Early 53 Man Guess

[PatternMaster]

15 hours ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

Tackling and getting off blocks certainly has something to do with when you react and how quickly you react. Leverage, technique, footwork, momentum all matter. 

 

They moved on from a first round pick at FS

 

Sure but when you get there and you can't wrap up and make a tackle, you can't blame another player because they weren't in the correct pre-snap alignment. If a player has an opportunity to make a play and they don't, that's on that player, not his teammate. 

 

They didn't move on from him, they just said he's only going to play CB instead of playing CB and FS. You made it seem like he was cut and not on the team. 

[T-Dub]

For the sake of their argument let's accept for a moment that all the problems on defense were the result of starting inexperienced DBs..

 

..because they let the veterans walk.

 

In other words, this was a conscious decision by the Bengals FO.  The guys didn't just disappear in the night, forcing them to play whoever they could scare up.  They planned for this transition, deliberately chose to go a different direction with their DBs to save themselves some money, and it bit them in the ass.

 

Even if the excuse was 100% accurate it wouldn't be a very good one.

[sparky151]

Yeah, I wanted them to keep Bell and Hurst around as they signed with Carolina for very reasonable prices. Hudson effectively replaced Hurst but nobody replaced Bell. Now, this year we've brought Bell back to replace Scott, his intended replacement. Stone has come in to take over for Hill. But we don't have a good replacement for Awuzie. Maybe they think Hill or Newton will be able to do it but it's just wishcasting at this point. 

[MichaelWeston]

14 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

For the sake of their argument let's accept for a moment that all the problems on defense were the result of starting inexperienced DBs..

 

..because they let the veterans walk.

 

In other words, this was a conscious decision by the Bengals FO.  The guys didn't just disappear in the night, forcing them to play whoever they could scare up.  They planned for this transition, deliberately chose to go a different direction with their DBs to save themselves some money, and it bit them in the ass.

 

Even if the excuse was 100% accurate it wouldn't be a very good one.

 

It's clear that this is what happened and they admitted their mistake and signed Bell back and signed Stone. 

 

What makes this worse is that they did this with Whitworth as well. 

 

 

[T-Dub]

3 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

 

It's clear that this is what happened and they admitted their mistake and signed Bell back and signed Stone. 

 

What makes this worse is that they did this with Whitworth as well. 

 

 

 

 

Fear they may be trying to do the same thing with the DL. 

[sparky151]

Bengals haven't really drafted well the last few years. Of our 5 starting O-linemen and 4 starting D-linemen, we'll have 2 drafted players, Volson and Hubbard. They were 4th and 3rd round picks respectively. Mims should be a starter in 2025 if not sooner. And maybe Jenkins or Jackson wins a starting DT job over Hill or Rankins. 

 

But we've used a first round pick on Hill as the replacement for Bates but he's not even close. We've used 2nd rounders on CTB and Turner with unimpressive results. We've had a turnstyle in the TE room, perhaps ending with Sample and the rookies signed for more than a year. And an undistinguished RB group. Our elite QB has an elite WR, a very good WR2, and an expensive but average at best O-line. We had the most expensive D-line in the league last year without being close to dominant.

[sparky151]

2 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Fear they may be trying to do the same thing with the DL. 

 

I'm not too worried about the D-line, much more worried about the CB group and our general lack of a running game. 

[dex]

I'm glad that the Bengals brought back Vonn Bell on a bargain deal, but what has Jordan Battle done to lose the starter job that he earned late last season? Anarumo and the other coaches claim to love Battle. So does Pro Football Focus:

 

Battle was one of the highest-graded college safeties heading into the 2023 NFL Draft, and while he fell to the third round and didn’t get a starting job until Week 11 of his rookie season, all of those strong metrics remained. Battle earned top-10 marks at his position, both overall (82.5) and in run defense (81.3), while also adding a 76.4 PFF coverage grade (17th). He should be locked in as a full-time starter to kick off 2024 and continue his impressive play for the Bengals.

 

 

[|BlackJesus|]

24 minutes ago, dex said:

 what has Jordan Battle done to lose the starter job that he earned late last season?

 

^ Nothing. I think the plan was to start Battle and Stone (why they signed him). Then when Bell became available he was too good and cheap to pass up. But now they have 3 S who could start. I would like to see Bell in more of a mentor role for both than always starting. 

[dex]

3 hours ago, sparky151 said:

 

 

But we've used a first round pick on Hill as the replacement for Bates but he's not even close. We've used 2nd rounders on CTB and Turner with unimpressive results. 

Hill has been a massive disappointment so far, no question, but I think both Taylor-Britt have excellent potential. CTB's biggest problem has been health. He finished the 2022-23 playoff season in great shape, started off last season well, then got hurt and when he returned he wasn't even close to the same level of player.

 

People seem to forget how well Turner started off last season over his first 7 games. In 278 snaps he only allowed 9 catches in 20 targets. Those 9 catches only went for 92 yards. At a certain point though he hit the rookie wall, no doubt hampered by the fact that he had to take additional special teams snaps after Anderson and Ivey went down with ACL injuries. At the time he was taking starter snaps at CB, they should have found someone else to give all those special teams snaps too. Other starters, almost all of whom are bigger than Turner, didn't have to shoulder all of those extra ST burdens. That's what backups are for. It wasn't really fair to Turner, and it wasn't fair to the team either. That should never have been allowed to happen, and that's on the coaching staff.

 

 

 

 

[|BlackJesus|]

I think all 10 draft picks make the final 53. 

 

[dex]

If they don't all make the 53 man opening day roster, they should all make the all-important 69 man roster/practice squad. 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, dex said:

If they don't all make the 53 man opening day roster, they should all make the all-important 69 man roster/practice squad. 

 

Think they've got a couple of PUP candidates if they decide to go that route.  Complicating that is the strong possibility Mims is called on to start sooner than they'd prefer.

 

 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, BlackJesus said:

I think all 10 draft picks make the final 53. 

 

 

 

Wondering who will have the most playing time at the end of the season..  I'm guessing either Burton or one of the DT's

[Inigo Montoya]

2 hours ago, dex said:

Hill has been a massive disappointment so far, no question, but I think both Taylor-Britt have excellent potential. CTB's biggest problem has been health. He finished the 2022-23 playoff season in great shape, started off last season well, then got hurt and when he returned he wasn't even close to the same level of player.

 

People seem to forget how well Turner started off last season over his first 7 games. In 278 snaps he only allowed 9 catches in 20 targets. Those 9 catches only went for 92 yards. At a certain point though he hit the rookie wall, no doubt hampered by the fact that he had to take additional special teams snaps after Anderson and Ivey went down with ACL injuries. At the time he was taking starter snaps at CB, they should have found someone else to give all those special teams snaps too. Other starters, almost all of whom are bigger than Turner, didn't have to shoulder all of those extra ST burdens. That's what backups are for. It wasn't really fair to Turner, and it wasn't fair to the team either. That should never have been allowed to happen, and that's on the coaching staff.

 

 

Nov 2, 2023 — In 278 snaps this season, DJ Turner has allowed only nine catches on 20 targets. Those nine catches have gone for only 92 yards.

 

Agree with you on Turner.  He played well initially but fell off as his role increased.  Probably a case of a rookie hitting the wall combined with injuries forcing him to do too much before he could handle it.  
 

CTB will be our #1 CB as long as he can stay healthy.  As a rookie, he was injured early but was very solid down the stretch on the way to the AFC Championship replacing Chido.  Last season was more of the same up until the second BAL game when he got injured.  Maybe he’s due for better luck or maybe he’s just injury prone, but I am confident in him when available.  
 

Hill is looking like a wasted pick, at least as far as being a replacement for Bates at FS.  It’ll be interesting to see if he can carve out a role going forward.  He’s still a great athlete and I think he’s got potential as a blitzer playing closer to the line.  

[MichaelWeston]

4 hours ago, dex said:

If they don't all make the 53 man opening day roster, they should all make the all-important 69 man roster/practice squad. 

69

[PatternMaster]

6 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

I think all 10 draft picks make the final 53. 

 

6 maybe 7..no way all 10 make it

[MichaelWeston]

6 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

I think all 10 draft picks make the final 53. 

 

I agree. All 10 make it. 

[claptonrocks]

9 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

Fear they may be trying to do the same thing with the DL. 

How so with the he Dline?

Lost Reader but gained 3 extra linemen now.

I'm good with that.

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, claptonrocks said:

How so with the he Dline?

Lost Reader but gained 3 extra linemen now.

I'm good with that.

 

Reader was exceptional & with Hendrickson asking for a trade IDK if we can expect another 18 sack season out of him.  That's half the DL either gone or with one foot out the door over money.

[claptonrocks]

1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

 

Reader was exceptional & with Hendrickson asking for a trade IDK if we can expect another 18 sack season out of him.  That's half the DL either gone or with one foot out the door over money.

Murphy is waiting .

Interior looks better than last year..

Hendrickson playing for a contract 

 

Glass Allways half empty half full...

[gupps]

14 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

In other words, this was a conscious decision by the Bengals FO.  The guys didn't just disappear in the night, forcing them to play whoever they could scare up.  They planned for this transition, deliberately chose to go a different direction with their DBs to save themselves some money, and it bit them in the ass.

 

 

This happens to just about every NFL team because you can't pay everybody. The Bengals suffer more than other teams because they don't play cap games and their small scouting staff leaves them wanting for replacements sometimes. I expect Tee to be gone next year because of this, if they pay him AND Chase (plus Burrow) half the team will have to be JAGs just to be able to make payroll.

[Le Tigre]

So, basically, a continuous business model of 4 year college rentals with an occasional franchise tag and/or 5th year option? 
 

As the modern sport evolves through these tightened “windows”, I suppose it makes sense. So long as they have a centerpiece, the rest of what fills the uniforms can come and go. 

[MichaelWeston]

1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

So, basically, a continuous business model of 4 year college rentals with an occasional franchise tag and/or 5th year option? 
 

As the modern sport evolves through these tightened “windows”, I suppose it makes sense. So long as they have a centerpiece, the rest of what fills the uniforms can come and go. 

Unfortunately I think with the cap its essential. Without the cap we couldn't compete though

[sparky151]

19 hours ago, dex said:

Hill has been a massive disappointment so far, no question, but I think both Taylor-Britt have excellent potential. CTB's biggest problem has been health. He finished the 2022-23 playoff season in great shape, started off last season well, then got hurt and when he returned he wasn't even close to the same level of player.

 

People seem to forget how well Turner started off last season over his first 7 games. In 278 snaps he only allowed 9 catches in 20 targets. Those 9 catches only went for 92 yards. At a certain point though he hit the rookie wall, no doubt hampered by the fact that he had to take additional special teams snaps after Anderson and Ivey went down with ACL injuries. At the time he was taking starter snaps at CB, they should have found someone else to give all those special teams snaps too. Other starters, almost all of whom are bigger than Turner, didn't have to shoulder all of those extra ST burdens. That's what backups are for. It wasn't really fair to Turner, and it wasn't fair to the team either. That should never have been allowed to happen, and that's on the coaching staff.

 

 

 

 

 

But over the course of the full season, the Bengals CB rankings from PFF were 18th overall for Hilton, 60th for CTB, 72nd for Chido and 109th for Turner. 

 

Let's hope CTB and Turner improve but even if they each moved up 20 spots, they'd still be well below average for a CB1 and CB2. 

 

19 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

I think all 10 draft picks make the final 53. 

 

 

Mims, Jenkins, Burton, and Jackson are locks. Newton and 1 of the TEs are highly likely. But the last 3 picks are no sure things to make the 53. 

 

5 hours ago, gupps said:

This happens to just about every NFL team because you can't pay everybody. The Bengals suffer more than other teams because they don't play cap games and their small scouting staff leaves them wanting for replacements sometimes. I expect Tee to be gone next year because of this, if they pay him AND Chase (plus Burrow) half the team will have to be JAGs just to be able to make payroll.

 

Not playing cap games is a self-imposed disadvantage. There are times to go for it and 2024 should have been one of those years. Bengals are always in good cap health, which is nice but so is Philadelphia who hands out big contracts pretty freely and keeps the guys who live up to them while moving on from the underachievers.  A small scouting department isn't that big an issue. We probably won't find another future NFL MVP at Augustana but there's enough issue on the top thousand or so prospects to be able to bring in a dozen or more good football players each rookie class.