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I_C_Deadpeople

Definition of Absolute Rock Bottom

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Was thinking of what kind of absolute rock bottom (off season) it would take to actually make some changes in this operation. Feel free to pile on:

 

1. Greater than 50% of season ticket holders and corporate sponsors do not renew

2. AJ leaves

3. Mixon holds out

4. Top 3 guys in the draft all declare they will sit out the year if drafted by the Bengals

5. They fire ZT but can't land any even average HC candidate.

 

Would love to see #1 and #4

 

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54 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Was thinking of what kind of absolute rock bottom (off season) it would take to actually make some changes in this operation. Feel free to pile on:

 

1. Greater than 50% of season ticket holders and corporate sponsors do not renew

2. AJ leaves

3. Mixon holds out

4. Top 3 guys in the draft all declare they will sit out the year if drafted by the Bengals

5. They fire ZT but can't land any even average HC candidate.

 

Would love to see #1 and #4

 

What kind of changes are you talking about?

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

What kind of changes are you talking about?

Significant ones , ones that would make a difference. Not the mealy ones Mikey has done from time to time. What will it take to destroy the current organization

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8 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Was thinking of what kind of absolute rock bottom (off season) it would take to actually make some changes in this operation. Feel free to pile on:

 

1. Greater than 50% of season ticket holders and corporate sponsors do not renew

2. AJ leaves

3. Mixon holds out

4. Top 3 guys in the draft all declare they will sit out the year if drafted by the Bengals

5. They fire ZT but can't land any even average HC candidate.

 

Would love to see #1 and #4

 

 Allow a question as to 1:

 

Unless your feet have ever been inside PBS, why is it so important to you that other people who do, not continue? 

 

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6 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Significant ones , ones that would make a difference. Not the mealy ones Mikey has done from time to time. What will it take to destroy the current organization

Change in ownership, anything less is just window dressing

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Gotta think 0-9 and getting rolled by 36 coming out of the Bye week has to be near the bottom.   The team was down 25 by mid 2nd quarter.   Anyone seen Cordy Glenn?  

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You guys don't recognize success when you see it. The defense only gave up 379 yards yesterday (thanks to 2 Ravens defensive TDs). That breaks our record tying streak of allowing 450+ yards in 4 consecutive games.

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2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

 Allow a question as to 1:

 

Unless your feet have ever been inside PBS, why is it so important to you that other people who do, not continue? 

 

The thought process was that fans who did attend, give up on the current structure.  This to me would be a significant financial setback for the Browns and an almost "F U" kind of thing.

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17 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

You guys don't recognize success when you see it. The defense only gave up 379 yards yesterday (thanks to 2 Ravens defensive TDs). That breaks our record tying streak of allowing 450+ yards in 4 consecutive games.

Lou is turning the D around!

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2 hours ago, SF2 said:

Gotta think 0-9 and getting rolled by 36 coming out of the Bye week has to be near the bottom.   The team was down 25 by mid 2nd quarter.   Anyone seen Cordy Glenn?  

He was last seen in Taylor's dog house

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2 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

The thought process was that fans who did attend, give up on the current structure.  This to me would be a significant financial setback for the Browns and an almost "F U" kind of thing.

Even at the current far-less-than-capacity average of 46,345 (paid), there will be at least that number (perhaps a little less) which will always attend. Same goes for corporate.

 

Season renewals will drop of course, and new applications will be slimmer, but a lot of people will still go--even if growing numbers of opponents' "fans" will be a factor. It will still be a profitable operation--even if not wildly so. 

 

If teams leave a location, it is due to the prospects of more financial gain--and specifically stadium driven. The Rams averaged 52,402 in their 7-9 2015 season and 57,218 in a 6-10 2014. They moved--not for any real reason than other than those prospects. 

 

There are other ways to FU the Bengals, if that is what folks want to do. Just not seeing where attendance is going to be a great impact.      

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I'll be honest. It's easier to face this team at 0 and X than yet another lukewarm 4 or 6 and whatever "i kinda cared" season. 

Be the best. They are the best at sucking. Where's my Bengals jersey? Let's do this shit.

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17 minutes ago, BENGALS666 said:

I'll be honest. It's easier to face this team at 0 and X than yet another lukewarm 4 or 6 and whatever "i kinda cared" season. 

Be the best. They are the best at sucking. Where's my Bengals jersey? Let's do this shit.

 

0-16 is possible if we only believe

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3 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Even at the current far-less-than-capacity average of 46,345 (paid), there will be at least that number (perhaps a little less) which will always attend. Same goes for corporate.

 

Season renewals will drop of course, and new applications will be slimmer, but a lot of people will still go--even if growing numbers of opponents' "fans" will be a factor. It will still be a profitable operation--even if not wildly so. 

 

If teams leave a location, it is due to the prospects of more financial gain--and specifically stadium driven. The Rams averaged 52,402 in their 7-9 2015 season and 57,218 in a 6-10 2014. They moved--not for any real reason than other than those prospects. 

 

There are other ways to FU the Bengals, if that is what folks want to do. Just not seeing where attendance is going to be a great impact.      

I think the only pressure that can actually be placed on the Bengals is from the other owners.  I still believe the owners pressured Brown to hire Marvin Lewis due to the glaring issue of almost NO black head coaches in the league at the time.  Very qualified candidate and Mike Brown took one for the league which I believe insulated him from criticism for awhile.  It didn't hurt that Marvin turned an abysmal team into a decent, competitive and exciting one either.

 

At the end of the day, the Bengals and few other clubs like the Lions and Chargers are NOT doing much to sell the brand like other clubs and they only spend  up to the cap minimum which has to annoy the other owners.  Oh, and Brown's habit of being the lone voice of descent on voted issues probably doesn't help.  I doubt there is much the owners can do legally but they can sure make their opinions heard. 

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Even at the current far-less-than-capacity average of 46,345 (paid), there will be at least that number (perhaps a little less) which will always attend. Same goes for corporate.

 

Season renewals will drop of course, and new applications will be slimmer, but a lot of people will still go--even if growing numbers of opponents' "fans" will be a factor. It will still be a profitable operation--even if not wildly so. 

 

If teams leave a location, it is due to the prospects of more financial gain--and specifically stadium driven. The Rams averaged 52,402 in their 7-9 2015 season and 57,218 in a 6-10 2014. They moved--not for any real reason than other than those prospects. 

 

There are other ways to FU the Bengals, if that is what folks want to do. Just not seeing where attendance is going to be a great impact.      

Is not the attendance part of the teams revenue? That is, NOT shared?

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34 minutes ago, SF2 said:

I think the only pressure that can actually be placed on the Bengals is from the other owners.  I still believe the owners pressured Brown to hire Marvin Lewis due to the glaring issue of almost NO black head coaches in the league at the time.  Very qualified candidate and Mike Brown took one for the league which I believe insulated him from criticism for awhile.  It didn't hurt that Marvin turned an abysmal team into a decent, competitive and exciting one either.

 

At the end of the day, the Bengals and few other clubs like the Lions and Chargers are NOT doing much to sell the brand like other clubs and they only spend  up to only the cap minimum which has to annoy the other owners.  Oh, and Brown's habit of being the lone voice of descent on voted issues probably doesn't help.  I doubt there is much the owners can do legally but they can sure make their opinions heard. 

 

But plenty they can do behind the scenes, I'd guess.

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41 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

Is not the attendance part of the teams revenue? That is, NOT shared?

Very true. However, again, the less-than-capacity paid attendance is and has been sufficient to operate the franchise. It will not dip significantly in coming years to put that into danger.  

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Just now, Le Tigre said:

Very true. However, again, the less-than-capacity paid attendance is and has been sufficient to operate the franchise. It will not dip significantly in coming years to put that into danger.  

Which is why I noted it as a sign of absolute rock bottom - not saying it will happen but perhaps a groundswell movement will take place. The power of the mob. 

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Mob? There has to be anger and interest in forming a mob. MBS.com and others tried that, and failed to generate a ripple of interest--even in the earlier bad years. 

 

Haven't seen "mobs" even in worse losing franchises than this. 

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Fights in the locker room, a coach caught boofing cough drops in the park, stadium flooding from the halfassed Banks construction, maybe a barge at midfield when the water recedes..  dogs & cats living together, mass hysteria

 

The pit really is bottomless if you use your imagination.

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Mob? There has to be anger and interest in forming a mob. MBS.com and others tried that, and failed to generate a ripple of interest--even in the earlier bad years. 

 

Haven't seen "mobs" even in worse losing franchises than this. 

Yesterday between the moment of silence for Jim LeClair and the playing of the National Anthem

one loan voice high up in the north end zone yelled "Mike Brown Sucks" loud and clear for all to

hear.  Amusing or just sad depending on how you looked at it.

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2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

0-16 is possible if we only believe

Right now I would consider 1-15 or maybe 2-14 with getting the first pick in the draft

a successful season.

No curse of having a winless season hanging over the Bengals and a top choice

pick, for a change.

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2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Mob? There has to be anger and interest in forming a mob. MBS.com and others tried that, and failed to generate a ripple of interest--even in the earlier bad years. 

 

Haven't seen "mobs" even in worse losing franchises than this. 

As humorous as some of the banter on MBS.com was, in the end you simply realize that the average Joe has no power to do anything based on the revenue sharing arraignment so you simply got tired of complaining about it every day. 


As far as stadium revenue goes how much more does the club actually get?  What is the actual "profit" not revenue that those extra 20,000 tickets generate?  First of all the tickets not being sold are the upper level so figure about $50 a ticket on average times 8 games times 20,000 unsold seats is about $8,000,000.  Here is the important thing, the Bengals, as does every other team has to share 40% of their gate revenue to the NFL.  That money is put in a big pot and then shared evenly among the teams.  Basically, the per ticket profit of those extra tickets are not much considering Bengals tickets are WAY cheaper than most of the other clubs.  Yeah, now you know why owners like Jerry Jones and Bob Kraft  dislike the Browns.  

 

In simple numbers its ugly.  Based on current attendance averages:  Keep in mind 40% of gate receipts go back to the league.  Dallas and New England have been sold out for years.

 

Patriots season tickets average cost is $127 per at 65,878 seats :  $67mil revenue, $26.8 mil returned to NFL to be shared

Cowboys season tickets average cost is $110 at 91,181 seats:  $80,2 mil revenue, $32.1 mil returned to the NFL to be shared

Bengals season tickets average cost is $77 at 46,345 seats: $28.5 mil in revenues, $11.4 mil returned to the NFL to be shared.

 

And before you pull the small market card the Packers average ticket costs $123 @ 78k seats and New Orleans is $98 @ 73k seats.   Both cities metropolitan areas are WAY smaller than Cincinnati.   Winning fixes everything.

 

So basically, the Bengals are currently making way more money with the 40% shared ticket revenue they receive than from the 60% of their game gate they get to keep.  I can't even imagine what the Chargers numbers look like. 

 

 

 

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