Accountability and moves during the bye week

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='B.A.B.' timestamp='1350944058' post='1173831']
This. Best coverage backer? You are high as fuck, 1181, or just trolling super hard.
[/quote]

the best of a bad group, yep.

Doesn't make him a great coverage backer. That said, I don't think its something he's bad at either.


When Rey, and any player, screws up, its noticeable. When a player does something right, it most times goes unnoticed.


Football is a game where the really good plays stand out and the the really bad plays stand out. When a player does what he's supposed to, no one tends to notice. With Rey, he's having good plays in games, but he's not having those really good plays we all want (and need) to be seeing. So the only thing that stands out is the really bad plays.

The steelers ran 73 plays last night. Let's not be naive and think he screwed up all 73 plays just because 3-4 bad plays (which is too many) stand out.

I saw Burfict make 3-4 bad plays last night too. The difference is, Burfict offset that with 5-6 really good/great plays. Rey isn't doing the same. However, just because he's not making those really good plays doesn't mean he's bad on every play.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350942824' post='1173828']
I've not really noticed anyone else playing as deep as he does. Also, if is a scheme deal, most times will drop a DT stop any of the underneath space in the zone. Now I don't see Peko pushing his guy back as part of an active pass rush, so I'm exactly sure what that means. I thought he was doing it at first to keep the pocket from collapsing and giving Roethlesberger a path to run, but maybe there was something else to it. I also very rarely seen Peko getting his hands up to block a pass. It was just an awkward game all around.
[/quote]


the front 7 in general is really bad at getting their hands up. They're giving QB's wide open windows often times.

[cincity]

[quote name='IKOTA' timestamp='1350921613' post='1173689']
Here's what I want to see:
Sanu playing MUCH more
Gruden not allowing Marvin to influence his playcalls, but Gruden himself needs to get his act together a little bit
Allen, Kirpatrick and Hall as the top 3 CB's with Adam Jones next in line. [b] Newman is old man.[/b]
Plays designed to get the ball to Hawkins in space
Dunlap plays more than the 30% of snaps he's gotten here lately (why?)
Peerman getting touches along with Leonard. Both are more dynamic than BJGE. Sad commentary when Brian Leonard is more dynamic than our starting RB
Zimmer - wtf? Soft coverages, no bumping at the line, idiotic schematics when it comes to blitzes, ZERO pressure on opposing QB's the last 3 wks
Rey needs to be benched. He's completely lost confidence. A liability. Burfict and Howard may be the only serviceable LB'ers as of right now for next year.
Dalton - wow....where to start. Nevermind, I won't go there. Let's just say he's not a franchise QB IMO. His limitations are so apparent and hinder this offense from really shining. If I was AJ Green, I'd start to get upset that my talents won't be utilized to their potential because of the guy throwing the ball.
DLine inconsistency has to improve
Probably other things I can't think of right now in my Hulk rage
[/quote]

OMG I hope so!!! I think Adam is playing well, in the nickle he moves to the Right side and Leon is chasing around the slot receiver. I'd like to see Dre where Newman is. Please Please Please!!! Tell Zim to stop trying to constantly talk him up!

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1350945406' post='1173841']
the front 7 in general is really bad at getting their hands up. They're giving QB's wide open windows often times.
[/quote]

Man I sound like I'm on crack in some of my posts anymore. I'm really sorry that sometimes you guys need a Wonder Twins decoder ring to read them. It's something I've been trying to work on, often times I'll re-read my posts like 3 times before posting it, but I still usually have words missing here and there. I'm not sure if it will ever get fixed. Medicine I take makes me do that, and right now I can't just quit taking it. Once again sorry to make things confusing.

[BigDawgBengal]

Coming out of the bye week I would like to see Jones as the number two and Sanu in the slot. I would also like to see them use Hawkins a little more creatively. Line him up in the backfield to create some mismatches. Also I would like to see them use Charles and Gresham in the passing game at the same time.

As for as the defense, both Allen and Dre need to get on the field. I would like to see Mays play more and use him as a hybrid S/LB. In nickel situations, move Burfict over and bring in Mays to replace Rey. Also on obvious passing downs, I would like to see them mix up the pass rush. Move Dunlap inside with Atkins and rush Moch and Johnson on the outside and have Mays blitz.

[|SF2|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1350945199' post='1173839']

I saw Burfict make 3-4 bad plays last night too. The difference is, Burfict offset that with 5-6 really good/great plays. Rey isn't doing the same. However, just because he's not making those really good plays doesn't mean he's bad on every play.
[/quote]

Nobody said he is bad on every play, just the running and passing downs.

[oldschooler]

[size=6][b]Lewis looking at personnel changes; Streaky numbers; Jones could play vs. Denver[/b][/size]

Posted 18 hours ago

Geoff Hobson Editor Bengals.com

Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis said at his Monday news conference that his coaches are looking at personnel changes this bye week and before the Bengals resume play against the Broncos in a 1 p.m. Paul Brown Stadium game Nov. 4.

But one of those spots isn't middle linebacker. Rey Maualuga struggled some in pass coverage during Sunday night's loss to the Steelers and Lewis said he got out of his lane on running back Jonathan Dwyer's 32-yard run with 1:40 left that sealed it. Lewis said Maualuga didn't play as well he had in the last couple of games, but he also said others didn't play as well around him.

Lewis also said that rookie wide receiver Marvin Jones has a chance to play against Denver. It's believed he suffered an MCL knee sprain on a kick return before the Bengals ever got the ball in a game plan he apparently had some extensive involvement. Lewis called Jones "day-to-day."

Lewis confirmed the Monday workout of former Ohio State wide receiver Brian Robiske, a second-round pick of Cleveland in 2009 but he indicated the Bengals aren't looking to sign anyone off the street at the moment and are just checking out some guys with physicals. Lewis said that could include some players that signed injury settlements with other clubs earlier this season. It's believed the Robiske workout had been set up before the injury to Jones.

After coaching his 75th regular-season gamee at PBS, Lewis said Sunday night's atmosphere was the best he'd seen and said his players were extremely disappointed they couldn't win for the sold-out crowd of 63,411.

STREAKY NUMBERS: Some streaks heading into the Bengals bye week:

» Wide receiver A.J. Green has caught a TD pass in six straight games. The Bengals club record is 10 set by wide receiver Carl Pickens from 1994-95. The most in the same season is the 10 TDs wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh caught in the first eight games of the 2007 season.

» Which means quarterback Andy Dalton has thrown touchdown passes in six straight games, although Green caught one of his from wide receiver Mohamed Sanu. Dalton's longest TD streak last year was 10.

» Sunday night's stat sheet from the 24-17 loss to the Steelers had rookie linebacker Vontaze Burfict for 15 tackles. That number is probably going to change after the coaches' film session, but it's his fourth straight game with double-digit tackles.

» Defensive tackle Geno Atkins, with a team-leading seven sacks, has at least a sack in four of the last five games and five in the seven games this season.

The Bengals would like to get his tag-team partner going. Left end Carlos Dunlap has gone three straight games without a sack despite going against two rookie tackles the past two weeks. He came into the season with 14 sacks in 24 games and has one in five games this season.

» The Bengals are looking to snap two historical skeins when the Broncos come to town for their next game in a 1 p.m. game at Paul Brown Stadium on Nov. 4. Denver quarterback Peyton Manning is 7-0 against Cincinnati and his boss, John Elway, was 5-0 vs. the Bengals in the games he started and 7-0 in the games in which he played.

» The Bengals have lost three straight games in which they've been within a touchdown of a tie or a lead for a good portion of the fourth quarter. It was that way for the last 14:15 of the Miami game and the last 14:16 of the Steelers game and the first eight minutes of the fourth quarter in Cleveland. In his first 11 NFL starts, Dalton had four fourth-quarter comebacks last season and the Bengals had five.




http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/-Lewis-looking-at-personnel-changes-Streaky-numbers-Jones-could-play-vs-Denver/00f19e51-92fc-4d93-b40a-9af06e83a101

[oldschooler]

[size=6][b]Bengals looking for O in bye[/b][/size]

Posted 10 hours ago

Geoff Hobson Editor Bengals.com


Bengals offensive coordinator Jay Gruden is the same guy. The same coach that sired the game's first Pro Bowl quarterback-receiver combo in history last season.

Heck, he's the same guy, the same coach that 22 days ago got off the plane from Jacksonville with Cincinnati's first top 10 offense in five years, a top five-rated quarterback in Andy Dalton, four wide receivers averaging at least 13 yards per catch, and more gadgets than Edison.

"What a difference a week makes, a month makes, a season makes in careers and lives in this business," Gruden said on a Monday that felt like a Monday. "You just have to keep doing what you're doing, just got to do a better job of getting players in the right spots and coaching better. We've got to take players who are not quite ready and make them ready. We've got to take the great players and utilize them the best way we can."

Gruden may be the same guy, the same coach, but he's examining the remains of a three-game losing streak in which the offense has melted down on third down (12-for-41) and A.J. Green is the only receiver averaging double-digit yards per catch. Cincinnati's 185 total yards, Dalton's 105 passing yards and Green's eight yards from Sunday night's loss to the Steelers are the lowest of Gruden's 24 games as caretaker of the Green-Dalton era and punctuates the three-game funk.

And so for Gruden, a tape junkie, that means back to the board for the bye. In Green and Dalton the Bengals have a solid foundation. The search for their assets continues.

"We've all had a setback. I've had a setback. We all have to get better together," Gruden said. "(Dalton is) the one that has the spotlight on him. I've got to do a good job of making plays more comfortable for him. Get balls out, whatever he needs to make it better. We will sit down this week and reevaluate what we are doing and how we are doing them and evaluate the people that we have and try to figure out better ways to use them, but to lose three games in a row like we've lost them, games that we felt very good about going in … ."

Gruden's No. 2 receiver has yet to step up and his quarterback is trying to take the next step and yet he remains the same stand-up guy. No less than eight media members, the entire corps that covers the Bengals daily, wedged into his office Monday looking for answers.

And he tried for 22 polite minutes as he called Sunday night's outing "an embarrassment."

"What matters is us moving forward and getting our guys in the right frame of mind. I think we have a very talented group offensively," Gruden said. "We've got some guys who have to step up to another level; we've got to coach 'em better. But we're not going to give up on any of 'em. We've just got to do a better job coaching them. I do."

Dalton has had a sudden swerve the last three weeks. When the Bengals opened at 3-1, he was completing 67.5 percent of his passes, averaging eight yards per throw, and had twice as many touchdowns (eight) than interceptions (four). In the last three game he has seen what Bengals radio analyst Dave Lapham calls "The Kevin Coyle Blueprint."

Named after the Dolphins defensive coordinator and former long-time Bengals secondary coach, it dares Dalton to find other weapons besides Green in a tilted maze of man and zone underneath and over the top.

In the last three games he's completed 60. 6 percent for just 6.2 yards per throw and has thrown one more interception (six) than touchdowns (five).

And so Gruden was asked about "The Book," the second time around the NFL and if the second year can be tougher than the first.

"Maybe. But each game is difficult in the NFL. Tom Brady said it the other day: winning is very hard," Gruden said. "People were getting on him. They had a couple three-and-outs there at the end and the Jets came back and people are booing the Patriots, for God's sake. It's not easy to win against anybody. Each game presents a different challenge.

"The Steelers defense is night-and-day different than Cleveland last week, totally different, so you have a different game plan and a different mentality going in with protections and everything else. And Miami before that, totally different. And Denver next week is a totally different animal. So the challenge for a young quarterback is each week you're going to see something different and how he reacts to the new things we're doing and how to attack certain styles of defenses and how successful he's going to be."

Gruden remains Dalton's biggest supporter. A smart, beautiful rhythmic passer when he gets it going. But Gruden acknowledges Dalton's desire to get the ball out so quickly can cause problems on this level.

Sunday night's killer interception that popped out of Dalton's hands was partly a result of that because he pulled the ball back when he saw the route jumped. Gruden says Dalton is going to learn to wait for other options to unfold.

"Sometimes he is (too quick)," Gruden said. "We are not asking Andy to be Ben (Roethlisberger), but we do need to ask him to take third down very seriously and if something is not there initially to run, make something happen with your legs, sometimes he couldn't," Gruden said of Sunday. "Sometimes the pressure was there and he scrambled out and they were right on him just like that and he had to throw it away.

"Other times I think he could have bought a little bit more time. You don't have to be Michael Vick or Robert Griffin III. But Drew Brees and a lot of these great quarterbacks buy time in the pocket. He's just got to do a better job of that. Comes with time. He's still in his second year. He's programmed in to being such a great rhythm, timing quarterback, but sometimes defenses here they can take away initial reads. He's going to have to wait for somebody else."

Which brings up Gruden's next challenge. Who is that somebody else opposite Green? It very well could be rookie Marvin Jones and Sunday night was supposed to be his coming-out party after a week he was given the bulk of the snaps in practice opposite Green. How about this for shortcircuiting the iPad? Jones sprained his MCL blocking for a kick return before he ever took an offensive snap and while head coach Marvin Lewis says he's got a shot to play in two weeks it doesn't give Gruden any immediate answers.

So with Jones rehabbing Gruden will go back to the board. With two-deep zone defenses taking away Green the past three weeks, the other guys haven’t been able to take advantage. In the last three games, Sunday's No. 2 starter, Brandon Tate, has two catches for 14 yards. Armon Binns, who had started five of the previous six games before being inactive for the Steelers, averaged 8.8 yards per his six catches in the last three. Rookie Mohamed Sanu and second-year man Ryan Whalen alternated outside and in the slot against the Steelers in making their first seven catches of the season combining for barely eight yards per catch.

Even fleet slot receiver Andrew Hawkins, who had a 50-yarder, 57-yarder, and 31-yarder in the 3-1 start, has averaged just 8.3 yards on 12 catches in the last three games.

“It’s been an issue. Whalen had some good plays, Tate only played eight or nine snaps but we only had 50 plays," Gruden said. "(Green) dropped a slant, (Green-Ellis) dropped a checkdown, Jermaine (Gresham) dropped a pass, four drops. We have to get more production from everyone else. Mohamed Sanu was a welcome addition, he had a nice run and three catches. Happy with the way Mo played. Right now we have some guys who can play but haven’t taken a major step into that role.

“Through training camp and last season at the very end once we lost Jerome (Simpson) we thought Binns had the best camp and Tate had a good camp. We thought Whalen played well the past couple weeks and has progressed nicely and deserved some reps. Matter of the guys when they get them the guys can’t drop it. We have to get more production and Andy has to have more faith to get it to them. Tight ends and backs out of the backfield have to be more productive.”

Exhibit A: Whalen didn't hear Dalton check to a skinny post and he ran an out route. But then, Green, all of a 15-game veteran, came into the season with his 65 NFL catches leading all seven receivers. On Sunday, Whalen doubled his NFL output with four catches. Tate's lone catch gave him 30 for his career.

Asked if the inexperience has caught up Gruden says, "a little bit," but "they've made some plays, too."

It has been quite a roller coaster on offense. Not only are the receivers young, but look on the offensive line in the second half against the grizzled Steelers front three. Rookie Trevor Robinson had to play center when Jeff Faine went down with a hamstring problem right away in the second half. He was playing next to rookie right guard Kevin Zeitler and Clint Boling, a second-year guy playing his first season at left guard.

Nose tackle Casey Hampton tossed around the promising but small and still developing Robinson while Boling had some uncharacteristic problems with the bull rush. Boling, who came into the game as the highest rated pass-blocking guard by Web site profootballfocus.com, got pushed back a few times along with Zeitler. Both project to be excellent NFL guards. But on Sunday, Gruden noted Dalton was unable to step up in the pocket often in the second half.

"It's just a little bit of everything. The whole second half we're playing with our third center, we're playing with a left guard who hardly ever played left guard and he's a little banged up, and we're playing a rookie right guard," Gruden said.

"They still battled; they still did some good things. But over the course of the game you look at well, Boling here, he screwed up these three plays, and Trevor, he screwed up these three. That's six out of 50. We had four drops, that's 10 out of 50. Andy threw four bad balls, that's 14 out of 50. You know, we have talented players but if each talented player screws up three times a game, that's 33, 35, whatever the number is, and we only have 50 plays."

But Gruden likes what he has. He thinks these seven receivers deserve to be here and that there's no one on the street that can help right now. Monday's workout of former Browns second-rounder Brian Robiske is simply due diligence.

On this day after, Gruden's point is clear: Dalton needs everyone around him to be a factor if he's going to be a factor.

"We like the guys. They're not playing terribly, it's just they're not being noticed," Gruden said of the receivers. "They need to get themselves noticed and we need to give them some shots.

"They all have their qualities that are good. And they all have a quality or two that you question. Someone will step up. It would surprise me if they don't get the message. Step up somebody."





http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-looking-for-O-in-bye/ff7a1690-7c68-42a0-aac8-0f0452d3df77

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1350991923' post='1173938']
Nobody said he is bad on every play, just the running and passing downs.
[/quote]

[Bengals1181]

I hope Gruden solicits the help of Hue Jackson. Hue isn't a WCO guy, but it wouldn't hurt to have a fresh set of eyes look at your offense over the bye week. Besides, its not like Hue is paying dividends on defense right now.

[|westside bengal|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1350924165' post='1173701']

Right now this team has no running game and no legitimate #2 threat. No QB is going to have a lot of success with that.

[b]Hawkins[/b] is either playing too much or not enough, and when he does play they are sending him on a lot of 10-20yd routes [b]rather than the 5-10yd routes he should be running. [/b] Hawkins needs to be a safety valve on every play.

[/quote]


I am wondering how a short QB that gets balls knocked down at the line of scrimmage throws it 5-10 yds down field to a 5'7" guy he probably cant even see?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='westside bengal' timestamp='1350998449' post='1173957']
I am wondering how a short QB that gets balls knocked down at the line of scrimmage throws it 5-10 yds down field to a 5'7" guy he probably cant even see?
[/quote]

Dalton isn't exactly short (6'2"). Plus its not like the line is standing straight up. Besides, if Hawkins is running his route right Dalton knows where he's going to be. It's just a matter of how open he is.

[|westside bengal|]

I am not trying to be argumentative. Your right Andy isnt short but for an NFL QB he isnt tall either. And you do know that Defensive Linemen often have their hand in the air making them even "taller".

My point is this...you are saying if the conditions are perfect then Hawkins could be successful as the safety valve. But isnt that the exact opposite of a safety valve should be? Isnt he supposed to be the guy open when things arent going right?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='westside bengal' timestamp='1351000265' post='1173965']
I am not trying to be argumentative. Your right Andy isnt short but for an NFL QB he isnt tall either. And you do know that Defensive Linemen often have their hand in the air making them even "taller".

[b]My point is this...you are saying if the conditions are perfect then Hawkins could be successful as the safety valve. But isnt that the exact opposite of a safety valve should be? Isnt he supposed to be the guy open when things arent going right?[/b]
[/quote]


I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say. Ideally, yes he'd be open when things aren't going right. Ideally, he'd be open when things ARE going right.

To try and make my point more succinctly, Hawkins is more quick than fast IMO. That means he gets open quick close the LOS but the farther out he goes, defenders can catch up to him. Further, he's sure-handed and has the ability to bust long gains just by making one person miss in space.

If they aren't going to use the RB's and FB's on checkdowns like normal teams (and IMO they shouldn't use the TE's that way), then I think Hawkins would be the best choice to be a safety valve/checkdown option on every play.

[MaddChatter]

Accountability ? There is NO accountability above the head coaching level. When the ''emperor'' (owner/gm Mike Brown) wears no clothes, he is not subject to any accountability. Any traditional gm would have been fired 4 or 5 times considering the results of this franchise over the last 22 years.

[bambam]

[quote name='MaddChatter' timestamp='1351001667' post='1173971']
Accountability ? There is NO accountability above the head coaching level. When the ''emperor'' (owner/gm Mike Brown) wears no clothes, he is not subject to any accountability. Any traditional gm would have been fired 4 or 5 times considering the results of this franchise over the last 22 years.
[/quote]

DING DING DING, we have a winner.

[|westside bengal|]

If he is on the sides and behind or relative close to the line of scrimmage then it would probably work. But I feel that that a 5'7" receiver only a few yards behind moving linemen would not be easily and consistently picked up by his QB and that is not an ideal safety valve situation.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='westside bengal' timestamp='1351002862' post='1173976']
If he is on the sides and behind or relative close to the line of scrimmage then it would probably work. But I feel that that a 5'7" receiver only a few yards behind moving linemen would not be easily and consistently picked up by his QB and that is not an ideal safety valve situation.
[/quote]

5-7 yards deep it wouldn't really be a big deal for Dalton to find him. He knows where he's gonna be already anyway. Plus, when Dalton scrambles the lines wouldn't be much of an issue.

[|westside bengal|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1351003074' post='1173978']
5-7 yards deep it wouldn't really be a big deal for Dalton to find him. He knows where he's gonna be already anyway. Plus, when Dalton scrambles the lines wouldn't be much of an issue.
[/quote]

Oh, so now Andy has to scramble also?.....

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='westside bengal' timestamp='1351010673' post='1173996']
Oh, so now Andy has to scramble also?.....
[/quote]

WHEN he scrambles. Not saying he has to scramble every time.


I dunno, I just don't see Hawkins height as an issue on short throws. It's not like it effects a 5'11" Brees throwing checkdowns to a 5'9" Sproles.

[SouthPaw]

This team doesnt make adjustments and that comes from the top. It's almost like they go into every game with a gameplan(as they should) for how to be the most effective against their opponent, but when it doesnt work, they stubbornly never deviate. There is flat out no good reason why adjustments cant be made and players like hawkins and peerman(out of the backfield) shouldnt be more involved in games like Monday night. Its just plain awful. They can talk all they want, but nothing ever changes. For intstance, i dont care how well a.j. green was covered monday night, there is no reason that a human being can give me for not try to stretch the field to him 5-6 a game.....atleast!!!!! More than likely he is going to beat that person(s), make a play while being blanketed, or draw a pass interference penalty. They simply let the Steelers dictate to them exactly what THEY were going to do.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='SouthPaw' timestamp='1351011652' post='1173999']
This team doesnt make adjustments and that comes from the top. It's almost like they go into every game with a gameplan(as they should) for how to be the most effective against their opponent, but when it doesnt work, they stubbornly never deviate. There is flat out no good reason why adjustments cant be made and players like hawkins and peerman(out of the backfield) shouldnt be more involved in games like Monday night. Its just plain awful. They can talk all they want, but nothing ever changes. For intstance, i dont care how well a.j. green was covered monday night, there is no reason that a human being can give me for not try to stretch the field to him 5-6 a game.....atleast!!!!! More than likely he is going to beat that person(s), make a play while being blanketed, or draw a pass interference penalty. They simply let the Steelers dictate to them exactly what THEY were going to do.
[/quote]

I don't think its that they don't MAKE adjustments, its that they aren't making good ones (not that that's any better). Every team makes adjustments.

You'd think the defense would be having strong second halves. My understanding was that the role of Hue Jackson was to tell Zimmer how he'd attack his defense. You'd think Hue would be watching the first half taking notes to tell Zimmer what adjustments the opposing team is likely to make at halftime. Either that's not happening or Jackson's giving bad advice.


I agree on Hawkins, though from some of the things I've heard it sounds like maybe his back issues played a bigger part in his diminished offensive snaps than some thought it would.

Really hope the offense works on the screen game in the bye week.

[MaddChatter]

This thread started out discussing the issue of ACCOUNTABILITY or lack there of . As a long time DIE HARD Bengal fan since they played at Nippert Stadium, I have to say that talk of schemes, moves and Marvin Lewis is like worrying about the plumbing and decor on the Titanic.

[Lewdog]

I know what's wrong with this team:

[quote][size=6][b]Bengals looking for O in bye[/b][/size][/quote]

Hellllllooooo, hellllloooo, this is no "O" in bye.

Seriously what kind of title is that?

[Bengals1181]

Getting back to the changes part of the thread, could these 6 players spur a turnaround in the last 9 games, or is the season already beyond repair?


Marvin Jones
Orson Charles
Dre Kirkpatrick
Pat Sims
Jon Fanene
Jason Allen


What about Kyle Cook for potentially 5-6 games?