Rookie Report Card (so far)

[texbengal]

Asmittedly I wasn't stoked with the Murphy pick, but he's talented. And he's making progress. He doesn't finish well (yet), but he's flashing more and more. I have high hopes for him... it was clearly a "traits" pick since he wasn't a mega producer at Clemson, but you can see the talent. Like a lot of young guys, it comes down to consistency. Same deal with Turner - you definitely see some great plays, but then you'll see some bad plays sprinkled in there too. That's part of the learning and maturation process... we saw it with CTB last year, but now, you're seeing much more good than bad. What I like about Turner, besides his coverage ability and speed, is his willingness and ability to tackle. Between him and CTB, that's a great thing to see. 

 

Battle is intriguing... not the best athlete, but smart, physical, and doesn't make a ton of mistakes (like Scott seemed to). He's a playmaker, and I think he and Hill will make a good tandem. That said, even if Scott has lost the starting S job, he's still useful on STs and you can do a lot worse for a 3rd safety. That's really where he made his mark in LA, before he started on D there. 

I loved Charlie Jones at Purdue, and could see him being the #3 next year. He needs to get more physical/stronger, but he gives you more open-field ability than Tyler Boyd does. Great hands, too, although with a few notable exceptions, Boyd surely has that, too.  Iosivas - interesting player, talented. But I love what Irwin brings as a receiver and a blocker, and I don't see Iosivas at that level yet. But he's useful and hopefully will develop, and in the meantime, he's been solid on STs and he's physical. 

And Robbins... not consistent, but you see some great punts - and unfortunately, some bad ones too. You don't see a lot of punts returned, which is positive. Just needs to get more distance at times. 

 

Overall, it's a very good class... and it's good to see immediate contributions from several... and given the salary cap situation with JB, Jamar coming up, possibly Tee, maybe Reader... draft classes will have to be that way, where they will get immediate contributions from several picks. 

[Jamie_B]

Guess this is a good place for this......

 

 

[I_C_Deadpeople]

2 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

The question going forward, specifically with the relationship to FAs and the Draft, is now that Joe is paid and we are getting ready to pay Jamar, what do the finances around other FAs look like? Are we going to have to go cheaper and pick up the Nick Scotts of the world while relying on the draft more for the talent that we need to be starting? Or will they continue to be spenders in FA? That may require they get creative with contracts, and that is something the Bengals have not changed in how they do business. This means that we might be more reliant on the draft than FA for finding talent, and that means the smallest scouting department in the league might have to get bigger.

The Blackburn gals have defintely moved the needle in terms of org changes needed to compete (guaranteed money, etc) and they need to do this further as we go along the JB window.  The ebbs and flows of the draft seem to result in periods where guys dont turn out so you need to pick up more free agents and then when they do turn out you have too many to re-sign.  Working in our favor (all teams favor really) is the huge increase coming in the cap over the next few years. This will spur many cap magic contracts for sure. 

 

End of the day - keep drafting well and supplement with free agents as needed. 

[PatternMaster]

2 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

Guess this is a good place for this......

 

 

 

I noticed Scott was out of position and whiffed on a tackle early in the game vs. Ravens and then Battle played most of the game afterwards...Scott has been a disappointment but he wasn't very good in LA with the Rams so not sure why they thought he would be some adequate starter here. He's a good role player and ST player but he doesn't seem to understand angles and struggles with tackling, which is tough if that's your two main job functions...great athlete though...

[Jamie_B]

3 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

 

I noticed Scott was out of position and whiffed on a tackle early in the game vs. Ravens and then Battle played most of the game afterwards...Scott has been a disappointment but he wasn't very good in LA with the Rams so not sure why they thought he would be some adequate starter here. He's a good role player and ST player but he doesn't seem to understand angles and struggles with tackling, which is tough if that's your two main job functions...great athlete though...

 

 

I'm all for getting the young guys as much playing time now as possible, I don't think we are going to make the playoffs, and getting the young guys time now will pay off dividends when the season starts next year. Battle and Turner should come on strong out of the gate next year as starters.

[PatternMaster]

2 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

I'm all for getting the young guys as much playing time now as possible, I don't think we are going to make the playoffs, and getting the young guys time now will pay off dividends when the season starts next year. Battle and Turner should come on strong out of the gate next year as starters.

 

I hear ya, I think they should play the best players and Scott has played himself onto the bench. Battle was impressive during the preseason and probably should have been playing more. I know against the Texans the safety play was bad, I would have loved to see what Battle could have done in that game instead of Scott looking lost out there. 

[Jamie_B]

Just now, PatternMaster said:

 

I hear ya, I think they should play the best players and Scott has played himself onto the bench. Battle was impressive during the preseason and probably should have been playing more. I know against the Texans the safety play was bad, I would have loved to see what Battle could have done in that game instead of Scott looking lost out there. 

 

I wish Anderson could stay healthy, he has the tools to be a good #3 

[claptonrocks]

12 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

I wish Anderson could stay healthy, he has the tools to be a good #3 

Agree.

Love this kids athleticism .

His speed is top tier.

 

[gupps]

8 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Asking rhetorically, Gupps, not directed at you. 

 

Understood and no problem. 🙂

 

I swear, sometimes watching the front office is like watching a slasher flick. Instead of screaming "Don't go into the basement" it's "Don't take the wide receiver!".

 

[|High School Harry|]

1 hour ago, gupps said:

 

Understood and no problem. 🙂

 

I swear, sometimes watching the front office is like watching a slasher flick. Instead of screaming "Don't go into the basement" it's "Don't take the wide receiver!".

 

Yeah, but they always go in the basement and take a wide receiver... always.

And look for Offensive linemen behind the chainsaws and wonder why their generational quarterback

gets injured.

[sparky151]

They should let Awuzie, Boyd, and Williams walk. The replacements would be Turner, Jones, and a mystery RT. We also have nothing at TE, not much at RB, and nobody behind Karras (our oldest starter) at C. Bengals are about 11.9 mil under the 2023 cap and with it rolled over to 2024 will be about 70 mil under the cap. So we have plenty of money to keep Reader and/or Higgins and add a modestly priced free agent or two. At the least we should tag Higgins and keep him. We may or may not extend Chase depending on his price the next offseason. He's got 2 more years on his rookie deal then could be tagged a couple of times so he's 4 years away from free agency after 2023. 

[gupps]

12 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Yeah, but they always go in the basement and take a wide receiver... always.

And look for Offensive linemen behind the chainsaws and wonder why their generational quarterback

gets injured.

 

When you're in the Bengals front office, you take the wide receiver. It's what you do.

 

 

[stryker57]

On 11/21/2023 at 11:56 AM, claptonrocks said:

I see a young kid (21) that has the physical attributes to become a solid DE..

Cant condem him for his little usage up to now.

Let him grow into his role.

 

 

i do agree, but shouldnt we expect a more finished and prepared player from the 1st round?  if he's 21 and needs time , for me thats not a 1st rounder . thats a project.  

[stryker57]

On 11/21/2023 at 5:02 PM, T-Dub said:

Murphy's behind some very talented vets. Im sure he'd be starting on a shittier defense. He was a hedge against losing some of those in FA.

 

Whether he was the smart pick given team needs and the available draft pool is still an unanswered question. 

yes but that leads back to the time period of  the bengals being proud they still have 80% of their draft picks on the roster, too bad we were out of the play offs every October ,  but our draft picks stayed in the nfl more then any other nfl teams... 

 

thats said.... i hope he is good,  however a 1st rounder should be able to step in on a rotation position and at least hold his own. 

[sparky151]

21 hours ago, stryker57 said:

i do agree, but shouldnt we expect a more finished and prepared player from the 1st round?  if he's 21 and needs time , for me thats not a 1st rounder . thats a project.  

 

Yeah, Murphy is a project. He's a great athlete but not very polished. He doesn't have a lot of pass rush moves and his run defense has been terrible in limited snaps this season. The bigger issue is that both Hendrickson and Hubbard are going to be around through 2025 so we'll have to make a decision on Murphy's 5th year option before he ever becomes a starter. You don't draft backups in the first round, you draft guys you expect to become starters but he isn't going to beat out either Trey or Sam for a starting job. Currently, he's not even better than Ossai or Sample. 

[|High School Harry|]

10 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

Yeah, Murphy is a project. He's a great athlete but not very polished. He doesn't have a lot of pass rush moves and his run defense has been terrible in limited snaps this season. The bigger issue is that both Hendrickson and Hubbard are going to be around through 2025 so we'll have to make a decision on Murphy's 5th year option before he ever becomes a starter. You don't draft backups in the first round, you draft guys you expect to become starters but he isn't going to beat out either Trey or Sam for a starting job. Currently, he's not even better than Ossai or Sample. 

esp when there are players who can make more of a contribution at positions of immediate need on the board.

Always with the freakin' 20/20 hindsight but we should have gotten Carl Lawson back before the trade deadline

and extended him cheap for another couple years.

 

[Jamie_B]

29 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

 

Yeah, Murphy is a project. He's a great athlete but not very polished. He doesn't have a lot of pass rush moves and his run defense has been terrible in limited snaps this season. The bigger issue is that both Hendrickson and Hubbard are going to be around through 2025 so we'll have to make a decision on Murphy's 5th year option before he ever becomes a starter. You don't draft backups in the first round, you draft guys you expect to become starters but he isn't going to beat out either Trey or Sam for a starting job. Currently, he's not even better than Ossai or Sample. 

 

I'm not going to pretend that I was happy with the pick, I would have liked a TE as well, but keep in mind TEs are one of the positions that take longer than other positions to develop, so I'm not so sure we would have gotten the production out of that spot from a rookie right away either. The other part of that is does Murphy grade higher at DE than let's say Mayer does at TE. And no I'm not talking about Mayer being one of the tops in his position group, as he was the one on the board for us that was rated the highest seeing as Buffalo had already taken Kincaid. Or does Mayer even fit what we like about the position? But I'm talking about weighing the talent alongside the importance of the position. DE is a FAR more important position than TE, so the question becomes does Murphy at the position of DE give you more in the long term; because the draft is always about the long term when you are drafting as low as we were drafting, than a Mayer at TE would over the long term? The Bengals obviously believe he does.

 

If you are drafting at the bottom of the draft it means your team is pretty much solid, so you are absolutely drafting a backup in the first round.

 

At least for that year. Sample and Ossai are up one year before Sam and Trey. Obviously, we are not keeping all 4 guys, and very likely going to lose Sam and Trey. He may not be better than Sample and Ossai right now, but at the same time, neither of those guys has shown they warrant a 2nd contract yet (I had hopes for Ossai and he may still turn it around, but he's been a disappointment so far this year). This means in the next two years you are going to have to find 2 more DEs and in the next 3 years, at minimum one more starter. You aren't going to find 4 new guys that quickly if you don't take a DE sooner than later (this past offseason) and you will hamper yourself even more the longer you wait.

[stryker57]

he should be able to spell and give quality snaps.  will some be  learning material to coach him? sure... , but if a round 2 player can step in and produce while learning then then the average nfl fan should be allowed to consider the same for a 1st rounder..  looking back in history , is this going to be the same bs cheap ass bengals play like they did with Whitworth? draft 1st  "potential" then all the while they dont show production, still use it as a bargining chip at the veteran player? lose the vet and then watch the rookie still not produce? 

[Jamie_B]

 

[Jamie_B]

Their final report for the  year.

 

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/01/09/cincinnati-bengals-final-rookie-report-card/

 

Cincinnati Bengals Final Rookie Report Card

Myles Murphy – EDGE / Grade: B+

The Bengals first overall pick in their 2023 draft class played in all 17 games and came on strong late in the season. Murphy gained valuable experience and reps in his freshman act as he ended the year with three sacks and 10 solo tackles. The bend and quickness off the edge that he was consistently showing is a good sign for 2024.

DJ Turner II – CB / Grade: B-

Turner started hot in his first season in stripes but fizzled out late in the year. The ball tracking and recovery skills that were evident early, were significantly lacking in the last quarter of 2023. Look for Turner to rebound nicely next season as he will likely be a starting outside cornerback for this Bengals team.

Jordan Battle – S / Grade: A

he player who made the biggest jump in performance from our initial rankings until now was Battle. He would take the bulk of the safety snaps over Nick Scott in Week 11 and would never look back.

Battle is a very instinctive and physical player at the line of scrimmage. He would end his rookie campaign with 34 solo tackles, two sacks, and one interception. He is the future of the backend for Cincinnati along with second-year player Dax Hill.

Charlie Jones – WR/PR / Grade: C+

Jones was slightly demoted from our initial grade due to his limitations in the passing game in 2023. He was average as a punt returner with one touchdown but offered very little as a wide receiver this season. He should have a much bigger role for the Bengals in 2024 and could be the replacement in the slot if Tyler Boyd departs in free agency.

Chase Brown – RB / Grade: B

Another late bloomer in the Bengals rookie class was running back Chase Brown. In the second half of the season, Brown saw a more even distribution of snaps with veteran Joe Mixon. The duo made a solid one-two punch with Mixon being the power back and Brown bringing the speed and finesse.  The aspect of Brown’s game that the Bengals can lean on next season is his explosiveness in the screen game. Brown played in 12 games and would finish with 44 carries for 179 yards for an average of 4.07.

 

 

Andrei Iosivas – WR / Grade: B+

The Bengals may have found something in former Princeton Tiger Andrei Iosivas. When Joe Burrow was healthy, Iosivas just seemed to have a knack for finding the end zone and was also excelling with off-script plays when Burrow would break the pocket. This trend continued with Jake Browning as the quarterback, and the route running for Iosivas seemed to improve with the more reps he received in Tee Higgins’s absence. Burrow should be able to unlock even more productivity next season for Iosivas.

 

 

Brad Robbins P / Grade: F

Robbins had a dreadful rookie season, and that might be a generous statement. Going into the season finale against the Cleveland Browns, Robbins ranked 32nd in the NFL in punter EPA averaging only 41.2 yards per punt. Special teams coordinator Darrin Simmons knows there’s room for improvement and noted, “He still has a lot to learn and how to grow, punting in the NFL, it’s not about lining up back up there and swinging away and hitting the ball as high as far as you can. So much situational stuff that comes into play.” Don’t be surprised if the Bengals bring in a punter in training camp next season to challenge Robbins.

DJ Ivey – CB / Grade: Still Incomplete

Ivey was getting playing time at cornerback and as a gunner on special teams. Unfortunately, he tore his ACL against the Minnesota Vikings in Week 15 ending his season.  Ivey was impressing the Bengals with his length and physicality.  Cincinnati will ease him back into the lineup after monitoring his recovery from injury next season.

Main Photo: Sam Greene/The Enquirer-USA TODAY NETWORK

[Jamie_B]

That is a pretty mixed (and imo fair) result.

 

Murphy, Yoshi, Battle, Brown, all went up.

 

Turner, Jones, and Robbns all went down.

 

Out of this class the only one I am looking for at minium competition if not to be outright replaced next year is Robbins. 

 

 

It was a pretty "mid" draft.

 

 

We really need to hit it out of the park this offseason and hopefully have a draft class as good as the Ravens had a couple of years ago if we want to get where we want to get.

 

To be honest this might be the most important draft we've had since we drafted Joe. Maybe even more important because Joe was an easy consensus top pick.

[claptonrocks]

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

That is a pretty mixed (and imo fair) result.

 

Murphy, Yoshi, Battle, Brown, all went up.

 

Turner, Jones, and Robbns all went down.

 

Out of this class the only one I am looking for at minium competition if not to be outright replaced next year is Robbins. 

 

 

It was a pretty "mid" draft.

 

 

We really need to hit it out of the park this offseason and hopefully have a draft class as good as the Ravens had a couple of years ago if we want to get where we want to get.

 

To be honest this might be the most important draft we've had since we drafted Joe. Maybe even more important because Joe was an easy consensus top pick.

Battle was the 5th highest rookie safety in a decade.

All pro written on him soon imo.

[claptonrocks]

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

That is a pretty mixed (and imo fair) result.

 

Murphy, Yoshi, Battle, Brown, all went up.

 

Turner, Jones, and Robbns all went down.

 

Out of this class the only one I am looking for at minium competition if not to be outright replaced next year is Robbins. 

 

 

It was a pretty "mid" draft.

 

 

We really need to hit it out of the park this offseason and hopefully have a draft class as good as the Ravens had a couple of years ago if we want to get where we want to get.

 

To be honest this might be the most important draft we've had since we drafted Joe. Maybe even more important because Joe was an easy consensus top pick.

Agree..

This draft will determine where they're heading next year.

Have to hit big-time in at least first 4 rounds.

 

[Jamie_B]

1 minute ago, claptonrocks said:

Battle was the 5th highest rookie safety in a decade.

All pro written on him soon imo.

 

So far he was our best pick. I really hope Dax Hill turns it around next year, he showed glimpses but was not as good as I hoped he would be. If he can turn it around and be at least consistent in knowing where he is supposed to be and then be there the starters at S will be good for the next few years. If Turner can do the same, we are ok in the 2ndary for starters.

[claptonrocks]

7 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

So far he was our best pick. I really hope Dax Hill turns it around next year, he showed glimpses but was not as good as I hoped he would be. If he can turn it around and be at least consistent in knowing where he is supposed to be and then be there the starters at S will be good for the next few years. If Turner can do the same, we are ok in the 2ndary for starters.

Agree.

I'm hard on Hill but he and Battle were

learning to play together and it showed.

Better times ahead for this combo..