. But in 2011, he was consistent.

I still think he can be a more dominant player, but he definitely answered critics who said he couldn't play, or wasn't a guy you could count on.

[fredtoast]

Too bad we had to roll out Dalton most of the time we tried to throw the ball down the field. Our pass protection was not that good.

[scharm]

[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1340196364' post='1136008']
Too bad we had to roll out Dalton most of the time we tried to throw the ball down the field. Our pass protection was not that good.
[/quote]

So lines that give up more sacks are playing just straight up all the time and it's superior coaching that has the Bengal line looking so good?

Come on.

The league isn't making an emphasis on QB protection just because the Cincinnati Bengal Qb is the only one getting hit. Defense get paid too and spend a shit ton of time figuring out how to get to the QB.

To make a statement like that is completely dumb. As if the Bengals line is the only line that has to roll out a QB and the mere suggestion that it is a bad thing is crazy.

Moving the pocket is a standard deal across the league. What's next? Our line isn't good at pass pro because Andy has to check down to a hot pass because of a suspected blitz?

[fredtoast]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1340197365' post='1136014']
So lines that give up more sacks are playing just straight up all the time and it's superior coaching that has the Bengal line looking so good?

Come on.

The league isn't making an emphasis on QB protection just because the Cincinnati Bengal Qb is the only one getting hit. Defense get paid too and spend a shit ton of time figuring out how to get to the QB.

To make a statement like that is completely dumb. As if the Bengals line is the only line that has to roll out a QB and the mere suggestion that it is a bad thing is crazy.

Moving the pocket is a standard deal across the league.
[/quote]

Like every other team the Bengals would prefer to have Dalton sit in the pocket and set for his throws, but we couldn't do that because of the pressure other teams were getting on him. We gave up fewer sacks in a large part becuase we had Dalton rolling out and throwing on the run. That is a fact.

[scharm]

[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1340197711' post='1136017']


Like every other team the Bengals would prefer to have Dalton sit in the pocket and set for his throws, but we couldn't do that because of the pressure other teams were getting on him. We gave up fewer sacks in a large part becuase we had Dalton rolling out and throwing on the run. That is a fact.
[/quote]

Hogwash. I'm not a NFL defensive mind but I think some defense might have figured this out and adjusted if your point has any merit.

You act like the Bengals are the only team to move the pocket and once they do it's some unfair advantage that prevents a defense from attempting to sack the QB.

Now, I might be crazy but I'm pretty sure 100% NFL defenses watch film. I'm pretty sure 100% D-coordinators know about roll outs. I'm pretty sure even though the Bengals might have a patent on roll outs according to you, that is still requires the O-line to pass protect.

I'm 100% sure if the Bengals had to do it a significant amount of times the defense would adjust their scheme and preparation for it and normalize the situation that it still comes down to our linemen blocking their defense and not like what you are suggesting that the D-fense is a bunch of idiots that don't know what a roll out is.

If the Bengals have some special scheme as you suggest. You still can't discredit the execution of that scheme that's whole fucking point of the NFL, fred.

Are the Steelers a bunch of dumb fucking assholes that can't pass rush just because of Lebeau's scheme in your eyes?

Are you suggesting Kenny Anderson is really not a Hall of Fame QB because he was the first WCO QB? Bill Walsh isn't a Hall of Fame coach because he didn't play it straight up?

By the way screw Barry Sanders because he didn't always run to were the play was designed. Come on, your point is silly.

If by some chance you are right and we don't have good pass pro team and we've masked it with roll outs. Then more power to us and the line for making it work. It doesn't work in reverse, Fred. Innovation is rewarded in the NFL not jeered.

Judgement of pass pro is measured in hits and sacks not by the scheme you use. Just like passing game is measured in yard etc. No one sits around and says Peyton Manning really isn't a good passer because he can figure out a defense. They say he's among the great.

If the Bengals have figured this out then more power to them and the line. No disrespect Fred, but I doubt you are going to be the one that reveals the Bengals superior innvoations to the football world.

[coup000]

Silly point. Dalton did a great job of avoiding pressure and many times those plays resulted in long passes, but those were not designed roll outs. They were just good plays by a QB with great pocket awareness. Just watched highlights of last year and many of Dalton's long passes were from the pocket.

[Phatcat]

I wouldn't mind Dalton getting out of the pocket a little more on designed and relatively quick throws for those throws under 10 yards. My biggest concern isn't arm strength, but he does seem to have more than his fair share of passes knocked down at the line of scrimmage.

I really haven't watched a ton of the Saints games, but going purely off perception it seems Brees moves around a lot. I only bring up Brees because of height and doesn't appear he is a pure drop back passer, but moves around quite a bit to find the throwing lanes. Am I off base on that observation?

[fredtoast]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1340199528' post='1136020']
Hogwash. I'm not a NFL defensive mind but I think some defense might have figured this out and adjusted if your point has any merit.

[/quote]

Yes, you are correct. You are not an NFL defensive mind. Here is the way it works. Rolling the QB out does help him avoid pressure against [b]ANY[/b] defensive system There is no way that a defense can just put in a scheme that overcomes the QBs advantage in avoiding pressure by rolling out.

However the reason all teams don't do it all the time is because a QB is generally more accurate when he can set his feet in the pocket when passing, and also rolling out to one side of the field often eliminates the a portion of the field for receivers. It is a,most impossible to roll to one side and throw a pass to the short zone all the wat back across the field in the other direction.

So there is no defensive adjustment that allows the defenses to get as much pressure on a QB that is rolling out, but there are other drawbacks that keep teasm from doing it all the time.