Was listening to Moving the Chains with Pat Kirwan on the way home today

[CTBengalsFan]

He was talking about RG3 and then mentioned that he'd been watching tape of the 10 rookie/sophomore QBs and graded them on a number of criteria and said that RG3 was #1 on that list. The co-host asked if Luck was #2. He quickly said, "No, Andy Dalton."

The conversation then went onto Luck, but I thought it was interesting, and this is from a guy who bases his opinions on watching film.

[Rick]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1351288722' post='1174834']
He was talking about RG3 and then mentioned that he'd been watching tape of the 10 rookie/sophomore QBs and graded them on a number of criteria and said that RG3 was #1 on that list. The co-host asked if Luck was #2. He quickly said, "No, Andy Dalton."

The conversation then went onto Luck, but I thought it was interesting, and this is from a guy who bases his opinions on watching film.
[/quote]
I guess he did not watch the film of last week's game.

[NASTYNATI]

[quote name='Rick' timestamp='1351288867' post='1174835']

I guess he did not watch the film of last week's game.
[/quote]

Certainly he took into account the awful O-line, run game, and Coaching over the last 3 weeks.

I don't get the Andy bashing here. He and AJ are two of the three (Burfict) bright spots on this team. It is early in his second year and he is being asked to carry this team on his back. Thus far he is exceeding the expectations of many including mine. Remember he is a 2nd round pick from a small school with a new offensive coordinator, an incompetent owner and head coach. He's a young QB not a miracle worker.

IMO The lack of offense/wins falls squarely on the shoulders of Marvin and Gruden. This team falls apart when they play with a lead because Marvin is afraid to play to win and would rather play "AFCN Football" They are not creative enough when it comes to getting other players involved on offense. Gruden took risks in games 2-4 and the Bengals won all 3 games. The last 3 weeks they have gotten away from that and as a result they have taken three in the L column.

I would argue that of the QB's in the last two draft classes Andy has played the best. He is the only one that has led his team to the playoffs.

[Lewdog]

Due to the fact as a rookie, Dalton took the Bengals (Yes, the Bengals) to the playoffs says a lot in itself. Fast forward to his year, and Dalton was in the top 5 in a lot of QB stats. Kirwan is a decent judge of talent. Unfortunately for us Bengals fans, if Dalton is throwing 40+ times a game, the Bengals are more than likely losing. That's just not the type of stats the offense is set up for. Dalton should only be throwing the ball 25-30 times a game, with an equal amount of run plays.

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1351288722' post='1174834']
He was talking about RG3 and then mentioned that he'd been watching tape of the 10 rookie/sophomore QBs and graded them on a number of criteria and said that RG3 was #1 on that list. The co-host asked if Luck was #2. He quickly said, "No, Andy Dalton."

The conversation then went onto Luck, but I thought it was interesting, and this is from a guy who bases his opinions on watching film.
[/quote]

I value Kirwan's opinion, and if people wonder why... get his book he wrote on a different way to watch football. It will make you see so much more than you ever have before. The guy knows what he's talking about.

[texbengal]

[quote name='USN Bengal' timestamp='1351296250' post='1174863']


I value Kirwan's opinion, and if people wonder why... get his book he wrote on a different way to watch football. It will make you see so much more than you ever have before. The guy knows what he's talking about.
[/quote]

X2 on Kirwan and his book.

Dalton is far down the list of problems here, IMO. Sure, he's had some bad throws - who hasn't? I've seen a lot of improvement this year in his command of the offense, taking charge, and overall accuracy. He's got a fiery temperament that I like - he had it at TCU, and its more evident this year. He may never be a franchise QB - we will see on that, but he's good and getting better.

They are playing with 3 new OL, 4 of the top 5 WRs are different from last year, and there is a new featured RB. And he's in his second year, and so is the star player, AJ. Not an excuse, but that's a lot to deal with... And it's only been 7 games.

I'm not sure how the year will play out; I'm hopeful, but i still feel this is a very young team with a lot of upside.

[Lewdog]

I have been trying to think of someone in the past that has been successful despite not being an elite quarterback. The closest 2 guys that I can think of that was able to manage his teams to win, without making those crucial mistakes that cost games. The first guy I thought of, most Bengal fans will hate, because he retired instead of coming to Cincinnati to play, was Elvis Grbac. The other guy is real smart, and he played great in college, yet never became a 'star' was Trent Dilfer. A lot of people will probably disagree with those guys, but they were the closest I could come up with. All three have the ability to go insane in a game and throw for 300+ yards and multiple touchdowns, but could also lead the offense and hand off the ball 30-40 times in a game. They have the ego to not be the center of the offense. They are there to win as a team.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

Nastynati is right. Over the last 3 games we've been coached not to lose rather than to win. Also, we have to stop making excuses for that fact we have new or younger players this year; every team does. I've been a supporter of Marvin, but this is really getting old. This team has not played at all like the team that started 3-1. Where is the aggressive offense? The unpredictable offense? Where's the team that went for it 4th down? ran fake field goals? Where's the team that all the pundits said had all kinds of young talent at the skill positions? It's like we keep watching the same movie over and over again.

[Le Tigre]

I have been astonished more at the fan's reactions to the past 3 weeks than I have been with the team play.

This is still a very young, very talented, team. This is still a very good coaching staff (HC notwithstanding at times). Not only the remainder of this season (which I still believe will end up positive), but the foreseeable future, we have a lot to like with this team--including our high-upside QB.

But it seems like every time this franchise has a tough stretch, the fans (if you want to call some that) curl up in the fetal position and cry about MB or the 90's. Jeez, some give up faster than the Italian army.

(Note: I am not referring to folks here. The pulse I am reading comes from the press, blogs, and other message boards)

[mongo]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' timestamp='1351288722' post='1174834']
He was talking about RG3 and then mentioned that he'd been watching tape of the 10 rookie/sophomore QBs and graded them on a number of criteria and said that RG3 was #1 on that list. The co-host asked if Luck was #2. He quickly said, "No, Andy Dalton."

The conversation then went onto Luck, but I thought it was interesting, and this is from a guy who bases his opinions on watching film.
[/quote]

Easily the best football show on the radio. The guy is both smart, and articulate. Still need to finish his book, but a great learning experience so far.

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1351346877' post='1174946']
I have been astonished more at the fan's reactions to the past 3 weeks than I have been with the team play.

This is still a very young, very talented, team. This is still a very good coaching staff (HC notwithstanding at times). Not only the remainder of this season (which I still believe will end up positive), but the foreseeable future, we have a lot to like with this team--including our high-upside QB.

But it seems like every time this franchise has a tough stretch, the fans (if you want to call some that) curl up in the fetal position and cry about MB or the 90's. Jeez, some give up faster than the Italian army.

(Note: I am not referring to folks here. The pulse I am reading comes from the press, blogs, and other message boards)
[/quote]

Do you know what the number one problem is with this team? I don't know if it truly is the curse of Bo Jackson or whatever people might say, but thinking back through the years since Marvin has been head coach, the teams have never had a solid all around team. 2005 was about as close as it could get. The offense was lethal and balanced. The special teams was solid as well especially in the return game. The defense held that team back because it depended too much on turn overs and the "bend but don't break" strategy. The defense was extremely exposed by teams with a good ground attack. Other than that team, every year it has been one weakness in the three facets of the game that has been their downfall. Special teams whether it was a bad snap or a missed FG, cost the Bengals the playoffs twice. All the other years, the Bengals would have a good staunch defense, that would hold most of the season but eventual wear down because the offense kept them out on the field so much. In other instances, the Bengals would have a solid offense that could ram it down a defense's throat, only to be undermined by a defense that would give big plays and take the wind out of the sail of the whole team.

So why can't the Bengals put together a solid three phase team? I don't know for sure, but there has only been ONE consistent throughout all these teams, Marvin Lewis. If this was some kind of laboratory experiment, where someone was trying to find the Bengals cure, it would have been obvious long ago. A change needs to happen.

[kdubdub]

I have been Mia the last few months but read the forum every now and then...I'm kinda blown away about the Dalton bashing. What does everyone expect? Like Kirwan said...he is easily top 3 or 4 of this new era of QBs.

[Bengal27]

[quote name='Le Tigre' timestamp='1351346877' post='1174946']
I have been astonished more at the fan's reactions to the past 3 weeks than I have been with the team play.

This is still a very young, very talented, team. This is still a very good coaching staff (HC notwithstanding at times). Not only the remainder of this season (which I still believe will end up positive), but the foreseeable future, we have a lot to like with this team--including our high-upside QB.

But it seems like every time this franchise has a tough stretch, the fans (if you want to call some that) curl up in the fetal position and cry about MB or the 90's. Jeez, some give up faster than the Italian army.

(Note: I am not referring to folks here. The pulse I am reading comes from the press, blogs, and other message boards)
[/quote]

And here, clearly.

[Bengal27]

[quote name='kdubdub' timestamp='1351353223' post='1174973']
I have been Mia the last few months but read the forum every now and then...I'm kinda blown away about the Dalton bashing. What does everyone expect? Like Kirwan said...he is easily top 3 or 4 of this new era of QBs.
[/quote]

The guy has a quick release, is accurate, and a great leader. He has one issue right now and that's the quick lock into one receiver which is normal for a young quarterback. He is going to be a very good qb when all is said and done.

[Jason]

[quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1351347973' post='1174951']
Do you know what the number one problem is with this team? I don't know if it truly is [b]the curse of Bo Jackson[/b] or whatever people might say, but thinking back through the years since Marvin has been head coach, the teams have never had a solid all around team. 2005 was about as close as it could get. The offense was lethal and balanced. The special teams was solid as well especially in the return game. The defense held that team back because it depended too much on turn overs and the "bend but don't break" strategy. The defense was extremely exposed by teams with a good ground attack. Other than that team, every year it has been one weakness in the three facets of the game that has been their downfall. Special teams whether it was a bad snap or a missed FG, cost the Bengals the playoffs twice. All the other years, the Bengals would have a good staunch defense, that would hold most of the season but eventual wear down because the offense kept them out on the field so much. In other instances, the Bengals would have a solid offense that could ram it down a defense's throat, only to be undermined by a defense that would give big plays and take the wind out of the sail of the whole team.

So why can't the Bengals put together a solid three phase team? I don't know for sure, but there has only been ONE consistent throughout all these teams, Marvin Lewis. If this was some kind of laboratory experiment, where someone was trying to find the Bengals cure, it would have been obvious long ago. A change needs to happen.
[/quote]

Our curse goes back long before that. Remember Greg Cook?

[Lewdog]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1351354066' post='1174979']
Our curse goes back long before that. Remember Greg Cook?

[/quote]

With the fact that the Bengals haven't won a playoff game since they beat the Raiders and ended Bo's career, I think the curse of Bo is the best description.

[mongo]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1351354066' post='1174979']


Our curse goes back long before that. Remember Greg Cook?
[/quote]

Tough to call it a curse if we' at least got to a couple Super Bowls since Greg. Call it a Stanley Wilson curse, if you want to believe in a curse.

[scharm]

File this under for what it is worth:

Dan Marino ranked first and second year Qbs.

1 RG3
2 luck
3 Cam
4 Dalton


Cowher don't like Dalton at 4

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1351443432' post='1175159']
File this under for what it is worth:

Dan Marino ranked first and second year Qbs.

1 RG3
2 luck
3 Cam
4 Dalton


Cowher don't like Dalton at 4
[/quote]

No way Luck should be at 2. He has not lived up to the hype so far. Marino only put him up there because of all the hype.

[The Left Hand of Frerotte]

I think Dalton has a chance to be what Matt Hasselbeck was with Seattle. He can get the job done, so long he has a good running game and he has a good defense. Of course the law firm has been horrible and our pass defense is terrible too.

[bubba]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1351445248' post='1175167']


No way Luck should be at 2. He has not lived up to the hype so far. Marino only put him up there because of all the hype.
[/quote]
IMO luck is better than rg3. They just got their 4th win too.

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='bubba' timestamp='1351456148' post='1175200']

IMO luck is better than rg3. They just got their 4th win too.
[/quote]

Really?? RG3 has been much better this year. Coming into today Luck was only completing 53 percent of passes and had turned the ball over 11 times. RG3 was completing 70 percent of his passes and only had 5 turnovers. RG3 was leading the league in percentage and yards per attempt. He was third in QB rating. Luck might be better in the end but RG3 has out played him.

[bubba]

[quote name='BigDawgBengal' timestamp='1351456866' post='1175205']


Really?? RG3 has been much better this year. Coming into today Luck was only completing 53 percent of passes and had turned the ball over 11 times. RG3 was completing 70 percent of his passes and only had 5 turnovers. RG3 was leading the league in percentage and yards per attempt. He was third in QB rating. Luck might be better in the end but RG3 has out played him.
[/quote]
Yeah maybe. I'm not looking at nfl.com stats. Just flipping around on NFLTicket. When I watch the 2. Luck looks better. Maybe bad timing on me flipping channels.
Bottom line Luck has more wins with prob less overall talent.

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='bubba' timestamp='1351459795' post='1175218']

Yeah maybe. I'm not looking at nfl.com stats. Just flipping around on NFLTicket. When I watch the 2. Luck looks better. Maybe bad timing on me flipping channels.
Bottom line Luck has more wins with prob less overall talent.
[/quote]

Yea I think it's just bad timing. Watching RG3 play this year he has been very impressive. Probably could of beat Pitt today but his WRs had 10 drops. He is the total package right now.