T-Dub Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Eh, blindly supporting Dalton after year 2 didn't work. After year 3 didn't work. Blindly supporting him after year 4 into 5 isn't going to work either. That's pretty much what I said; it's change for the sake of change. It's hardly "blindly supporting" someone if I don't want to replace him with someone equally-or-more shitty with zero potential upside. Dalton may not improve so let's bring in a guy that's already peaked? I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 That's pretty much what I said; it's change for the sake of change. It's hardly "blindly supporting" someone if I don't want to replace him with someone equally-or-more shitty with zero potential upside. Dalton may not improve so let's bring in a guy that's already peaked? I don't get it. I think he's saying that provide Cutler with an OLine like the Bengals, which is dramatically better than the OLines Cutler's used to playing behind, and his chances to improve this team are much greater than Dalton's due to Cutler not having the physical limitations that Dalton has. There is basically zero intermediate passing game with AD. It's mostly within 5 yds of the LOS or its deep passes. Nothing in between. Hard to function that way, as we've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think he's saying that provide Cutler with an OLine like the Bengals, which is dramatically better than the OLines Cutler's used to playing behind, and his chances to improve this team are much greater than Dalton's due to Cutler not having the physical limitations that Dalton has. There is basically zero intermediate passing game with AD. It's mostly within 5 yds of the LOS or its deep passes. Nothing in between. Hard to function that way, as we've seen. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Eh, blindly supporting Dalton after year 2 didn't work. After year 3 didn't work. Blindly supporting him after year 4 into 5 isn't going to work either. The 2013 Bengals were exponentially better than in '11 or '12. That 2011 team was CLEARLY the worst team in the playoffs. How many winning teams did the Bengals beat in '11? Why should they suddenly have been good enough to go on the road and beat the Texans? 2012 wasn't much better. They snuck into the playoffs. Rather than enjoy a pretty good football team that got lucky, Bengal Fan decided to ignore the fact that those were flawed teams that didn't have much business playing alongside the big boys. If the Bengals had finished 7th or 8th (which they deserved) instead of 6th in those two years, qualifying and then losing in 2013 would have been seen as huge progress. The '13 Bengals were one of the Top 5 or 6 teams in the league. They should've beaten the breaks off of San Diego. They collapsed. Andy Dalton deserves as much of the blame as anyone else. What he doesn't deserve is for that blame to be compounded with "two other playoff failures". That's ludicrous. 2014? Dude, if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning had gotten a team into the playoffs without their top two receivers and top two tight ends, it'd be considered part of their legacy. "Injuries finally caught up with them...", "....willed his team into the playoffs", whatever... I said in another thread that I wouldn't have put my life on hold and gone to Indy for the game if I had known that A.J. Green and Jermaine Gresham weren't going to play. I meant it. I love the Bengals. LOVE THEM FUCKERS. But I'm a realist. They weren't going to beat the Colts this weekend. And with the personnel they were forced to trot out, they could play the game ten times, and probably not win it. Not with Dalton at quarterback. Not with Cutler at QB. And certainly not with Colt McCoy, Shaun Hill, Kirk Cousins, or whatever scrub-of-the-month at QB. As far as I'm concerned, Andy Dalton has had one legitimate shot to make a run at the Super Bowl - 2013. He failed. Marvin Lewis failed. (Gasp) Mike Zimmer failed. The whole organization shit the bed. You'd sleep easier if you recognized that the 2013 loss is a moment in time and NOT, like too many people feel, a pattern of failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think he's saying that provide Cutler with an OLine like the Bengals, which is dramatically better than the OLines Cutler's used to playing behind, and his chances to improve this team are much greater than Dalton's due to Cutler not having the physical limitations that Dalton has. There is basically zero intermediate passing game with AD. It's mostly within 5 yds of the LOS or its deep passes. Nothing in between. Hard to function that way, as we've seen. Give Andy Dalton Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett, and Matt Forte to throw the ball to, and let me know how that works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Give Andy Dalton Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett, and Matt Forte to throw the ball to, and let me know how that works out. Hard to throw to them when you're running for your life....Cutler has been amongst the most sacked QBs in the league. Plus, AJ Green, Sanu, Gresham, Gio, Marvin Jones, Eifert, Hill.....they're not too shabby themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Give Andy Dalton Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Martellus Bennett, and Matt Forte to throw the ball to, and let me know how that works out. He would just throw it up to Marshall the entire time and sail the ball 10 yards out of bounds. Ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think he's saying that provide Cutler with an OLine like the Bengals, which is dramatically better than the OLines Cutler's used to playing behind, and his chances to improve this team are much greater than Dalton's due to Cutler not having the physical limitations that Dalton has. There is basically zero intermediate passing game with AD. It's mostly within 5 yds of the LOS or its deep passes. Nothing in between. Hard to function that way, as we've seen. I think that's a misconception based on Cutler's arm. 2014 yards/attempt cutler 6.8 dalton 7.06 2014 % of passes thrown within 10 yards of the LOS cutler: 65.1% dalton: 64.4% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 As far as I'm concerned, Andy Dalton has had one legitimate shot to make a run at the Super Bowl - 2013. He failed. Marvin Lewis failed. (Gasp) Mike Zimmer failed. The whole organization shit the bed. You'd sleep easier if you recognized that the 2013 loss is a moment in time and NOT, like too many people feel, a pattern of failure. Andy Dalton's performance in the wildcard round is a pattern of failure. All that other emotional explosion doesn't matter. The reality is this. The Bengals need better QB play. It's only a question is Dalton year 5 or whoever can give it to you. It's not that hard to beat a Dalton year 5 that is the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hard to throw to them when you're running for your life....Cutler has been amongst the most sacked QBs in the league. Plus, AJ Green, Sanu, Gresham, Gio, Marvin Jones, Eifert, Hill.....they're not too shabby themselves. FWIW Jones never played in a game, Eifert did for all of about 10 minutes, & Sanu.. IDK man I think shabby is pretty close to the mark. Dude was not much of a factor overall. Obviously AJ missed a lot of snaps & Gresham was being held together with tape the last 1/4 of the season before missing the playoff game as well.. Dalton aside it'd be interesting to actually see most or all of those guys on the field at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think that's a misconception based on Cutler's arm. 2014 yards/attempt cutler 6.8 dalton 7.06 2014 % of passes thrown within 10 yards of the LOS cutler: 65.1% dalton: 64.4% Despite missing a start. Cutler had 80 more attempts. That skews any percentage an average per attempt. Cutler over his career attempts deeper throws vs. Dalton. Obviously quality of pass protection skews that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Despite missing a start. Cutler had 80 more attempts. That skews any percentage an average per attempt. Cutler over his career attempts deeper throws vs. Dalton. Obviously quality of pass protection skews that as well. Come on scharm. I like most of your posts , but attempting long ones and completing long ones are 2 different things. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Come on scharm. I like most of your posts , but attempting long ones and completing long ones are 2 different things. ;) you will like ALL my posts or I'm putting you on ignore. I believe the offense needs to attempt more and of course complete more down the field. IMO, Cutler would improve that over year 5 Dalton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Come on scharm. I like most of your posts , but attempting long ones and completing long ones are 2 different things. ;) not to mention a missed game has no impact on averages and percentages. :32: I think people don't quite get how much every QB in the NFL throws short. Dalton doesn't do it any more than anyone else does. Heck, 64.4% might even be a career low for him. The issue with the Bengals is being more efficient with the intermediate and long throws they already throw, not worry about more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hard to throw to them when you're running for your life....Cutler has been amongst the most sacked QBs in the league. Plus, AJ Green, Sanu, Gresham, Gio, Marvin Jones, Eifert, Hill.....they're not too shabby themselves. Cutler gets sacked alot because he holds the ball too long. Always has. It's near the top of the list of reasons that cannon arm hasn't resulted in more success. Dalton has a good line. He makes it look better because he gets the ball out as fast as anyone in the league. The math is pretty simple. Did you see what just happened there? You included two guys that didn't play this year. Two more didn't play Sunday. One of them - Mohammed Sanu - doesn't belong on the list. Throwing him into a discussion with Marshall and Jeffery is laughable. Yes, Bernard and Hill make a good combo. Right now, Matt Forte and anybody are at least as good as Bernard and Hill. Matt Forte is one of the best 5 backs in the league and has been for a long time. Jeremy Hill might be in his class soon, but he's not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 not to mention a missed game has no impact on averages and percentages. no one said a missed game impacts anything. Cutler had 80 more attempts despite 1 less start. That just demostrates he throws more during a game which can skew averages and percentages if you are trying to equate those data points on how well he can attack intermediate passing routes vs another player. Also pass protection effect that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Despite missing a start. Cutler had 80 more attempts. That skews any percentage an average per attempt. Cutler over his career attempts deeper throws vs. Dalton. Obviously quality of pass protection skews that as well. So, how many of those 80 extra attempts were down the field against prevent defenses? Cutler throws the ball down the field better and more often than Dalton. Got it. Except that almost 1/3 of his completions this year were to Matt Forte out of the backfield. And as for a lack of protection being the reason for his numbers being down, how about this... Jay Cutler's best year (7.6 YPA & 12.5 YPC), he led the league, taking 52 sacks. Take your blinders off, bro. Jay Cutler has a big arm. That's it. He's inaccurate, holds the ball to long, and pouts like a little bitch as soon as things go wrong. You're pining for a guy that, in a pass happy league, has thrown for 4,000 yards ONCE in his 9 year career. Physically, he's definitely gifted. As the leader of a franchise, he's not good. His career win-loss record correctly defines him. Mike Shanahan is probably going to keep him around. They may catch lightning in a bottle. It won't last. Shanahan has never been able to sustain a relationship with a quarterback not named John Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 So, how many of those 80 extra attempts were down the field against prevent defenses? Cutler throws the ball down the field better and more often than Dalton. Got it. Except that almost 1/3 of his completions this year were to Matt Forte out of the backfield. And as for a lack of protection being the reason for his numbers being down, how about this... Jay Cutler's best year (7.6 YPA & 12.5 YPC), he led the league, taking 52 sacks. Take your blinders off, bro. Jay Cutler has a big arm. That's it. He's inaccurate, holds the ball to long, and pouts like a little bitch as soon as things go wrong. You're pining for a guy that, in a pass happy league, has thrown for 4,000 yards ONCE in his 9 year career. Physically, he's definitely gifted. As the leader of a franchise, he's not good. His career win-loss record correctly defines him. Mike Shanahan is probably going to keep him around. They may catch lightning in a bottle. It won't last. Shanahan has never been able to sustain a relationship with a quarterback not named John Elway. and alternative is Dalton year 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 A few have tossed out Mike Glennons name. I think I prefer him over Cutler and definitely RG3. Read that Zampese was high on him coming out too.Oh, and he has a hot gf in case anyone wondered.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Cutler was evaluated, drafted, traded for, and paid like he could become a top 5 QB. That's fact. He has top 5 abilities. Fact. When they asked Jay Cutler what uniform number he wanted he picked six. However, it looks like the Bears are moving towards Shanahan as the next coach so I bet he will be happy to ride with Cutler again. Yesterday Ex-GM Phil Savage addressed the Bears situation. Nutshelled, Cutler's contract is an anchor that can't and won't be unloaded, dictating the Bear's head coaching search be limited in a practical sense to those who might be able to salvage Cutler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 A few have tossed out Mike Glennons name. I think I prefer him over Cutler and definitely RG3. Read that Zampese was high on him coming out too.Oh, and he has a hot gf in case anyone wondered.:) If the Bengals could trade anything less than a second for Mike Glennon, they should. As backup quarterbacks go, he'd be at the head of the class. Just as importantly, he'd give the Bengals an alternative to Dalton without creating an immediate controversy or blowing up the whole team. Dalton looking over his shoulder wouldn't be a bad thing. Having the rug pulled out from under him could be a disaster. Mike Glennon's got as much arm talent as anyone in football. He's completely immobile and will make a stupid decision now and again. I don't know what he did to Lovie Smith. I refuse to believe Glennon found the bench because Lovie wanted "his guy", so it has to pre-snap stuff of preparation - things we can't see. Regardless, Mike Glennon in Bengal stripes would be a good thing on a lot of different levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|schotzee| Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 If the Bengals could trade anything less than a second for Mike Glennon, they should. As backup quarterbacks go, he'd be at the head of the class. Just as importantly, he'd give the Bengals an alternative to Dalton without creating an immediate controversy or blowing up the whole team. Dalton looking over his shoulder wouldn't be a bad thing. Having the rug pulled out from under him could be a disaster. Mike Glennon's got as much arm talent as anyone in football. He's completely immobile and will make a stupid decision now and again. I don't know what he did to Lovie Smith. I refuse to believe Glennon found the bench because Lovie wanted "his guy", so it has to pre-snap stuff of preparation - things we can't see. Regardless, Mike Glennon in Bengal stripes would be a good thing on a lot of different levels. Here's to hoping for that. Jason Campbell being brought back sure as hell won't make Dalton look over his shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Alice Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Here's to hoping for that. Jason Campbell being brought back sure as hell won't make Dalton look over his shoulder. Nor will A.J. McCarron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Nor will A.J. McCarron. Maybe not, but he's more promising than any of the names I've seen floated so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 If the Bengals could trade anything less than a second for Mike Glennon, they should. As backup quarterbacks go, he'd be at the head of the class. Just as importantly, he'd give the Bengals an alternative to Dalton without creating an immediate controversy or blowing up the whole team. Dalton looking over his shoulder wouldn't be a bad thing. Having the rug pulled out from under him could be a disaster. Mike Glennon's got as much arm talent as anyone in football. He's completely immobile and will make a stupid decision now and again. I don't know what he did to Lovie Smith. I refuse to believe Glennon found the bench because Lovie wanted "his guy", so it has to pre-snap stuff of preparation - things we can't see. Regardless, Mike Glennon in Bengal stripes would be a good thing on a lot of different levels. Living in Tampa and having a ton of Bucs fans as friends and watching their games, Glennon was pretty good for being so young. He literally did nothing on the field to warrant being benched, and he has some talent. No one down here can figure out why he hasnt been playing, other than Lovie wanted his guy. I think it may be as simple as that. Or maybe Lovie doesnt like dudes with giraffe necks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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