bengaled Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, HOF dan said: I agree and if you listened to TJ Housh's interview he said the same. John Ross needs to get his confidence back. I'm with you Ed.......Marvin hurt his potential When I heard TJ's interview, and this wasn't the first time he's talked on this subject, it was like clarity went off in my head as well as all the things I had been thinking about John Ross' situation, especially as a rookie. I was incredibly irate at the time at Marvin. You just don't do that, and Ross wasn't the first player Lewis was guilty of in this regard. I was a big Marvin Lewis supporter, but this made me crazy how he treated rookies and especially the way he treated Ross. You've invested the #10 draft pick on a kid, and I don't give a fuck if he was you're selection or the owner's , or whatever...you just don't do that to a prospect. A lot of these kids come from underprivileged backgrounds anyway, and have been told all their lives they lack merit. You just don't do that shit. Some are strong enough to overcome it, but I totally understand when a kid isn't. I love Marvin Lewis, but he fucked up and went the wrong direction on John Ross. What Marvin gave him was the opposite of what he needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF dan Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 If there was one signature move of Marvin's that I hated, it was his lack of trust in rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, HOF dan said: If there was one signature move of Marvin's that I hated, it was his lack of trust in rookies. Waited on vets too long.. It caused the rooks to sit.. You cant show much when your getting 30-50 snaps for the season .... I believe he knew he lacked in alot of facets of a head coach..motivation being at top of list.. Remember the shovel approach??.."Just gotta get out their and dig" ...Really coach??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupiter Fan Posted April 19, 2020 Report Share Posted April 19, 2020 36 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Waited on vets too long.. It caused the rooks to sit.. You cant show much when your getting 30-50 snaps for the season .... I believe he knew he lacked in alot of facets of a head coach..motivation being at top of list.. Remember the shovel approach??.."Just gotta get out their and dig" ...Really coach??? Marvin was a management coach, not a development coach. Never wanted to risk showing that. When his management was exposed as subpar also it got ugly, but he still kept his job for 2 years. Sure hope Zac takes chances ML never did, he has 5 years to prove himself on the MB timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Jupiter Fan said: Marvin was a management coach, not a development coach. Never wanted to risk showing that. When his management was exposed as subpar also it got ugly, but he still kept his job for 2 years. Sure hope Zac takes chances ML never did, he has 5 years to prove himself on the MB timeline. He will..more than we can anticipate with Katy and Tobins backing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 On 4/19/2020 at 3:47 PM, bengaled said: You don't know that about the 5th year option. I'd be a helluva lot more willing to bet on him providing offense in his 4th year vs the scrapheap project type WR available after the 3rd round, not to mention that would likely ALSO fuck up our whole draft board even more, were it to transpire. That's just not very logical thinking. You let him play that 4th year out and see what transpires from what you originally invested the 10th pick in the draft in. A lot of John Ross' lack of development sits squarely on Marvin Lewis' shoulders. No one will ever convince me otherwise. He's a player that is likely moving up and it would be absolutely foolish to trade that out in his 4th year for some 3rd round project rookie WR. Let's put it like this....for one I am absolutely certain this team isn't ready to do what you and a few misguided others suggest. John Ross will play here this year and that's a virtual given. Let's revisit this in next year's offseason and we take another look at who was right and who was wrong. If it's me, I will gladly eat crow, but I am not worried about that TBH! Actually I do know about the 5th year option. What you don't seem to know is that it has to be exercised prior to the 4th season. The deadline is May 4 this year. Based on what Ross has done in his first 3 years, the team isn't going to give him a 15 mil salary for 2021, that is guaranteed for injury. Nobody else would give him that and the Browns aren't stupid enough to get fleeced by Ross' agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, sparky151 said: Actually I do know about the 5th year option. What you don't seem to know is that it has to be exercised prior to the 4th season. The deadline is May 4 this year. Based on what Ross has done in his first 3 years, the team isn't going to give him a 15 mil salary for 2021, that is guaranteed for injury. Nobody else would give him that and the Browns aren't stupid enough to get fleeced by Ross' agent. You may be right about that, but do you want to make a bet on whether he's with the team this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 Er, I don't think he'll be cut and likely won't be traded. I'd be happy to bet the team doesn't exercise his 5th year option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted April 20, 2020 Report Share Posted April 20, 2020 23 hours ago, bengaled said: When a player, especially a WR, doesn't have the trust of his head coach, he presses. When that happens he doesn't look balls into his hands before trying to make a bigger play and the result is a drop. Call me crazy, but I bet this represents a HUGE part of John Ross lack of success. A good coach is a psychiatrist and if there's a nuanced way to coach the best oout of a player, he finds it. Marvin Lewis was a good coach in many ways, but he failed horribly and in all the worst ways with the direction he chose to coach this kid. I dunno. It seems to me that Ross road the bench his rookie year due to injury and his inability to run routes properly. Also, there doesn't seem to be much history of skill players being drafted high, not doing a whole lot their first few years then all of a sudden getting it year 4. Great players are usually great day 1. Good players can be developed over time but the 5th year option on Ross is WAY too high to hope he becomes good. The other issue is can he stay healthy. I don't buy into the Marvin not trusting rookies. Mixon was drafted in the same year as Ross and got plenty of playing time his rookie season. Tyler Boyd would not have caught 54 passes his rookie year if Marvin really had it out for rookies. William Jackson playing a pretty difficult position would not have become the starter later that season either. Marvin didn't trust bad players or guys who couldn't learn the playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 3 hours ago, SF2 said: I dunno. It seems to me that Ross road the bench his rookie year due to injury and his inability to run routes properly. Also, there doesn't seem to be much history of skill players being drafted high, not doing a whole lot their first few years then all of a sudden getting it year 4. Great players are usually great day 1. Good players can be developed over time but the 5th year option on Ross is WAY too high to hope he becomes good. The other issue is can he stay healthy. I don't buy into the Marvin not trusting rookies. Mixon was drafted in the same year as Ross and got plenty of playing time his rookie season. Tyler Boyd would not have caught 54 passes his rookie year if Marvin really had it out for rookies. William Jackson playing a pretty difficult position would not have become the starter later that season either. Marvin didn't trust bad players or guys who couldn't learn the playbook. Let's see how he does in his fourth year before we start worrying about year five, and yeah, he will be with the team this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 3 hours ago, sparky151 said: Er, I don't think he'll be cut and likely won't be traded. I'd be happy to bet the team doesn't exercise his 5th year option. But earlier you were definitely arguing it would be a good idea to trade him for a third round WR project, so why in the hell are we even talking about his 5th year option, especially after you later agreed you don't think it's likely he'll be cut or traded? So just tell me this, where the hell are you exactly. I'm getting a bit dizzy trying to figure your position out? Or is it that you just enjoy arguing a point you basically don't believe a whole lot in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 On 4/19/2020 at 5:55 PM, HOF dan said: If there was one signature move of Marvin's that I hated, it was his lack of trust in rookies. yep.. The one that always stuck out the worst to me was Geno. You could tell he was a beast instantly and he was getting so few snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 3 hours ago, bengaled said: Let's see how he does in his fourth year before we start worrying about year five, and yeah, he will be with the team this year. That isn’t how it works. The Bengals have to exercise the option in a few weeks, not during the season. He would need to have a great season for the Bengals to sign him to a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 14 hours ago, bengaled said: But earlier you were definitely arguing it would be a good idea to trade him for a third round WR project, so why in the hell are we even talking about his 5th year option, especially after you later agreed you don't think it's likely he'll be cut or traded? So just tell me this, where the hell are you exactly. I'm getting a bit dizzy trying to figure your position out? Or is it that you just enjoy arguing a point you basically don't believe a whole lot in? I think Ross is an asset who can be traded for a better player at a position of greater need. He could be part of a trade for an O-lineman like Jackson or Thuney or Williams. But I doubt our front office is capable of pulling it off. So I think he'll be here for 2020 and likely gone in 2021, looking for a new start somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 Does Ross not have a $9M salary this season? Or at least that amount of cap hit if cut or traded. The thinking would be for that amount of 'dead' money you might as well try and use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfine Posted April 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: Does Ross not have a $9M salary this season? Or at least that amount of cap hit if cut or traded. The thinking would be for that amount of 'dead' money you might as well try and use him. We only take the cap hit if cut. If we trade the cap goes with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, bfine said: We only take the cap hit if cut. If we trade the cap goes with him So we arent trading him with that hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_C_Deadpeople Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: So we arent trading him with that hit. That is what I was getting at as well, he is un-tradeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said: That is what I was getting at as well, he is un-tradeable When first round picks dont produce your cap is screwd down the line.. Like this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfine Posted April 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, claptonrocks said: So we arent trading him with that hit. His Cap hit is $5.4 Mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, bfine said: His Cap hit is $5.4 Mil. Dont think a team wants that hit due to his production... We re just Hoping he finally shines a light but its only a flicker right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Dont think a team wants that hit due to his production... We re just Hoping he finally shines a light but its only a flicker right now... I am having a lot of hope for this kid, still. I'm expecting him to breakout in a way most are not expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, bengaled said: I am having a lot of hope for this kid, still. I'm expecting him to breakout in a way most are not expecting. Im ridin with you .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, claptonrocks said: Im ridin with you .. Joe would be riding him too, riding him right through the big holes he creates. Mixon be like Tom Hanks in Castaway...."Where's my Wilson...where's my Wilson", lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claptonrocks Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, bengaled said: Joe would be riding him too, riding him right through the big holes he creates. Mixon be like Tom Hanks in Castaway...."Where's my Wilson...where's my Wilson", lol. 😄...thing is ..your probably right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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