Inigo Montoya Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 That number is going to keep on going up. It's just the rules of engagement. Kap's deal is going to affect the franchise tag amount, just like it does the long term deal amount. It will go up eventually, but not by a significant amount next year. It's based off the top 5 salaries and we don't know yet what CK will earn in salary in 2014. Since the Niners are paying him a reported $12 million signing bonus, I doubt his salary will be in the top 5 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Annual average means nothing to Mike Brown...from a former agent: Joe Casale @sportsJC16 · 4h Mike Brown. 1st time I negotiated w/MB, brought up comps. Says to me, "Just because someone else made a dumb deal doesn't mean I have to". Joe Casale @sportsJC16 · 4h I imagine that's what he will tell Andy Dalton's agent when/if he brings up Kaepernick's contact as a bargaining point. Joe Casale @sportsJC16 4h @gcf123 He's brutal. She's great. She will eventually run everything when he's gone. She pretty much does now. MB doesn't care what the total deal is, just what the reality of the deal is, which I bet will be something more like 3 years 40-50M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Sets Andy at 15 per imo, the guarantees and bonuses ect are what will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dex Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 This deal is bad for the Bengals, IMO. Structure appears favorable (only $12 million signing bonus per Schefter), but the annual average is crazy and only continues the inflation of QB salaries. Any notion of signing Dalton at a more reasonable rate is probably out the window. I am starting to view the franchise tag as a more viable option for Dalton. Better than overpaying and making a deal that hamstrings the team for multiple years. What was the last QB that actually played under a franchise tag? I think it's been many, many years. I know some QBs have gotten tagged - like Drew Brees - but of course he simply stayed out of camp until an extension deal was reached. You would have to expect that Dalton and Alex Smith and the others would also simply hold out until a deal was done. Just not sure that the franchise tag is a viable option with a QB these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Let him hold out...ya got a couple of games to play with.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Kap's salary is only 645k next year, doesn't impact the franchise tag at all. Also adds another data point that is actually a much shorter term possibly team friendly deal in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBandJoeyV Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Sets Andy at 15 per imo, the guarantees and bonuses ect are what will be interesting. Still think it will be around 6 years 90M with bonuses that make it look like it could be up to 6 years 105 or something. The original numbers we here will be the 105 and everyone will freak out before finding out it's much closer to the 90 which is a more manageable number. Just a guess though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 It's not really a question of total dollars. The Bengals have abundant cap space both in 2014 and later and can easily afford to pay Dalton 20 mil+. It's a matter of whether he's earned it or not. If he flames out in the playoffs again, the team might start looking at McCarron or one of the 2015 QBs. There's also the locker room harmony aspect. If Andy is perceived as not raising his game in big games and benefiting from his team mates, then overpaying him will be unpopular when the team is holding the line on other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Real details are out...reality doesn't match the agents trumped up numbers at all. It is basically a bunch of one year deals. I'd say this deal ends up being a great thing for the Bengals. If they cut him after year 1 it's a 1 year 13M deal, after year 2 (assuming they don't make the SB) it's a 2 year 26M deal and so on. He doesn't even have the opportunity to make over 20M until 2019. The full Kaepernick contract details Posted by Mike Florio on June 5, 2014, 12:46 AM EDT AP In response to our item suggesting that the Colin Kaepernick deal, trumpeted as being worth “up to” $126 million with $61 million guaranteed contains plenty of fluff, a league source with knowledge of the deal sent the details to PFT, and multiple other sources have chimed in on the contents of the contract. As expected, there’s plenty of fluff. Technically, the deal has $61 million guaranteed, even though $6 million of the guaranteed salary could evaporate (more on that later). Either way, only $13.073 million is guaranteed at signing. It comes in the form of a $12.328 million signing bonus, a base salary of $645,000, and a workout bonus of $100,000. For 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and part of 2018, the base salaries are guaranteed only for injury. On April 1 of each year, the guarantees convert from injury only to fully guaranteed. That gives the 49ers the ability to decide, in any given year, to move on from Kaepernick. And with the deadline for the conversion of the guarantee coming on April 1, the 49ers can squat on his rights until several weeks after the start of free agency, making it harder for him to get paid elsewhere. The base salary for 2015 is $12.4 million, guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2015. For 2016, the base salary is $13.9 million, guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2016. For 2017, the base salary is $16.5 million, guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2017. For 2018, the base salary is $17 million, $5.2 million of which is guaranteed for injury only until April 1, 2018. The non-guaranteed base salary for 2019 is $18.8 million, and the non-guaranteed base salary for 2020 is $21 million. In each year from 2015 through 2020, however, there’s a catch. A big one. The total payout potentially de-escalates by $2 million per year, with up to $12 million potentially going away. Kaepernick can halt the de-escalation by taking, in any year of the deal, 80 percent of the snaps and if: (1) the 49ers appear in the Super Bowl; or (2) Kaepernick is named a first-team or second-team All-Pro. If he satisfies the requirement in 2014, the full $12 million remains. If he fails in 2014 but succeeds in 2015, $10 million stays. If he does it for the first time in 2016, $8 million remains. If he does it for the first time in 2017, $6 million stays — and so on until 2019, when if he satisfies the requirement that year for the first time $2 million stays in the deal for 2010. It’s a convoluted way to pump up the base value of the deal artificially, allowing Kaepernick and his agents to claim that the deal is better than it will be, unless he satisfies the requirements to stop the de-escalator this year. The contract also includes, starting in 2015, a whopping $2 million per year in per-game roster bonuses, an amount that one source characterized as “massive” in comparison to similar deals. It means that, for every game Kaepernick misses due to injury after the 2014 season, he loses $125,000. Starting in 2015, $400,000 per year is tied to workout bonuses, which adds up to $2.4 million of the base value. The contract also requires Kaepernick to purchase, with after-tax dollars, a disability policy that pays the 49ers $20 million if he suffers a career-ending injury. As one source put it, Kaepernick can feel good about the deal because he has a lot more guaranteed money today than he had yesterday. But the same source also added that the 49ers are nevertheless “thrilled” with the contract, which allows them to control Kaepernick’s rights for seven years and to move on after any of the next six seasons, if they ultimately decide that Kaepernick is more like the guy who struggled at times during the 2013 regular season and less like the guy who found the gas pedal in the playoffs. If they keep him, the average payout will be low in comparison to other franchise quarterbacks, and the difference will become glaring as other franchise quarterbacks get new deals under a salary cap that is expected to continue to spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zins30 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Wow, this is very good indeed as this is exactly what we hope to do with Dalton, and probably at a lower per year number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongo Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I'd have to think almost everyone would jump at that deal for Dalton. What a hugely 49ers-friendly deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I'd have to think almost everyone would jump at that deal for Dalton. What a hugely 49ers-friendly deal! I think it is a great deal for both CK and the 49ers. If CK is as good as HE thinks he is, then he can make a shit ton of money by playing well and remaining their starting QB. Figure his legs won't give out in the next 5 years so if he can improve his passing (and they have upgraded their receiving corps) and the defense continues to be dominant, I see little reason CK doesn't get paid unless he becomes a lazy turd or gets hurt. 49ers realize they have a guy who RUNS alot and runs very well. Its a great thing to have until they guy gets hurt (See RGIII). They know a healthy CK can be a great asset but also know if he gets damaged it could make him nothing more than an average pocket passer the next 5 years, something they already sent to Kansas City. CK stays healthy, continues to improve his passing and still takes those wide open opportunities to run for huge chunks of ground and they will be happy to pay him. He gets hurt or doesn't improve his passing game then they can move on. I also think this type of deal is EXACTLY the type of deal we should sign Andy to. Give HIM the chance to make a shit ton of money if he continues to improve and does great things. Give the team the chance to move on a few years down the road if it doesn't happen. Reality is if Andy continues to progress and the team starts going on deep playoff runs then he would be worth paying huge dollars down the road for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Still think it will be around 6 years 90M with bonuses that make it look like it could be up to 6 years 105 or something. The original numbers we here will be the 105 and everyone will freak out before finding out it's much closer to the 90 which is a more manageable number. Just a guess though. What we do know is that Mike doesn't think he's worth the Cutler deal, this deal may push the market up for Andy a bit, but we know Mike set's his own values and sticks to them hardline "Just because someone else makes a bad deal doesn't mean I have to" Unless Andy plays out of his mind this year, I think a tag and a draft of a replacement to groom (unless by some miricle AJ shows something) is a growing possibility. Either way I don't see a deal getting done this year. Edit: Of course I say that and then see the details of Kap's deal. Has Mike ever been known to do deals like that though? He typically wants to pay his guys, at the value he sets of course, but he pays them. Whole thing is gonna be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 It's a very creative deal, something we are probably going to have to do to bridge whatever gap there is between the team and Andy. The Bengals haven't done much in the way of creativity that I've ever seen. I still think this deal will be fascinating if it ever happens, possible because of how boring and straightforward it is, or because it is the most creative deal the Bengals have ever done. I'd sign him up for exactly that Kap deal in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I'm just not sure Mike would ever do a deal like that, it's a completely different buisness model for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Id do that deal fro Dalton. Shorten the years and money maybe but any deal you can get out of in a year makes a ton of sense for Dalton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Count me as another who would take this deal for Dalton. If he improves as people hope he gets paid but if he doesn't we can get out of the deal. Way better than that Cutler deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyrid Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Kap's salary is only 645k next year, doesn't impact the franchise tag at all. Also adds another data point that is actually a much shorter term possibly team friendly deal in reality. Dalton's salary is also already set for 2014 at a similar amount. They were drafted 2 picks apart. This was always going to be roughly the setup of a deal if Dalton signed now. He would get a signing and/or roster bonus for 2014, but his 2014 salary wouldn't change. Then he will get however many dollars per year in salary from 2015 on. Unlike San Fran, the Bengals will probably structure the 2014 bonus at least half as a roster bonus. That way it counts more towards the 2014 cap and reduces his future cap hits by a couple million per year. Otherwise, the setup is going to be pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalRep85-9 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 That's the deal structure for Dalton 100%. Make him earn the money and give the team a way out if he falls on his face without crippling the franchise. He either takes it structured that way or he doesn't sign this year. There would be no give from me on that if I were Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Dalton's salary is also already set for 2014 at a similar amount. They were drafted 2 picks apart. This was always going to be roughly the setup of a deal if Dalton signed now. He would get a signing and/or roster bonus for 2014, but his 2014 salary wouldn't change. Then he will get however many dollars per year in salary from 2015 on. Unlike San Fran, the Bengals will probably structure the 2014 bonus at least half as a roster bonus. That way it counts more towards the 2014 cap and reduces his future cap hits by a couple million per year. Otherwise, the setup is going to be pretty much the same. I agree this would be the best route for the team as long as we can get Andy's agent to buy it. I also must point out one GLARING error in your post, Kaepernick was drafted right after Andy, not two picks apart. :sport27: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 Whether fans like it or not, the Bengals will pay as much(but not a dollar more) to Dalton's signature on a contract extension. They have already all but declared Dalton a priority signing on a par with Geno Atkins. The only way an extension doesn't happen is if we get a new head coach or a new owner before, say, this September or so.You know the front office considers all quarterback controversy, like the 100-plus threads on this board, a major distraction for a team that considers itself a Super Bowl contender. Once Dalton signs the extension, everyone knows he will be the Bengals QB for at least the rest of this decade, so about 80 percent of the controversy goes away that same day. Not correct. The overall issue is postseason advancment by the franchise. Dalton being the QB of the Bengals is only an issue if the playoff problems continue whether he signed a long term contract or not. All you got to do is look to the Reds and see how bad your logic is. Votto is signed and the heat is on him because of performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 The more I think about this deal the more I love it for the Bengals. Even if he maxes out every dollar it's $18M a year over 7 years. And he only gets that much if he makes the Super Bowl or all pro team in 2014, otherwise the dollars start decreasing. Dalton's agents probably went to bed with a huge smile...now they've woken up with a much more difficult task in front of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 The more I think about this deal the more I love it for the Bengals. Even if he maxes out every dollar it's $18M a year over 7 years. And he only gets that much if he makes the Super Bowl or all pro team in 2014, otherwise the dollars start decreasing. Dalton's agents probably went to bed with a huge smile...now they've woken up with a much more difficult task in front of them. Hey, if Andy gets us to the Superbowl then he deserves the huge payday. All Pro, pay the man. This is all about what Andy thinks he is capable of. Kaepernick obviously thinks he shits rose petals and had no problem with this deal. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 I like the pay as they play type structure. As far as Bengals not being creative. I've sat through so many rookie holdouts as they tried to throw clause after clause into the deals to make them club friendly. Appearance in Superbowls and All-Pro locking in dollars seems right up their alley, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted June 5, 2014 Report Share Posted June 5, 2014 The more I think about this deal the more I love it for the Bengals. Even if he maxes out every dollar it's $18M a year over 7 years. And he only gets that much if he makes the Super Bowl or all pro team in 2014, otherwise the dollars start decreasing. Dalton's agents probably went to bed with a huge smile...now they've woken up with a much more difficult task in front of them. I love the deal too. The big pitfall with this type of deal for the team is the player advancing to a level in which they get enough juice to hold out or want to be traded after completing year 2 of the deal. But the player has to perform in order to do that. I can definately see Chad Johnson Rosenhouse or whatever type stuff happening when the player has performance to demand more of his written compensation to be gauranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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