Andy Dalton contract: Cincinnati Bengals should have waited

[sparky151]

Of course we could just bring back Scott Mitchell. Apparently he's ballooned to 366 pounds and will be on the biggest loser tv show.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/06/scott-mitchell-damien-woody-join-the-biggest-loser/

[|SF2|]

No shit. This dude just keeps trying to invalidate all the names he's giving him for bullshit reasons when the majority of them haven't shit the bed the way Andy has in the postseason. Like....we keep forgetting to bring that part up.

HE. SHITS. THE. BED.

In the playoffs that is. He's decent in the regular season. If you want to discredit everyone named by pointing at Andy's supreme irreplaceable skills, make sure you remember that they're being compared to someone who shits the bed in the playoffs in remarkable fashion.

Most (not all) of those names haven't led any team to the playoffs so its tough to shit the bed in them.

 

The only names he has really given me that are legit are:

 

Plummer (never made playoffs in 6 years at Arizona before he went to Denver, thus he never shit the bed)

 

Manning.  Ok I admit we should have signed him, thats one. (By the way he started his playoff career 0-3, the third loss a 41-0 BED SHITTING. 137 yards passing, 0 TDs, 2ints,  DAMN, should have cut his sorry ass)  It took Manning 6 years to win his first playoff game.  Bed shitter.

 

 

Brees: Ok I admit we should have signed him, thats two. (BTW, it took him 6 seasons to win his first playoff game, never did it in SD and he really sucked in his 3rd year there being replaced by Doug Flutie at one point.  Dude, you got benched for a 41 year old)

 

Alex Smith: 1-1 in playoffs on a GREAT defensive team.  He was SF's Andy but is pretty good.  Go ahead and sign him.

 

Kurt Warner:  I already said sign him.

 

Who am I leaving out?  McNabb?  Vick?  Schaub?

 

Like I said, there are not that many out there and you conveniently forget how long it took for any of those available to actually play in a playoff game let alone WIN ONE.

[T-Dub]

I distinctly remember all the "Can't win the big game" talk around Manning.  NE owned him in Foxborough.

[|schotzee|]

FIFY! :D

Wrong. Love your loyalty Ken, but even the honmiest of homers should see where mistakes were made and point them out.

[|schotzee|]

I distinctly remember all the "Can't win the big game" talk around Manning.  NE owned him in Foxborough.

Manning proved everyone wrong indeed. Hope Andy does as well!!

[JC]

 

However, If I recall correctly, he said that one of the reasons he went to Tampa was because the Bengals would not guarantee him the starting LT position.

 

I just can't see them sticking him at LG after they made room for him on the line by shifting Whit.  At that dollar value he was going to be playing somewhere.

[|SF2|]

Of course we could just bring back Scott Mitchell. Apparently he's ballooned to 366 pounds and will be on the biggest loser tv show.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/06/scott-mitchell-damien-woody-join-the-biggest-loser/

Wasn't that his weight when he played with us?

[|kennethmw|]

Wrong. Love your loyalty Ken, but even the honmiest of homers should see where mistakes were made and point them out.

 

It's not about loyalty, it's about your bias, since you and Scharm share a similar position on Andy, you agree with any point he makes, regardless of the lack of true probability.  SF2, a poster I've debated from the opposing side many a time, constantly and consistently has shown salient points as his basis of his theory, while Scharm has used exceptions and improbabilities to try to refute those points.  SF2 is no Andy Lover, but he understands that the odds of picking someone up in FA or without having one of the top picks in the draft, are rare occasions, not something that two or three teams just do every year and go straight to the playoffs.  

[bengalsfansince68]

It is not a player problem in Cincinnati and it damn sure ain't a one player problem.  It is a coaching philosophy problem.There are maybe 4 QBs in this league that can carry a football game with 50 pass attempts.  All other QBs need a rush game and balance on offense.  Andy is not a pinpoint passer and forcing him and most others to throw 50 times is going to cause INTs.  Just look at the two Charger games last year.  We ran 34 rush plays and 23 pass plays in the first game and won.  In the playoff game we had one good drive in which we ran 7 times and passed 3.  Ran it right down the field and stuck it in the endzone.  Once you take that drive out, our dumbass OC called 48 pass plays and 13 rush plays. You abandon the rush game like that, you are just begging for interceptions and that's what we got.  I don't place the blame on any player, I place it squarely where it belongs...On Marvin and Gruden.  Physical play on offense is the main reason the stealers kicked our asses for two decades.  When we get physical on offense, that is when we will advance in the playoffs.  If Hue Jackson is who he says he is, and he does what he says he will do, this will be the best team we have ever had.  Then we will know just how blind B.A.B is.  I'm excited and hoping to be a huge Hue Jackson fan.

[|schotzee|]

 
It's not about loyalty, it's about your bias, since you and Scharm share a similar position on Andy, you agree with any point he makes, regardless of the lack of true probability.  SF2, a poster I've debated from the opposing side many a time, constantly and consistently has shown salient points as his basis of his theory, while Scharm has used exceptions and improbabilities to try to refute those points.  SF2 is no Andy Lover, but he understands that the odds of picking someone up in FA or without having one of the top picks in the draft, are rare occasions, not something that two or three teams just do every year and go straight to the playoffs.  

I don't think it's so rare, in that Scharm pointed out 25% of the playoff teams last year,were there w/o a QB they drafted .

[B.A.B.]

3 times in as many years and I'm going to start putting some blame on the player. Caaaaalllll me craaaaaazy

[bengalsfansince68]

3 times in as many years and I'm going to start putting some blame on the player. Caaaaalllll me craaaaaazy

Crazy? Maybe, maybe not...Badly misinformed?  ABSOLUTELY!!!

[T-Dub]

3 times in as many years and I'm going to start putting some blame on the player. Caaaaalllll me craaaaaazy

 

 

But only one player.  Yeah, that is kinda crazy.

[bengalsfansince68]

Here's something to think about BAB...7 of the top 10 teams in rush attempts made the playoffs and the 3 that did not had no pass game at all.  7 of the top 10 teams in pass attempts did not make the playoffs and the 3 that did were Brady, Brees and Manning.  The rush game is integral whether you can understand it or not.

[|SF2|]

I don't think it's so rare, in that Scharm pointed out 25% of the playoff teams last year,were there w/o a QB they drafted .

This is true but the fact remains they replaced really bad QBs. My cousin has lived 5 blocks from the Superdome for 20 years. Knows most of the Saints front office guys. Aaron Brooks could barely read nor understand the playbook. Said Blake getting hurt (they love Jeff down there) allowed Brooks to take over late in the season and win their first ever playoff game. He simply could not run Sean Peyton's offense well.

Smith took over for Matt Cassel who is simply NOT NFL starting material. Yeah, he had 1 good season at New England, a team that went 18-1 the previous year.

Manning is what he is and only became available to the Broncos because he is Peyton Manning. He took over for Tim Tebow for God's sake.

BTW, you named 3 of the 4 guys I said sign. 4 guys in 10 years.

[scharm]

 

It's not about loyalty, it's about your bias, since you and Scharm share a similar position on Andy, you agree with any point he makes, regardless of the lack of true probability.  SF2, a poster I've debated from the opposing side many a time, constantly and consistently has shown salient points as his basis of his theory, while Scharm has used exceptions and improbabilities to try to refute those points.  SF2 is no Andy Lover, but he understands that the odds of picking someone up in FA or without having one of the top picks in the draft, are rare occasions, not something that two or three teams just do every year and go straight to the playoffs.  

 

SF2 said "no alternatives".    He didn't talk about odds until it was pointed out to him how frequent it actually happens.    Then he tries to limit the time period as to establish that as the norm although the Salary Cap Era and Free Agency Era of the NFL remains.

 

Yes,  the Bengals had NO Alternatives but to sign Dalton to an extension if you accept SF's truth as follows:

 

1. Franchise Tag - not available or won't use

2. Jason Campbell doesn't have NFL starts and hasn't worked with Hue

3. QBs drafted after round 4 have 0 chance of being successful

4. Free Agency can't provide productive QB starters

5. A new starter at QB must be decidely better than the one he replaces regardless of team success

 

It is SF that has used exceptions and improbabilities because he can't refute the reality of the NFL system that regulates the league today.   It's evident because he tries to blantantly mark off Peyton Manning as an example.  

[|kennethmw|]

I don't think it's so rare, in that Scharm pointed out 25% of the playoff teams last year,were there w/o a QB they drafted .

 

Those 4 QB'S were Manning, who only became available due to injury, but is arguably the greatest QB in league history, Brees, who has been playing for the saints for the last 8 years, and was only moved because the front office took a QB in the top 4 AND he got injured, Smith, a #1 overall pick, who has never played like one, and Cassel, a product of the Belicheat hype machine, who just like all the coaches who have left, haven't been able to do anything outside of the Boston bubble.  I too would have taken either of the first two, but neither of the others are close to the player Dalton is.

[scharm]

I don't think it's so rare, in that Scharm pointed out 25% of the playoff teams last year,were there w/o a QB they drafted .

 

Or the Number of NFL MVPs were QB that were not drafted by the team they played for

 

Or about number of Superbowl teams QB'd by a player not drafted by them since 2000.

[|kennethmw|]

 

SF2 said "no alternatives".    He didn't talk about odds until it was pointed out to him how frequent it actually happens.    Then he tries to limit the time period as to establish that as the norm although the Salary Cap Era and Free Era of the NFL remains.

 

Yes,  the Bengals had NO Alternatives but to sign Dalton to an extension if you accept SF's truth as follows:

 

1. Franchise Tag - not available or won't use

2. Jason Campbell doesn't have NFL starts and hasn't worked with Hue

3. QBs drafted after round 4 have 0 chance of being successful

4. Free Agency can't provide productive QB starters

5. A new starter at QB must be decidely better than the one he replaces regardless of team success

 

It is SF that has used exceptions and improbabilities because he can't refute the reality of the NFL system that regulates the league today.   It's evident because he tries to blantantly mark off Peyton Manning as an example.  

 

Scharm, I do appreciate your ability to stick  to a point, even though it's a foolish one.  You could run for office as a republican.

[scharm]

 

Those 4 QB'S were Manning, who only became available due to injury, but is arguably the greatest QB in league history, Brees, who has been playing for the saints for the last 8 years, and was only moved because the front office took a QB in the top 4 AND he got injured, Smith, a #1 overall pick, who has never played like one, and Cassel, a product of the Belicheat hype machine, who just like all the coaches who have left, haven't been able to do anything outside of the Boston bubble.  I too would have taken either of the first two, but neither of the others are close to the player Dalton is.

 

This is an example of using exception.       You have to remember the SF standpoint was they had no alternative to sign Dalton this season.

 

Simply is not true.  

 

Scharm, I do appreciate your ability to stick  to a point, even though it's a foolish one.  You could run for office as a republican.

 

Dispute it.    Start with no. 1.   Tell me why the Bengals could not have placed a franchise tag on Dalton next year.   Despite Mike Brown making it clear he would.

 

Then we will move on No. 2. 

[|kennethmw|]

 

This is an example of using exception.       You have to remember the SF standpoint was they had no alternative to sign Dalton this season.

 

Simply is not true.  

 

Dispute it.    Start with no. 1.   Tell me why the Bengals could not have placed a franchise tag on Dalton next year.   Despite Mike Brown making it clear he would.

 

Then we will move on No. 2. 

 

Forgive me, Scharm, but I have zero desire to get into one of your little goalposts moving discussions.  I much prefer just to laugh at your illogical thought patterns.  Have a nice day!

[scharm]

hmmmmm the NFL system is illogical according to Kenny. 

[Orange 'n Black]

Most (not all) of those names haven't led any team to the playoffs so its tough to shit the bed in them.

 

The only names he has really given me that are legit are:

 

Plummer (never made playoffs in 6 years at Arizona before he went to Denver, thus he never shit the bed)

 

Manning.  Ok I admit we should have signed him, thats one. (By the way he started his playoff career 0-3, the third loss a 41-0 BED SHITTING. 137 yards passing, 0 TDs, 2ints,  DAMN, should have cut his sorry ass)  It took Manning 6 years to win his first playoff game.  Bed shitter.

 

 

Brees: Ok I admit we should have signed him, thats two. (BTW, it took him 6 seasons to win his first playoff game, never did it in SD and he really sucked in his 3rd year there being replaced by Doug Flutie at one point.  Dude, you got benched for a 41 year old)

 

Alex Smith: 1-1 in playoffs on a GREAT defensive team.  He was SF's Andy but is pretty good.  Go ahead and sign him.

 

Kurt Warner:  I already said sign him.

 

Who am I leaving out?  McNabb?  Vick?  Schaub?

 

Like I said, there are not that many out there and you conveniently forget how long it took for any of those available to actually play in a playoff game let alone WIN ONE.

 

The "he sucks in the playoffs" argument has gone past beating a dead horse, that horse has been chopped up and launched into outer space. It's an argument that literally has no meaning. A playoff game is no different from a regular season game, except the opponent is better. 

 

It's like saying "he's no good at 4pm kickoff games, but he plays great at noon games."

[Dautcom08]

 

Or the Number of NFL MVPs were QB that were not drafted by the team they played for

 

Or about number of Superbowl teams QB'd by a player not drafted by them since 2000.

One could interpret this as the team's that drafted said quarterbacks moved on too early in that QBs career and they eventually went on to have success as their careers progressed in the NFL.

[Marvin]

One thing is becoming clear though, it takes time for great quarterbacks to become great quarterbacks. I talk about it a lot with my buddies, fans of all sport have become really impatient with player development. Wunderkinds are great and rare but most players need work to see their true potential.