USN Bengal Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687839' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:15 PM']No its not ok for me...its ok for HIM because that was HIS 3rd superbowl and had already proven his worth. Anyone of you that claims you have 100% confidence in him the next time hes attempting a game-winner against Pitt is full of shit...except maybe the girl...you probably do have 100% confidence.[/quote] Anyone who claims 100% confidence in ANY kicker is full of shit... period. That being said, having confidence in Graham as a kicker is a PROVEN good bet. You also can't argue the stats... they're not only real, they are beyond subjective things like... PERSONAL FEELINGS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Lucid' post='687842' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:20 PM']Way to duck the question... I asked what if it was his only one. And I don't see you saying the winning kicks shayne has made is an excuse for the ones he missed... Please be consistant Also, since you already stated the kicker you want doesn't exist, you have pretty much destroyed your entire argunment.[/quote] BUT ITS NOT HIS ONLY ONE SO PLEASE ASK ME ABOUT A KICKER WHO DID MISS HIS ONLY CHANCE AND I'LL ANSWER YOU. Is Tom Brady now not clutch becuase he couldn't move his team into FG position against the Giants? No, he's proven to be clutch so its irrelevant. My "arguement" is my opinion that I don't trust Graham to make a clutch kick. And my opinion that he will disappoint this year (while still kicking 85%) and be playing for someone else. Listen I hope I'm wrong, but I'm just putting into writing what I feel. Its that same gut feeling you all get when you see our Jumbo package lining up against the Ravens trying to pick up first down by punching it up the middle...you know we're not getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalSIS Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 You got me Squirrlnutz, I do have confidence. Do i have 100%...does anyone? I know what he is capable of, and I know how hard he has worked. More than anyone I know. So yes, I probably have more confidence than anyone...except Shayne. But I've also been watching the NFL and tracking kickers religiously since 1999, so unless you want to bring an argument that you will lose to the table, I wouldn't continue this one. Now..that said, you did say this was your opinion. And you are entitled to it. With some things, you MAY even prove to be right. But most of your argument has revolved around using examples of other kickers that have had as many "oopsies" or more than Shayne. I'm only continuing this thread because I'm bored and I don't want to work, and there hasn't been much to talk about regarding the kicking game (the part I know about) this offseason (because there isn't anything to complain about). Thanks for providing me a little distraction from the crap I'm currently working on at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalSIS Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687846' date='Aug 15 2008, 02:32 PM']BUT ITS NOT HIS ONLY ONE SO PLEASE ASK ME ABOUT A KICKER WHO DID MISS HIS ONLY CHANCE AND I'LL ANSWER YOU. Is Tom Brady now not clutch becuase he couldn't move his team into FG position against the Giants? No, he's proven to be clutch so its irrelevant. My "arguement" is my opinion that I don't trust Graham to make a clutch kick. And my opinion that he will disappoint this year (while still kicking 85%) and be playing for someone else. Listen I hope I'm wrong, but I'm just putting into writing what I feel. Its that same gut feeling you all get when you see our Jumbo package lining up against the Ravens trying to pick up first down by punching it up the middle...you know we're not getting it.[/quote] you still aren't being consistent. Shayne is 3-4 in realistic game winning kicks for the Bengals...so why doesn't he get a little credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='687844' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:25 PM']I seem to remember Stover missing down at PBS just last year... didn't he??? Or, what about mister clutch Vinatieri going 50% last year at San Diego and Indy losing by 2 pts. One of those kicks was from less than 30 yards... And, I don't mean to disparage Vinatieri because I like him. But, you have got to absolutely be out of your mind... Josh Brown missed two field goals a couple years back against the Cowboys, I believe, that cost them the playoffs. That was the year that Romo fumbled the snap the next week and the Cowboys lost. That'll do for now. Don't throw up examples of "clutch" kickers that have all had their own issues.[/quote] Examples of what? I listed guys I would A. want to take a kick in the conditions I explained in the first post and B. take on our team over Graham. I didnt' say these guys were immune to missed FGs. These are guys who have a long history of helping their team when they need it most. Seem to have struck a nerve here people. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='BengalSIS' post='687848' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:38 PM']you still aren't being consistent. Shayne is 3-4 in realistic game winning kicks for the Bengals...so why doesn't he get a little credit?[/quote] Because he's 0-1 on the most important kick of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalSIS Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687849' date='Aug 15 2008, 02:39 PM']Examples of what? I listed guys I would A. want to take a kick in the conditions I explained in the first post and B. take on our team over Graham. I didnt' say these guys were immune to missed FGs. These are guys who have a long history of helping their team when they need it most. Seem to have struck a nerve here people. :devil:[/quote] You make no sense....and continue to give me a distraction from work (again, thanks) The kickers you mentioned have had the same "problems" you are complaining about with Shayne. Shayne has also had a history of success, and you don't want him because of one missed game winner. Sure, you mention the other kicks against division rivals, but they were not "clutch", or you have to call his other non winning makes against division rivals clutch. And you haven't struck a nerve. We like to play on the short bus occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalSIS Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687850' date='Aug 15 2008, 02:41 PM']Because he's 0-1 on the most important kick of his life.[/quote] HA!!! See, now THAT's funny. Any of the other game winners he kicked in 05 goes awry, and they might not have made the playoffs...why aren't they as important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687849' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:39 PM']Examples of what? I listed guys I would A. want to take a kick in the conditions I explained in the first post and B. take on our team over Graham. I didnt' say these guys were immune to missed FGs. These are guys who have a long history of helping their team when they need it most. Seem to have struck a nerve here people. :devil:[/quote] You listed 4 kickers that you would take over Shayne because they were supposed "more clutch" than Shayne... and you view them as automatic. I was just providing you with examples regarding each of these kickers where they missed kicks that affected the game. In the case of Vinatieri and Brown - those were both situations with less than like 2 minutes on the clock in the game and guess what, they missed. Those are 2 examples of your "clutch" kickers??? Can you pass some of the shit you're smoking??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalSIS Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687850' date='Aug 15 2008, 02:41 PM']Because he's 0-1 on the most important kick of his life.[/quote] Btw...don't forget to watch that video when you get home....I think to a senior football player in one of his last games of his college career, kicking to keep his team in the national championship game...might be a "kick of his life" kind of kick. NOT a kick to keep a floundering team in the playoffs where our season was not taking us to the superbowl anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687849' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:39 PM']Examples of what? I listed guys I would A. want to take a kick in the conditions I explained in the first post and B. take on our team over Graham. I didnt' say these guys were immune to missed FGs. These are guys who have a long history of helping their team when they need it most. Seem to have struck a nerve here people. :devil:[/quote] Nerves tend to get struck when people say absurdly silly things. Be as prejudiced as you want.. But don't try to pretend you are being objective when you aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 If it weren't for him in 2005, we don't make the playoffs... 'nuff said. [url="http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=28"]http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=28[/url] [quote][b]2005[/b] Made FGs of 32 and 23 yards in season-opening win Sept. 11 at Cleveland, and had two special teams tackles ... Made FGs of 40, 29 and 30 yards on Sept. 18 vs. Minnesota ... Had three FGs on Oct. 2 vs. Houston, on four attempts ... [b]Had his first miss of season in Houston game, wide-right from 42 yards in third quarter with game tied 10-10, but hit from 27 and 46 yards in final period to provide final margin of victory[/b] ... Made both his field goal attempts Oct. 9 at Jacksonville, hitting in third quarter from 31 and 48 yards ...Went 2-for-3 on FGs on Oct. 23 vs. Pittsburgh, hitting from 26 and 39 yards after an uncharacteristic 30-yard miss in the first quarter ... Went 3-for-3 on PATs on Nov. 6 at Baltimore, extending his Bengals mark to a perfect 105-for-105, breaking Doug Pelfrey's team record of 103 ... Made FGs of 43, 41, and 44 yards Nov. 20 vs. Indianapolis, and his three attempts put him over the 75 minimum to qualify as the team's all-time FG percentage leader ... Connected on FGs of 26 and 31 yards Nov. 27 vs. Baltimore, and also had four PATs and a special teams tackle ... [b]Made only FG attempt in crucial win Dec. 4 at Pittsburgh, a 30-yarder that gave the Bengals a 24-17 lead in the third quarter[/b] ... [b]Went 3-for-3 on FGs Dec. 11 vs. Cleveland, including game winner from 37 yards to break a 20-20 tie as time expired [/b]... 2-for-2 on FGs in division-clinching win Dec. 18 at Detroit, connecting from 28 and 33 yards ... Made season-long 49-yard field goal in first quarter Jan. 1 at Kansas City, setting team record with his 14th consecutive successful attempt ... Made his only FG try, 23-yarder in first quarter, for first score of game in Wild Card playoff 1-8-06 vs. Pittsburgh ... In preseason, his play was sharply limited due to groin strain; had only one FG attempt (good from 25).[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullichicken25 Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' post='687849' date='Aug 15 2008, 02:39 PM']Examples of what? I listed guys I would A. want to take a kick in the conditions I explained in the first post and B. take on our team over Graham. I didnt' say these guys were immune to missed FGs. These are guys who have a long history of helping their team when they need it most. Seem to have struck a nerve here people. :devil:[/quote] (hey guys, been reading for a while but this is my first post) this guy might actually have a point looking back to 04, graham does kick consistantly worse against AFC north teams... 2007: AFC N - 88% all others - 94% 2006 AFC N - 72% all others - 89% 2005 AFC N - 83% all others - 90% 2004 AFC N - 83% all others - 89% take what you want from those stats but it does seem to show that he isn't competely talking out of his ass although i'm sure he's just some tool from new jersey who thinks he knows everything...haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalSIS Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='mullichicken25' post='687858' date='Aug 15 2008, 02:58 PM'](hey guys, been reading for a while but this is my first post) this guy might actually have a point looking back to 04, graham does kick consistantly worse against AFC north teams... 2007: AFC N - 88% all others - 94% 2006 AFC N - 72% all others - 89% 2005 AFC N - 83% all others - 90% 2004 AFC N - 83% all others - 89% take what you want from those stats but it does seem to show that he isn't competely talking out of his ass although i'm sure he's just some tool from new jersey who thinks he knows everything...haha[/quote] You can also look at other correlating factors such as weather, etc since other teams have domes, and warmer climates. The AFC north...flat out sucks in the winter. But I don't think Shayne has any magic button in his head that feels more pressure against those teams. there are a lot of things at play. And just to add....those % against AFC N...are still better or rank right up there with other players total %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CougarQuest Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 I hesistate to say this, cuz I don't want to jinx him...but Personally, I think we're damn lucky to have Shayne Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullichicken25 Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='BengalSIS' post='687860' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:03 PM']You can also look at other correlating factors such as [b]weather[/b], etc since other teams have [b]domes, and warmer climates[/b]. The AFC north...flat out sucks in the winter. But I don't think Shayne has any magic button in his head that feels more pressure against those teams. there are a lot of things at play. And just to add....those % against AFC N...are still better or rank right up there with other players total %.[/quote] i'm bored at work but not THAT bored haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol_Bengal Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='BengalSIS' post='687852' date='Aug 15 2008, 03:44 PM']You make no sense....and continue to give me a distraction from work (again, thanks) The kickers you mentioned have had the same "problems" you are complaining about with Shayne. Shayne has also had a history of success, and you don't want him because of one missed game winner. Sure, you mention the other kicks against division rivals, but they were not "clutch", or you have to call his other non winning makes against division rivals clutch. And you haven't struck a nerve. We like to play on the short bus occasionally.[/quote] I've got it... After seeing this video in another forum topic, I know who Squirrlnutz is... he's the one with the red helmet on... his real name is Charlie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 Ok somebody knows me. Kevin? Well you guys have done well to show that Graham is better than I give him credit for..and its obvious all of you will rest much more comfortably when he's kicking with the game on the line...but I won't, and we'll still be stuck with a kicker who doesn't kick his best against our best opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 [quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='687866' date='Aug 15 2008, 04:09 PM']I've got it... After seeing this video in another forum topic, I know who Squirrlnutz is... he's the one with the red helmet on... his real name is Charlie...[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 I cant believe someone doesnt think Shayne will be here next year, do you not remember what we had before he was here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USN Bengal Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 Besides... his name isn't Squirrelnutz... it's probably something like Ludwig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalSIS Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 [quote name='USN Bengal' post='687928' date='Aug 15 2008, 06:10 PM']Besides... his name isn't Squirrelnutz... it's probably something like Ludwig. [/quote] I think he's posting under the nickname his girlfriend gave him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 That kick vs. Cleveland in 05 was amazing. Winds were probably gusting around 15-20 MPH and the ball had to be a rock because it was colder then anything and it was right down the middle. The man is a great kicker and kicking is one hell of a thing to master. It's certainly not as easy as most on here would think. Too be as good as Shayne is at it is awesome and were lucky to have a kicker that good. I hope he an extension goes his way soon. He deservres it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 I'd be willing to bet that Graham (and any other kicker for that matter) considers each and every kick to be an important kick. Not sure how one can parse out which kicks are game-changers and which are not during the course of any game. It's not like a field goal attempt in the first quarter allows a kicker to approach it [i]sans souci[/i]. By the standard implied here, shouldn't we also be wondering why the vaunted Bengals offense doesn't score a touchdown with each and every drive? Which, of course, is ridiculous. The Bengals have had some pretty good kickers over the years and who doubts that Graham is not the best of the bunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted August 16, 2008 Report Share Posted August 16, 2008 I don't know...I'm old enough to have seen guys by the name of Muhlmann and Breech kick for this team. I was as confident in them, as I am with Shayne...always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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