Toeaina

[TigerJ@w]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='611253' date='Dec 18 2007, 06:44 PM']Why didn`t you just say the "underachieving" Lovie Smith ?
They`re out of the playoffs too, and have the same record
as us.

Anyway, I`m sure you know the reason why they picked
up Toeiana is because they were decimated at the position he plays.
And needed bodies that weren`t street free agents.



You act like Toeiana was a fucking Rookie of the Year
candidate or something . . .[/quote]

NO! A HC with a brain who knows we are out of the playoffs would realize to bring his draft picks on board to allow them to play and have some FkN VISION for once in his life while being here! and plus, not allow other teams to pick them off the practice squad. The same thing in losing Shaun Smith last year, dumb move. I could go on and on, but continue to blow ML for as long as you wish!

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='TigerJ@w' post='611244' date='Dec 18 2007, 06:24 PM']according to Whom? The Genius D Guru ML or the HC that has went to a SB in Lovie Smith?[/quote]


seems to me that Marvin has more super bowl rings tna Lovie.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='TigerJ@w' post='611260' date='Dec 18 2007, 05:59 PM']NO! A HC with a brain who knows we are out of the playoffs would realize to bring his draft picks on board to allow them to play and have some FkN VISION for once in his life while being here! and plus, not allow other teams to pick them off the practice squad. The same thing in losing Shaun Smith last year, dumb move. I could go on and on, but continue to blow ML for as long as you wish![/quote]

Oh Geez. This isn`t the fucking Reds.
You don`t play minor leaguers.

And not paying Shaun Smith $2million a season was not a stupid move.
The Browns have the 32nd ranked Defense (dead last) and are
ranked 28th against the run. They are worse than the Bengals
in both catergories.

Michael Myers is making $1.3 million less than Smith this season,
has 15 less tackles, 1 less sack than Smith and one more INT,
which was a game clincher, while starting 7 less games.

And KMA with that blow Marvin bullshit.

[bubba]

[quote]Oh Geez. This isn`t the fucking Reds.
You don`t play minor leaguers.[/quote]

Just to clarify, do you think Thorton or Robinson, even Myers are good ? The future ? or should be playing most of the snaps ? Do you think we make the playoffs next year with Thorton, Myers, or Robinson getting the majority of snaps ?

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='bengalmonsta' post='611061' date='Dec 18 2007, 10:15 AM']Does NOBODY what's goin on here?
Do you think he wouldve been blowin people up if he was on the bengals dee?
Nope, its the [b]scheme[/b] and playcalling...think about it, what defensive scheme would you rather run chuck b's or chicago's?
He wouldve been lookin like just another scrub...you mean to tell me we have NO playmakers talent wise on this dee?
Just think about if a few of our players defected and went to chicago in THAT scheme...I guarentee you they'd look like playmkers then![/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly. Two problems on the defense this year, first we lost SO MANY LB's. Sure, other teams lost players and had injuries, but when they all are concentrated in one area it absolutely kills you.(see ST Louis o-line). Second, Bres scheme is horrid. It is too complex, especially when you have a lot of new players in the system. It's just too much to try to learn, you get too many people in the wrong places. I would love to see us run an attacking defense, that makes an offense have to worry about you, instead of a double read defense, where you try to read the offense and adapt to what they are doing. Healthy, the defense has talent, but look at last week, just having one experienced guy missing(jeanty) and replacing him with a youg inexperienced guy(mays) and they looked like the beginning if the season's D, instead of the last 4 weeks D.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bubba' post='611281' date='Dec 18 2007, 06:46 PM']Just to clarify, do you think Thorton or Robinson, even Myers are good ? The future ? or should be playing most of the snaps ? Do you think we make the playoffs next year with Thorton, Myers, or Robinson getting the majority of snaps ?[/quote]

That`s a loaded question there bubba.
Obviously I don`t think any of them are Pro Bowl material.
But Myers has been a decent pick up.
Thornton is overpaid.

Thornton and Myers are signed through next season, Robinson is a UFA after this season.
And I can see Thornton and Myers coming back next season.

Of course they should get most of the snaps over a practice squad player,
that had all of the OTAs, Training Camp, Pres-season games, and 14
weeks on the pratice squad to impress coaches enough to call him up
to the 53 man roster.

Let`s not forget, the Bengals also have Fanene and Rucker who can play DT on the roster.
I know Rucker hasn`t seen much playing time, but when activated, he can play 2 positions,
just like Robinson and Fanene.

The Bengals made the playoffs with Thornton, Robinson, Askew and Shaun Smith.
So yes I think they could make the Playoffs with Thornton, Myers, Robinson and Peko.
Although I doubt Robinson will be back.

Look, I`m not happy that the Bengals lost Toeaina either.
I think he had a lot of potential, but he was raw. That`s why he was able to clear
waivers to be put on the practice squad. And was on the practice squad for 14
weeks before a team that was decimated at the postion he plays, chose to pick
him off our practice squad, rather than sign street Free Agents.



Anyway, do you think the Bengals should be playing minor leaguers ?
You think they should just cut vets and bring up all their practice squad players ?

[claptonrocks]

If the Bengals draft Sedric Ellis then the whole unit looks better.
Ellis and Peko with Myers and either Thornton or BRob playing a role....

[oldschooler]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='611294' date='Dec 18 2007, 07:31 PM']If the Bengals draft Sedric Ellis then the whole unit looks better.
Ellis and Peko with Myers and either Thornton or BRob playing a role....[/quote]


I agree.

I think the Bengals will at least draft a DT in the 2nd round.
And he will be a lot more ready to play from day one than
a 6th round, raw, practice sqad player that everyone seems
to be up in arms over losing.

I think they almost have to draft D-linemen in the 1st 2 rounds,
unless someone no one ever thought would be there falls to
them . . .

[bubba]

[quote]Anyway, do you think the Bengals should be playing minor leaguers ?
You think they should just cut vets and bring up all their practice squad players ?[/quote]

I'm obviously no expert, but yes, I've watched Thorton & B Rob prove they can do very little. So yes give the kids a shot, along with White over Dexter & Dede over Rudi. I like Peko, & Fanene has looked good.

[quote]I think the Bengals will at least draft a DT in the 2nd round.
And he will be a lot more ready to play from day one than
a 6th round, raw, practice sqad player that everyone seems
to be up in arms over losing.[/quote]


Big Toe showed some promise, thats why everyone is up in arms. Our season is over and we need help at tackle, he at times looked good last night. Thats why people are upset, we feel Marvin & company made a mistake. B Rob was an undrafted free agent, at least big toe was drafted.

We can keep Nate Lawrie on the squad but not bring up big toe ? It just doesn't add up, like not giving Dede more touches.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bubba' post='611298' date='Dec 18 2007, 08:07 PM']I'm obviously no expert, but yes, I've watched Thorton & B Rob prove they can do very little. So yes give the kids a shot, along with White over Dexter & Dede over Rudi. I like Peko, & Fanene has looked good.[/quote]

They have had their moments. Ecspecially Thornton.
I disagree with starting Rookies just to be starting them though,
regardless if we`re out of the playoffs or not. The team has plenty
of time to evaluate players in practice, and the way the study
the playbook and film, without trying to do it like the MLB does.
And I disagree with bringing Practice Squad players up at a position
where there is a lot of depth (whether you think that depth is
good or not).

As far as DeDe over Rudi, I`m not against DeDe getting more
touches, but I`m not on the "Rudi is garbage" bandwagon either.




[quote]Big Toe showed some promise, thats why everyone is up in arms. Our season is over and we need help at tackle, he at times looked good last night. Thats why people are upset, we feel Marvin & company made a mistake. B Rob was an undrafted free agent, at least big toe was drafted.[/quote]

Big Toe showed promise in pre-season against a bunch of scrubs.
I watched the game last night, and yes he made a good play.
But all that did was make the Vikings have a longer TD run
2 plays later. And Big Toe`s play came late in the game,
against an O-line that definitely wasn`t playing like they
had the entire season.

[quote]We can keep Nate Lawrie on the squad but not bring up big toe ? It just doesn't add up, like not giving Dede more touches.[/quote]

Two different positions, plus Lawrie is a 3rd year player that started 3 games this season,
and played special teams.

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='bubba' post='611298' date='Dec 18 2007, 09:07 PM']I'm obviously no expert, but yes, I've watched Thorton & B Rob prove they can do very little. So yes give the kids a shot, along with White over Dexter & Dede over Rudi. I like Peko, & Fanene has looked good.




Big Toe showed some promise, thats why everyone is up in arms. Our season is over and we need help at tackle, he at times looked good last night. Thats why people are upset, we feel Marvin & company made a mistake. B Rob was an undrafted free agent, at least big toe was drafted.

We can keep Nate Lawrie on the squad but not bring up big toe ? It just doesn't add up, like not giving Dede more touches.[/quote]

Then why do you suppose Lewis let him go to the Bears?.. Do you think Lewis thought "you know what, we need help at tackle but Im going to let Toe go to the Bears because it just doesnt make sense"

None of us know what he was like in practice everyday, how his conditioning was and if was but an emergency player in case some of the DT's got hurt.

Thats why the Bears picked him up.. Hell he's been there all year why now? Cuz they are decimated at the tackle position and he's a Filler.. He'll be cut after the season and may just wind up on the Bengal PS again.....

Not every DT drafted in the sixth round is a potential starter.. some are what they are.. emergency backups

[bubba]

[quote]Two different positions, plus Lawrie is a 3rd year player that started 3 games this season,[/quote]

When was this ? I missed Lawrie starting.

[quote]I watched the game last night, and yes he made a good play.[/quote]

He stopped Peterson twice behind the line bulling over a former all pro center. Plus he was flying around the ball several times. He didn't play the entire game. Yes I also saw the plays were he was handled.

[bubba]

[quote]Then why do you suppose Lewis let him go to the Bears.. Do you think Lewis thought "you know what, we need help at tackle but Im going to let Toe go to the Bears because it just doesnt make sense"


None of us know what he was like in practice everyday, how his conditioning was and if was but an emergency player in case some of the DT's got hurt.
Thats why the Bears picked him up.. Hell he's been there all year why now? Cuz they are decimated at the tackle position and he's a Filler.. He'll be cut after the season and may just wind up on the Bengal PS again.....[/quote]


I see Rudi sucking ass while the scub backs (Watson and Dorsey) playing far better yet Rudi gets the carries. So I think maybe Marvin & company aren't making the correct decisions. I think Marvin fucked up, you don't, we'll leave it at that. Practice and games are two different animals.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bubba' post='611308' date='Dec 18 2007, 08:31 PM']When was this ? I missed Lawrie starting.[/quote]

Oppps. I meant he has played in 3 games and got 2 starts.
Games 9 and 12 when the Bengals opened in two-TE sets.



[quote]He stopped Peterson twice behind the line bulling over a former all pro center. Plus he was flying around the ball several times. He didn't play the entire game. Yes I also saw the plays were he was handled.[/quote]

He had flashes yes. And like I already said, I wish the Bengals
would have been able to keep him. Hopefully they can get
him back. But I`ve not gotten pissed, upset or lost any
sleep over it. If the players that are starting on the
D-line are so awful, then he should have been
able to beat them out without breaking a sweat.
He didn`t though.

[claptonrocks]

[quote name='bubba' post='611311' date='Dec 18 2007, 09:35 PM']I see Rudi sucking ass while the scub backs (Watson and Dorsey) playing far better yet Rudi gets the carries. So I think maybe Marvin & company aren't making the correct decisions. I think Marvin fucked up, you don't, we'll leave it at that. Practice and games are two different animals.[/quote]
ok we'll just leave it at that..

Say Bubba .. how many ways you know how to cook shrimp???

[bubba]

[quote]Say Bubba .. how many ways you know how to cook shrimp???[/quote]

[bengaled]

my main concern is this...we've had years where we drafted much better than this year. our 2nd round pick wasn't the guy lewis really wanted, he had any of the 3 LB's that got selected right before irons targeted and later admitted his disappointment. we had no 3rd round pick. our 4th round pick barely saw the field. the 5th rounder was used on a developmental project, one who also never played a down. we admittedly had some success with the 7th rounder, ndukewe, who overperformed. that said it was all in all a very weak draft and one that screams you protect all your picks, especially a 6th round DT that had shown a degree of promise. this considering we have 2 aging DT's on this roster that we will likely (read SHOULD) unload this offseason.

sorry, i can't agree with not protecting this pick when we knew we could do so.

[TigerJ@w]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='611271' date='Dec 18 2007, 07:26 PM']Oh Geez. This isn`t the fucking Reds.
You don`t play minor leaguers.

And not paying Shaun Smith $2million a season was not a stupid move.
The Browns have the 32nd ranked Defense (dead last) and are
ranked 28th against the run. They are worse than the Bengals
in both catergories.

Michael Myers is making $1.3 million less than Smith this season,
has 15 less tackles, 1 less sack than Smith and one more INT,
which was a game clincher, while starting 7 less games.

And KMA with that blow Marvin bullshit.[/quote]

Uh, why not bring them up to play? There are many players that should be cut now and will be cut after the season is over so why not do it now? Oh, you forgot, NO VISION! I would have liked for Smith to have replaced Thornton and cut his sorry arse and then we save money! How much better is Thornton to Smith? That should be your comparison here and not Myers. LOL

I remember last year when Smith came into the game and Thornton was on the bench our defense stopped the run for once, but ML thought otherwise and the rest is history. We let him go and kept an overpaid useless DT!

You want to keep Thornton around for another almost $5M? You have to be kidding me! I know you said you can see them coming back so you either think ML is just stupid or you agree with ML.

[bengalbutch]

Maybe a disgruntled employee, but interesting quote from former Bengal Shaun Smith.

[quote]On playing an average of 42 snaps a game in Cleveland after not getting 20 per game in Cincinnati last season: "They didn't give me a fair chance. They don't give the young guys a chance. Prime example. Look at Sam Adams. He'd always miss practice. I was always intact except for the three games I was inactive.[/quote]

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='claptonrocks' post='611036' date='Dec 18 2007, 09:07 AM']Let me pose this question to all of you that think the Bengals dropped the ball with Toeiana..

Why do you suppose they let him walk....please give an intelligent answer and not just "cuz theyre stupid"[/quote]


his salary plus whoever we released would take more of a cap hit into next year. he cost a lot moe that what he would be paid, and we are already over this years cap and hurting next years,

[Homer_Rice]

One less Samoan means we are that much farther away from the Bengals Haka...

[oldschooler]

[quote][b]Where did No. 75, defensive tackle Matt Toeaina, come from? He was one of the few guys who stood out Monday night in Minnesota? —Dan K., Marshall, Mich.[/b]

The Bears poached Toeaina off the Bengals' practice-squad last week and inserted him into action five days after signing. Then Toeaina put his signature on his first Bears game with two tackles for losses on Viking running back Adrian Peterson. As ChicagoBears.com pointed out, it was a play Toeaina made for the University of Oregon chasing down Peterson in a game against Oklahoma that impressed the Bengals. Cincinnati drafted the 6-foot-2, 311-pounder in the sixth round. "On film, I watched him run step-for-step with Adrian Peterson and make a tackle on a cutback for a negative yardage play," Bengals line coach Jay Hayes told the web site. "For a guy 300-plus pounds to do that to a Heisman candidate speaks well of him." Toeaina's first impression spoke well enough of his potential to expect him to be in the mix for a roster spot next summer, especially if the Bears find veteran Darwin Walker too expensive to keep.[/quote]


[url="http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthewriter/cs-071220askdavidhaugh,1,3824313.story?coll=cs-home-headlines"]http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines[/url]


Obviously Toeiana only has good games against Peterson . . .

[|Lucid|]

I think people ned to remember that this isn't baseball.. There is no "expanded roster" at the end of the season. In my opinion it would make sense for the NFL to adopt some sort of similar set up. Create some sort of salary cap exemption for salaries around league minimun (PS players etc), and expand the active roster to accomodate clubs moving players into the active roster in order to get snaps. As it is, the clubs hands are tied as far as evaluating PS talent at the end of the year.

Hoe many NFL teams have you ever seen cutting vets during the season to bring up PS players? It just doesn't happen, and it's not just the Bengals.

[LudwigVan Kubrick]

[quote name='bengalbutch' post='611209' date='Dec 18 2007, 05:18 PM']I don't see how anyone can argue that Toe should have been brought up & given a chance. Especially considering our lousy season & how poorly our D tackles are. If he sucks, cut him. If he's decent play him.[/quote]

That would be the "Bengals made the decision so clearly it was the correct decision" portion of this forum.

Slightly to the left of the "we didn't need him anyway" portion of this forum.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='LudwigVan Kubrick' post='612219' date='Dec 21 2007, 11:53 AM']That would be the "Bengals made the decision so clearly it was the correct decision" portion of this forum.

Slightly to the left of the "we didn't need him anyway" portion of this forum.[/quote]

and far right of the "the Bengals can do no right" portion of the forum.