A Position Group Conversation: Defensive Line

[-GoBengals-]

a grout most certainly on track for the biggest shake up in the offseason, there are a lot of peices on the defensive line that ahve underperformed, or flat out been bad, plus a pile of injuries, aging players, etc.

 

Here is the breakdown.

 

1. BJ Hill

Age: 29, turns 30 in April

Contract: Current year $10.8 cap hit, UFA after 2024 season

 

Thoughts: I think this could very possibly be the end of BJ Hill in cincinnati. Unless he is interested in a 1 year or 2 years with a team option on that second year, deal thats less than his current one, I think he is gone. An injury riddle year heading into your 30's is about as bad of a negotiating position as you could be in with the Bengals front office historically. Hill has been average to above average in recent seasons, I would iamgine someone else would be willing to offer more than he is worth to the Bengals. We will see if he is willing to take a hefty discount to stay in Cincinnati, where he was given a chance to play and has his close friend germaine pratt  on the team.

 

2. Sheldon Rankins

Age: 30, turns 31 in April.

Contract: Current 11.9, Next year $12.5 mil cap hit. Can release in offseason for 2mil cap hit.

 

Thoughts: I expect Rankins to be the absolute first player released this offseason. He has played poorly, he is old, he is injured, and he is expensive. There is no bright spot in Rankins time in Cincinnati, and I dont see any benefit to him staying, and at $12.5 price tag, that money could be used elsewhere in no time.

 

3. McKinnley Jackson

Age: 23(in 2 weeks)

Contract: From 1-1.8mil Signed through 2026 season

 

Thoughts: Jackson is seemingly the replacement plan to the DJ Reader role. His rookie year was hampered early with an injury, He has shown some upside, but not enough to just assume he takes over a starting role at this stage, depending how the remaining 6 games go and the offseason progress that could change, but then youre looking at adding veteran depth, which is tough to find much value in on the DL. A young, cheap, draft capital investment that the team is counting on to paly a big role going forward.

 

4. Kris Jenkins Jr

Age: 23

Contract: $1.5-2.5mil Signed through end of 2027 season

 

Thoughts: KJJ Has shown some flashes of good play, Likely surpassing some of the paly of BJ Hill at times, but like Jackson, Jenkins had hs rookie season stunted by an early injury preventing him from taking the field early, Unlike jackson, I think Jenkins IS likely dog eared to take on a starting role on the inside, being #49 overall in the draft comes with expectations, and i think, if healthy, that expectation is to take over one of the inside spots on that defensive line.

 

5. Trey Hendrickson

Age: 29 (a week ago)

Contract: 20mil hit this season, 18 mil in 2025, free agent after 2025.

 

Thoughts: Trey is a top 5 talent on the entire roster, and the best player on the defense. Treys agent played the "my client wants a trade" game as they always do, but Trey quickly stepped over that line and spoke on his dedication to the team and winning.  Trey's agent will be at it again with Trey entering the final year of his deal, and the Bengals, short on talent and experience on the DL have to face their self imposed rules of not paying guys into their 30's, Trey turns 30 next season in his last season, do the bengals feel confident they can find the next Trey Hendrickson on the free agent market? in the draft? or for the price tag Trey will want to stay, perhaps in a younger player? Can they convince him to add one more year at a good price, or will Trey want to chase a long term deal elsewhere, as many teams have shown the willingness to pay players high dollars at the older age range, like the Bills, who gave Von Miller 6 years 120 million which has been a poor investment, and has him under contract until he is 38 years old. While there are cases for it going in the players favor, Like Andrew Whitworth, far too often do players never live up to big dollar long term deals into their 30's. Fans and coaches would love to keep Trey around past 2025, if he leaves he leaves huge shoes to fill.

 

6. Sam Hubbard

Age: 29, turns 30 in June.

Contract: 10mil this year, 11.5 mil next year, signed through end of 2025 season

 

Thoughts: Sam Hubbard playing through injury all season that he sustained in camp, has seemed slow and ineffective in most all games this season, Can the Bengals afford to gamble that he has strictly been injured or that he has also lost a step as he approaches 30? Can they afford to spend nearly 12 million for the same production that got from Hubbard this season? would Hubbard agree to a 1-2 year extension at a much lower dollar amount to retire a Bengals and lighten the financial load? It would be shocking for the bengals to cut Hubbard, being a local kid, a buckeye, and a fan favorite, Hubbard is the type of player to see finding a role in the front office or on the sideline after his playing days are over. The fact of the matter is, the Bengals need better production from their pass rushers and edge players, and Hubbard hasnt lived up to that in recent time, and hedging the defensive success on that fixing itself next year seems like a gamble.

 

 

7. Myles Murphy

Age: 22, turns 23 in a few weeks. 

Contract: 2.8mil this year up to 4mil signed through the 2026 season.

 

Thoughts: Murphy has been a HUGE disappointment, a first round pass rusher who hasnt even show much of a flash of talent and cant seem to beat out the struggling Hubbard or Ossai for more playing time. This is draft capital that hurts to waste, especially with the injuries in the secondary in 2024, they would have been greatly helped by a more effective pass rush. His full deal is guaranteed, so a 7 mil hit next year and 4 mil hit after 2025 if he is released. The Bengals dont have much choice but to hope he pans out, or is at minimum productive to some extend over the next two seasons. Seems to be a lesson learned, drafting guys with a knock of being lazy and uninspired to play football are a high risk of being mediocre at best, regardless of pay or talent.

 

8. Joseph Ossai

Age: 24, turns 25 this offseason.

Contract: 1.6mil, Free agent after the 2024 season.

 

Thoughts: Ossai has not lived up to the early hype, but as a third round pick being a productive rotational guy is a fair return on investment, I expect the team to tender him an extension offer thats affordable and team friendly, I dont see there being much competition on the market, he will certainly have options, but i dont think he would be tough to being back as an affordable rotation guy if he is interested in that.

 

The Others: Tufele, Cedric Johnson, Sample, 

 

Thoughts: nothing to hold onto with much intent here, Tufele is a decent rotation guy, Tufele a free agent, should be cheap to keep, but if he departs there shouldnt be much panic to reaplce his production, Johnson and Sample, the same,  there isnt nothing here to be concerns with if they come back or are gone. 

[KA14_HOF]

When a guy "falls" to us in the draft (e.g. Dax, Murphy), we're like a dog who's just seen a squirrel. We appear to have gotten away with it this year with Mims.

[-GoBengals-]

12 minutes ago, KA14_HOF said:

When a guy "falls" to us in the draft (e.g. Dax, Murphy), we're like a dog who's just seen a squirrel. We appear to have gotten away with it this year with Mims.

 

I think dax pans out as a long term productive corner/slot of some sort. but next year is probably not great. Murphy was a pick thats going to sting for a few years. 

 

there is always a reason a guy falls, youre right, sometimes its a fit or a run at another position, sometimes its legitimate. Dont forget Burton in the "guys who fell to us" category. What a mental case. I almost feel like the super important and famed ping pong tables, returned to benefit guys like Burton, rather they stick around paddling it out than sitting alone at a slot machine after the biggest goof of their life. 

[Whodeyman]

I would franchise tag Hendrickson if can't work out long term deal.  I think he has earned a new contract.  Get rid of rankins bj hill Hubbard.  They are all high salary players that are on decline.  Draft one of DT in first round from Michigan if Bengals have high draft pick.  Sign defensive end in free agency.  Keep everyone else on dline.

[UncleEarl]

This group needs a major overhaul.  I don't know enough about Hubbard's injury(ies) to say if he's worth hanging on to.  Are they chronic things that will always bother him, or just some fluke things? 

 

Needless to say this team needs a couple fresh DEs and DTs.  Can't get all that through the draft.  Going to have to open the wallet and choose wisely. 

[Jamie_B]

I see it like Go see it in his initial post. 

 

We need another DE and a 3Tech that can do what Rankins was supposed to do. 

 

As far as FA, the cupboard is pretty bare IMO, I think we will have to look to the draft for both positions. 

 

IMO this is a year where a CB1 could be gotten in FA, which is our other big need, but I just don't see much on the DLine in FA.

[KA14_HOF]

10 hours ago, GoBengals said:

Dont forget Burton in the "guys who fell to us" category.

 

Yup, forgot about him. That's another biggie. I don't recall if Carman "fell" too, but I want to include him as well just cuz anyone who knew how to use Google would've known to pass on him in any round.

[claptonrocks]

6 hours ago, Whodeyman said:

I would franchise tag Hendrickson if can't work out long term deal.  I think he has earned a new contract.  Get rid of rankins bj hill Hubbard.  They are all high salary players that are on decline.  Draft one of DT in first round from Michigan if Bengals have high draft pick.  Sign defensive end in free agency.  Keep everyone else on dline.

Id love to get Graham from Michigan.

So would alot of teams.

[I_C_Deadpeople]

1 hour ago, KA14_HOF said:

 

Yup, forgot about him. That's another biggie. I don't recall if Carman "fell" too, but I want to include him as well just cuz anyone who knew how to use Google would've known to pass on him in any round.

I believe we actually traded UP for Cartman which is worse then 'fell too"

[I_C_Deadpeople]

17 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

Id love to get Graham from Michigan.

So would alot of teams.

If he 'fell' that would be awesome. Graham plus McKinley and Jenkins could be interior beast mode (of cousre a few years later we would let 2 of them go as free agents lol)

[sparky151]

Bengals start with about 65 mil in cap space for 2025 plus anything we carry over from this season. That's with Chase on his 5th year option, under a new contract the number could be higher or lower.

 

If we cut Rankins and Hubbard, we'd have an additional 19.1 mil in cap space. Cappa and Stone could get us another 14.75 mil in space.

 

Tagging Tee again will take up 26 mil, which we'd regain if he's traded.

 

The point is that the team has plenty of money to spend and should be active in free agency. At the moment we'd have the 10th pick in the draft. That's probably too low to get Mason Graham or Abdul Carter. But we could get an edge player like Scourton or Pearce. Or a top CB. 

 

There's no reason for the Bengals to release any of the D-linemen on rookie contracts but it's hard to count on Murphy, Jenkins, or Jackson at this point. We could re-sign Hill, Sample, Tufele, or Ossai but they aren't very good and would just be fighting the youngsters for depth roster spots. So we'll need to pay up in free agency or perhaps trade up in the draft. Not things in the Bengals comfort zone but here we are.

 

 

[|BlackJesus|]

Murphy is total garbage. He shows no aggression at all and is very timid. One of the softest DL I have ever watched on film. I would cut my losses with him. 

[LostInDaJungle]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Bengals start with about 65 mil in cap space for 2025 plus anything we carry over from this season. That's with Chase on his 5th year option, under a new contract the number could be higher or lower.

JFC.

[T-Dub]

 

Hubbard should've been sent to IR weeks ago but now there's really no excuse.  The sooner he gets stitched up the better chance he has of being ready for camp.  Even if he's considering retirement he's not helping the team much right now.

 

Rankins was a waste of money, 'nuff said.

 

Don't see much point in cutting Murphy too since it's not like they need roster space and he's not costing them much.  Play him in place of the injured Hubbard and see if he toughens up.

[-GoBengals-]

On 12/1/2024 at 5:31 AM, Whodeyman said:

I would franchise tag Hendrickson if can't work out long term deal.  I think he has earned a new contract.  Get rid of rankins bj hill Hubbard.  They are all high salary players that are on decline.  Draft one of DT in first round from Michigan if Bengals have high draft pick.  Sign defensive end in free agency.  Keep everyone else on dline.

 

the tag for DE is bout 21 mil, which is about what he is getting paid cap hit wise next year, so that tag would come after next year, he gets 20mil this year and 18.666 mil next year.. a tag the following year would be fine if he still is playing at a high level.

 

On 12/1/2024 at 8:44 AM, UncleEarl said:

This group needs a major overhaul.  I don't know enough about Hubbard's injury(ies) to say if he's worth hanging on to.  Are they chronic things that will always bother him, or just some fluke things? 

 

Needless to say this team needs a couple fresh DEs and DTs.  Can't get all that through the draft.  Going to have to open the wallet and choose wisely. 

 

Hubbard is the toughest decision in this whole group. but at a low dollar as a run down only guy after this year would be fine by me.

 

they have opened the wallet and have chosen wisely before. theyve also opened the wallet and not chosen wisely before. 

 

On 12/1/2024 at 9:26 AM, Jamie_B said:

I see it like Go see it in his initial post. 

 

We need another DE and a 3Tech that can do what Rankins was supposed to do. 

 

As far as FA, the cupboard is pretty bare IMO, I think we will have to look to the draft for both positions. 

 

IMO this is a year where a CB1 could be gotten in FA, which is our other big need, but I just don't see much on the DLine in FA.

 

can they find another Chidobe Awuzie? 

 

On 12/1/2024 at 10:34 AM, KA14_HOF said:

 

Yup, forgot about him. That's another biggie. I don't recall if Carman "fell" too, but I want to include him as well just cuz anyone who knew how to use Google would've known to pass on him in any round.

 

he was a solid tackle at a big program we wanted to slide to Guard, on paper that should have been a flawless transition and success. 

 

On 12/1/2024 at 11:33 AM, claptonrocks said:

Id love to get Graham from Michigan.

So would alot of teams.

 

im getting tired of rooting for michigan players. 

 

On 12/1/2024 at 11:51 AM, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I believe we actually traded UP for Cartman which is worse then 'fell too"

 

opposite, we traded down, for whatever thats worth.

 

21 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Bengals start with about 65 mil in cap space for 2025 plus anything we carry over from this season. That's with Chase on his 5th year option, under a new contract the number could be higher or lower.

 

If we cut Rankins and Hubbard, we'd have an additional 19.1 mil in cap space. Cappa and Stone could get us another 14.75 mil in space.

 

Tagging Tee again will take up 26 mil, which we'd regain if he's traded.

 

The point is that the team has plenty of money to spend and should be active in free agency. At the moment we'd have the 10th pick in the draft. That's probably too low to get Mason Graham or Abdul Carter. But we could get an edge player like Scourton or Pearce. Or a top CB. 

 

There's no reason for the Bengals to release any of the D-linemen on rookie contracts but it's hard to count on Murphy, Jenkins, or Jackson at this point. We could re-sign Hill, Sample, Tufele, or Ossai but they aren't very good and would just be fighting the youngsters for depth roster spots. So we'll need to pay up in free agency or perhaps trade up in the draft. Not things in the Bengals comfort zone but here we are.

 

 

 

I could see Jenkins taking one starting spot in the DT group. even if so you now need his rotation reps covered. so no matter what 2 important DT role need filled. unless they bring back BJ for cheap. which i wouldnt hate but id love to upgrade that spot instead.

 

cutting cappa would be a giant mistake. he didnt play well, but linemen are tough to find, id be willing to bet he is capable of returning to "solid+" production, he is sitting there between trent brown who was worthless and a rookie, and then karras who was in constant position of helping Volson, going off the "the oline is a unit" ideology, fix LG and you may not have to worry about RG, IMO. if they feel he is just aged and bad, walking away from that cash is the smarter plan of course.

 

20 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

Murphy is total garbage. He shows no aggression at all and is very timid. One of the softest DL I have ever watched on film. I would cut my losses with him. 

 

he isnt good. and id imagine you have not watched any film. ever. no personal offense intended.

 

20 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

JFC.

 

i dont know what this is JFCing thinking thats a lot to spend or a little? its kind of not a lot. the number is so big due to a few 10-ish mil deals expiring,and tee's tag number 20+ off the books,  with the cap increase and logical cutting guys (stone, Rankins, etc) we could easily be sitting at over 100 mil to spend. if we take 30 on the chin for a Chase extension, grab a #1 corner, a starting DT, and if they tagged tee again, we suddenly have about 20 mil to spend. rookie deals will take 10, so that would be all of it with room for a mid level guy and a IR buffer.

 

shit goes fast. if tee is just gone, you got 20+ mil back to spend and if they DONT take a lump of a chase deal on this year, that changes things as well. the cap is so damn flexible.

 

19 hours ago, T-Dub said:

 

Hubbard should've been sent to IR weeks ago but now there's really no excuse.  The sooner he gets stitched up the better chance he has of being ready for camp.  Even if he's considering retirement he's not helping the team much right now.

 

Rankins was a waste of money, 'nuff said.

 

Don't see much point in cutting Murphy too since it's not like they need roster space and he's not costing them much.  Play him in place of the injured Hubbard and see if he toughens up.

 

Hubbard is so so tough, be great if he could ride ito the sunset on a good note, but this year was bad. he was solid last year. so im 50/50 if i think he can come back and be productive. but 20-25 snaps a game and healthy i think he can be a valuable player still .

[Jamie_B]

1 minute ago, GoBengals said:

can they find another Chidobe Awuzie? 

 

This is what you are looking at.

 

2025 NFL Free Agents

 

If they want a guy that is a bit older but still under 30 as a bridge player who would instantly fill the CB1 role and is one of the better CBs in the league, I think I like DJ Reed who would be 29 next season. 

 

If they want a guy who will be better than what they currently have but sounds like he is on the outs in LA (Chargers), but at least imo could become a CB1, I like Samuel Jr.

[LostInDaJungle]

7 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

i dont know what this is JFCing thinking thats a lot to spend or a little?

We're two years removed from a super bowl, at the tail end of a window of affordability with three generational talents, and we have that much cap space left. We have "bargain" free agents. I was reacting to the stench of complacency that works it's way down from the higher ups.

We are holding a royal flush, and we keep making $2 bets. Please don't make me break out the "Fiscally responsible" fight song again. They don't give out a trophy for going 6-11 with solid cap management. Penny wise, pound foolish.

[-GoBengals-]

13 minutes ago, Jamie_B said:

 

This is what you are looking at.

 

2025 NFL Free Agents

 

If they want a guy that is a bit older but still under 30 as a bridge player who would instantly fill the CB1 role and is one of the better CBs in the league, I think I like DJ Reed who would be 29 next season. 

 

If they want a guy who will be better than what they currently have but sounds like he is on the outs in LA (Chargers), but at least imo could become a CB1, I like Samuel Jr.

 

ah thanks for the link, man i dont know enough of these guys to make a want list, with so many specific intricacies in coverage schemes, one teams trash is another teams start player at the CB spot..

 

id probably cross out anyone over 27.0 on that list though. as the bengals will want a 2-3 year deal and that shit aint happening with the 27+ crowd. IMO

[T-Dub]

16 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

 

 

Hubbard is so so tough, be great if he could ride ito the sunset on a good note, but this year was bad. he was solid last year. so im 50/50 if i think he can come back and be productive. but 20-25 snaps a game and healthy i think he can be a valuable player still .

 

I'm a fan, dude's typically relentless.  He's just not very effective playing hurt (who is) and can't see much point now in putting off the inevitable surgery any longer.  Why delay his rehab by another month unless he's not planning on coming back at all.

[-GoBengals-]

3 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

We're two years removed from a super bowl, at the tail end of a window of affordability with three generational talents, and we have that much cap space left. We have "bargain" free agents. I was reacting to the stench of complacency that works it's way down from the higher ups.

We are holding a royal flush, and we keep making $2 bets. Please don't make me break out the "Fiscally responsible" fight song again. They don't give out a trophy for going 6-11 with solid cap management. Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

i think youre confusing whats going on here. this year we have 6 mil in cap space, and that 6 mil doesnt include any late signings or IR dollars, etc. we spent the entire cap essentially. Also for an example with HORRIBLE contracts in previous seasons still hurting them, the Panthers have the least cap space spending the most this season..  

 

The bengals have a bunch of deals, Tee $20+ mil, BJ $10+ Mil, Hilton $8Mil, etc. that fall off from this year to next. which is why that number is what it is, those players need to be re-uped or replaced so once all said and done, we will end up back in the same range next season.

 

The team has shown absolute GRAND SLAM free agent periods and the most recent one was a complete DUD with no one panning out. both are flukes, id expect a 50/50 like most teams free agencies go.

 

Reader, Hill, Bell's first stint, Oganjobi, Awuzie, Hilton, god damn what a fucking successful batch of dudes. then Stone, Bell second stint, Rankins, Geisecke(was fine), fucking shit show.