Bengals Coaching Staff Likely to Remain in Place

[VonBlade]

All three of those mid-thread articles are a +1.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='736897' date='Dec 31 2008, 09:55 PM']So it was Reggie Kelly that missed the block?

I thought it was Chris Perry. Oh well, cut them both.


Oh and Dan, your "pimping" of Bratkowski is completely uncalled for.
The dude did less with more than Zimmer did. Brat had a shitty year
of coaching. So he had a few top 10 Offenses with some great talent.
Look what he did when he actually had to coach some players up.
DEAD LAST. He sucked this year. Seriously.[/quote]



What's sad is some people actually follow that type of flawed logic.

Were any of those "great talents" there before he got there ... or acquired via FA? Nope. That's what gets me when people say shit like that.

[quote name='VonBlade' post='736950' date='Jan 1 2009, 10:51 AM']All three of those mid-thread articles are [s]a +1[/s] weak attempts at journalism by small-market writers who could never cut it at a real paper or in a real market.[/quote]

fify

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_FL' post='736958' date='Jan 1 2009, 09:40 AM']

What's sad is some people actually follow that type of flawed logic.

Were any of those "great talents" there before he got there ... or acquired via FA? Nope. That's what gets me when people say shit like that.[/quote]

Dan, it is you that has the flawed logic.
And I think it is pathetic that you have have the audacity to laugh.

OK, so Bratkowski is to be given credit for the great talent.
So why the hell wouldn`t he be faulted for not coaching up
the not so great talent he acquired? His main job is to coach the Offense.
Yet, for some reason, you want to give him a pass for doing a shitty job.
Or why shouldn`t he be bashed for cutting some starters and making
some people that obviously weren`t in the same league, starters?


Seriously. If you want to stroke him off for being a great SCOUT.
Then great. Do that. But you are "pimping" him for being a great
Offensive Coach, and he was FAR from that this season.

So let`s make Brat a scout and find a real OC that can coach this
team to win without some of their best talent. Zimmer made Brat
look like a fucking amateur. With Brat being here for so long,
you would think that Carson could have went down, and the Offense
would have AT LEAST finished middle of the pack. But no.
DEAD FUCKING LAST. There is NO EXCUSE for that. As shitty
as our Defense has been in the past, they NEVER finished DEAD FUCKING LAST.
Look at what the Patriots OC did with Cassel. You think he was so much more
talented/prepared than Fitz? You think he had so much more talent to work
with than Bratkowski did?


So laugh it up. It just makes you look like a clueless moron acting like
others have flawed logic for seeing that Bratkowski did a HORRIBLE JOB
AT COACHING, and not a so great job at having GOOD talent to backup
the GREAT TALENT.


Seriously. Look at who is bashing Bratkowski right now. It is me, Mr. Triestofindsomethingpostiveabouteverything.
The motherfucker sucked this year. There is no defending that.

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='736962' date='Jan 1 2009, 12:17 PM']Dan, it is you that has the flawed logic.
And I think it is pathetic that you have have the audacity to laugh.

OK, so Bratkowski is to be given credit for the great talent.
So why the hell wouldn`t he be [b]faulted for not coaching up[/b]
the not so great talent he acquired? His main job is to coach the Offense.
Yet, for some reason, you want to give him a pass for doing a shitty job.
Or why shouldn`t he be bashed for cutting some starters and making
some people that obviously weren`t in the same league, starters?


Seriously. If you want to stroke him off for being a great SCOUT.
Then great. Do that. But you are "pimping" him for being a great
Offensive Coach, and he was FAR from that this season.

So let`s make Brat a scout and find a real OC that can coach this
team to win without some of their best talent. Zimmer made Brat
look like a fucking amateur. With Brat being here for so long,
you would think that Carson could have went down, and the Offense
would have AT LEAST finished middle of the pack. But no.
DEAD FUCKING LAST. There is NO EXCUSE for that. As shitty
as our Defense has been in the past, they NEVER finished DEAD FUCKING LAST.
Look at what the Patriots OC did with Cassel. You think he was so much more
talented/prepared than Fitz? You think he had so much more talent to work
with than Bratkowski did?


So laugh it up. It just makes you look like a clueless moron acting like
others have flawed logic for seeing that Bratkowski did a HORRIBLE JOB
AT COACHING, and not a so great job at having GOOD talent to backup
the GREAT TALENT.[/quote]

First off, I laughed because I thought your post was joke. And judging by the other replies in this thread, I wasn't the only one. So maybe the onus is on you to do a better job making your posts clear. And by the way, since you want to resort to name-calling, you look like the clueless moron in this situation (I'll leave it at that since I generally like you and what you bring to the table) ... first off his job is not a coach, it's an OC, his first job is to call plays, develop schemes and because he works for the Bengals, find talent. He has position coaches to you know, do most of the coaching, just like Zimmer does.

Secondly, along with Cassell did the Patriots have Randy Moss break his shoulder and become useless for just about the entire season? Have to cut their top back, because he just gave up (and were stuck with him in the first place for years just because their replacements had unfortunate injuries)? Have to cut-ties with a RT, who maybe he wanted to let go earlier, but an owner wanted to keep, and could have still had some gas, if he would have still had any fire left? Did they have Wes Welker not show up for camp to get timing down, because he wanted a new contract, resulting not only in your starting QB not having timing down with him, but absoultly your backup because any time he was around they had to play catchup mode with Carson? Did his LT's knee fall apart at the end of preseason? Did the Patriots OC request a new center, not get it and forced to be stuck with a guy who isn't cutting it? Did his only semi-major FA acquisition he was allowed to have get hurt in the second game? By the end of the season, did he lose 3/5 of his O-line? Didn't think so. Quit comparing shit that isn't comparable. You have no clue what's going on behind the scenes and your only insight is provided by a bunch of two-bit writers, who don't even work hard at their job.

You're a stat guy. Every other season he's had his starting QB, he's put up a top 10 offense. Ever stop to think that this season is the anomaly?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='736962' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:17 AM']Dan, it is you that has the flawed logic.
And I think it is pathetic that you have have the audacity to laugh.

OK, so Bratkowski is to be given credit for the great talent.
So why the hell wouldn`t he be faulted for not coaching up
the not so great talent he acquired? His main job is to coach the Offense.
Yet, for some reason, you want to give him a pass for doing a shitty job.
Or why shouldn`t he be bashed for cutting some starters and making
some people that obviously weren`t in the same league, starters?


Seriously. If you want to stroke him off for being a great SCOUT.
Then great. Do that. But you are "pimping" him for being a great
Offensive Coach, and he was FAR from that this season.

So let`s make Brat a scout and find a real OC that can coach this
team to win without some of their best talent. Zimmer made Brat
look like a fucking amateur. With Brat being here for so long,
you would think that Carson could have went down, and the Offense
would have AT LEAST finished middle of the pack. But no.
DEAD FUCKING LAST. There is NO EXCUSE for that. As shitty
as our Defense has been in the past, they NEVER finished DEAD FUCKING LAST.
Look at what the Patriots OC did with Cassel. You think he was so much more
talented/prepared than Fitz? You think he had so much more talent to work
with than Bratkowski did?


So laugh it up. It just makes you look like a clueless moron acting like
others have flawed logic for seeing that Bratkowski did a HORRIBLE JOB
AT COACHING, and not a so great job at having GOOD talent to backup
the GREAT TALENT.


Seriously. Look at who is bashing Bratkowski right now. It is me, Mr. Triestofindsomethingpostiveabouteverything.
The motherfucker sucked this year. There is no defending that.[/quote]


its too bad you dont actually know what people jobs are.

bob is an offensive coordinator. not a coach, he doesnt coach players. thats the position coaches job.

how is our situation even remotely near the patriots? if our offense was 18-0 or 19-0 and in the superbowl breaking records for scoring and had the injuries we would have finished a little better too. but the scenarios arent even close.

shouldnt the qb coach be coaching fitz? shouldnt the rb coach be coaching perry and benson?

shouldnt the wr coaches be coaching the wr's? shouldnt the oline coach be coaching the oline?

how is that all brats fault? he didnt hire any of them...

brat scouts talent like each other coach would, even position coaches, but he designs plays and series of plays according to the players, those are then practices for MONTHS to work, not only did we lose have the book due to carson, then chads useless, tj is slow starting, we have no running back, and the line does NOTHING..

please enlighten me as to how thats bratkowskis involvement in any way?

ill entertain ANY idea at this point, afterall i had a mod of my own try to use the teams 1 winning season as somehow being brats fault (OOASOLOLOLOLOLAHAHAHAHAHA oh heavens!)


the patriots going from brady to cassell was a 5 more losses change

the bengals going from palmer to FITZ (pats went from great to big school qb)

and had 3 more losses.. 2.5 technically. 7-9 to 4-11-1

so i guess brat actually did a BETTER job than the patriots did at adjusting to his "talent"?

im more than happy for people to bitch about whats wrong.. but bitching about things that dont in any form of reality, actually make sense, is kind of a waste of everyones time.



furthermore, think about missing JUST carson.. forget other factors

you have to remove all quick -out timing paterns when palmer is required to put the ball in a specific spot so its not picked off, etc. all those are gone with fitz in the backfeild. the deep ball.. our bread n butter for half a decade... GONE.. fitz didnt connect one all year.. not ONE.. palmer was good for 1-2 a GAME.. it opened the run and the short pass... GONE..

what percent of the playbook you think that is? 30? ok, so you lose a third...

now go ahead and factor fumble nuts and the oline and the top 2 WR issues.....

not to mention the defense ranked DEAD LAST most of the year..

when they woke up we did win some games eh?

what OC you think makes fitz a viable qb scoring td's with minimal run game if any at all...

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_FL' post='736964' date='Jan 1 2009, 10:33 AM']First off, I laughed because I thought your post was joke. And judging by the other replies in this thread, I wasn't the only one. So maybe the onus is on you to do a better job making your posts clear. And by the way, since you want to resort to name-calling, you look like the clueless moron in this situation (I'll leave it at that since I generally like you and what you bring to the table) ... first off his job is not a coach, it's an OC, he's first job is to call plays, develop schemes and because he works for the Bengals, find talent. He has position coaches to you know, do most of the coaching, just like Zimmer does.[/quote]


I think Own thought my post was a joke because I don`t bash on this team much.

As far as name calling, I said you look like one, if you want to ignore the shitty
job he did. You say his job isn`t to coach, it is to call plays, develop schemes,
OK, still DEAD FUCKING LAST. That is HIS doing. It is HIS Offense. It is his job
to make sure that things are being done. Zimmer got in people's face. He willed
that side of the ball to improve. Brat watched his Offense stink it up. And just become
abysmal, pathetic, not good, shitty and down right atrocious.

[quote]Secondly, along with Cassell did the Patriots have Randy Moss break his shoulder and become useless for just about the entire season? Have to cut their top back, because he just gave up (and were stuck with him in the first place for years just because their replacements had unfortunate injuries)? Have to cut-ties with a RT, who maybe he wanted to let go earlier, but an owner wanted to keep, and could have still had some gas, if he would have still had any fire left? Did they have Wes Welker not show up for camp to get timing down, because he wanted a new contract, resulting not only in your starting QB not having timing down with him, but absoultly your backup because any time he was around they had to play catchup mode with Carson? Did his LT's knee fall apart at the end of preseason? Did the Patriots OC request a new center, not get it and forced to be stuck with a guy who isn't cutting it? Did his only semi-major FA acquisition he was allowed to have get hurt in the second game? By the end of the season, did he lose 3/5 of his O-line? Didn't think so. Quit comparing shit that isn't comparable. You have no clue what's going on behind the scenes and your only insight is provided by a bunch of two-bit writers, who don't even work hard at their job.[/quote]

They lost their top RB. They lost what many consider to be the best QB in the NFL.
They replaced him with a guy that hadn`t started a game since High School. And
he looked as good if not better some games, than their All Pro QB did.

And I know a lot of players on the Offense were hurt and banged up.
But the same could be said for the Defense. Yet, they IMPROVED.
While also installing a new Defense this year. Not 8 years ago.

[quote]You're a stat guy. Every other season he's had his starting QB, he's put up a top 10 offense. Ever stop to think that this season is the anomaly?[/quote]

So Carson makes Brat what he is? And Brat is the worst OC in the NFL without him?
That's not a rining endorsement. I know that Brat had a top Offense with Kitna too.
But I really don`t care what he did years ago. This year, HE dropped the ball. He sucked.
He shouldn`t be praised, pimped or anything but bashed for the job he did this season.
And that goes for all the Offensive coaches. They all sucked this season.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='736967' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:47 AM']I think Own thought my post was a joke because I don`t bash on this team much.

As far as name calling, I said you look like one, if you want to ignore the shitty
job he did. You say his job isn`t to coach, it is to call plays, develop schemes,
OK, still DEAD FUCKING LAST. That is HIS doing. It is HIS Offense. It is his job
to make sure that things are being done. Zimmer got in people's face. He willed
that side of the ball to improve. Brat watched his Offense stink it up. And just become
abysmal, pathetic, not good, shitty and down right atrocious.



They lost their top RB. They lost what many consider to be the best QB in the NFL.
They replaced him with a guy that hadn`t started a game since High School. And
he looked as good if not better some games, than their All Pro QB did.

And I know a lot of players on the Offense were hurt and banged up.
But the same could be said for the Defense. Yet, they IMPROVED.
While also installing a new Defense this year. Not 8 years ago.



So Carson makes Brat what he is? And Brat is the worst OC in the NFL without him?
That's not a rining endorsement. I know that Brat had a top Offense with Kitna too.
But I really don`t care what he did years ago. This year, HE dropped the ball. He sucked.
He shouldn`t be praised, pimped or anything but bashed for the job he did this season.
And that goes for all the Offensive coaches. They all sucked this season.[/quote]


he isnt the worst OC...he had the worst stats. and not just without palmer

without:
palmer
chad healthy or useful
tj missing all camp and preseason
perry getting fumbleitis and no other RB
no real fullback on the team
40% of the oline not being hurt or IR'd
playing the top 2 defenses in the entire nfl 4 times this year along with the hardest schedule in the nfl.
and a rotation of healthy receivers. chatman did a good job before getting injured, henry came on once he got time back and then time with fitz late in the year..tj had a good year once he got into games a few weeks. its not madden with 600 plays available. you cant lose a buncha players and just do a new playbook for next week, shit takes WEEKS to get down. they arent palying high school teams out there..


how is that even remotely the same as the undefeated 4-5 SB championships/appearences in last 6 year patriots situation at ALL?

even in the same ballpark?

not even remotely close.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='736966' date='Jan 1 2009, 10:47 AM']its too bad you dont actually know what people jobs are.

bob is an offensive coordinator. not a coach, he doesnt coach players. thats the position coaches job.[/quote]


So why should Brat be praised when the Offense does good?
It was the position coaches that did it all.


[quote]how is our situation even remotely near the patriots? if our offense was 18-0 or 19-0 and in the superbowl breaking records for scoring and had the injuries we would have finished a little better too. but the scenarios arent even close.[/quote]


Our Offense is supposed to be the strength of our team.
It is supposed to win games. It has the highest paid players.
It has all of the Pro Bowl caliber players.

So because our Offense didn`t set records, I shouldn`t expect them
to still be the strenght of our team?

[quote]shouldnt the qb coach be coaching fitz? shouldnt the rb coach be coaching perry and benson?

shouldnt the wr coaches be coaching the wr's? shouldnt the oline coach be coaching the oline?

how is that all brats fault? he didnt hire any of them...[/quote]



B-b-but Bratkowski acquired all of those players.
And Bratkowski is OC, which means it is his job
to make sure everything is being done to HIS satisfaction.

Seriously, you all want to praise him for the Offense being great.
But act like nothing is his fault when it goes bad.

You can't have it both ways.


[quote]brat scouts talent like each other coach would, even position coaches, but he designs plays and series of plays according to the players, those are then practices for MONTHS to work, not only did we lose have the book due to carson, then chads useless, tj is slow starting, we have no running back, and the line does NOTHING..

please enlighten me as to how thats bratkowskis involvement in any way?[/quote]

It is his job.

Please enlighten me how it was Bres's fault the Defense sucked then.


[quote]ill entertain ANY idea at this point, afterall i had a mod of my own try to use the teams 1 winning season as somehow being brats fault (OOASOLOLOLOLOLAHAHAHAHAHA oh heavens!)


the patriots going from brady to cassell was a 5 more losses change[/quote]

And 11 wins. I know I have used the Patriots to defend Mike Brown and Marvin.
But c'mon. Brat did a horrible job. Seriously, DEAD LAST. It doesn`t get any worse.
The Browns used 4 QBs. The Lions used 3 QBs. And one of them was retired. Still,
they were better than Brat's "vaunted" Offense.

[quote]the bengals going from palmer to FITZ (pats went from great to big school qb)

and had 3 more losses.. 2.5 technically. 7-9 to 4-11-1

so i guess brat actually did a BETTER job than the patriots did at adjusting to his "talent"?

im more than happy for people to bitch about whats wrong.. but bitching about things that dont in any form of reality, actually make sense, is kind of a waste of everyones time.



furthermore, think about missing JUST carson.. forget other factors

you have to remove all quick -out timing paterns when palmer is required to put the ball in a specific spot so its not picked off, etc. all those are gone with fitz in the backfeild. the deep ball.. our bread n butter for half a decade... GONE.. fitz didnt connect one all year.. not ONE.. palmer was good for 1-2 a GAME.. it opened the run and the short pass... GONE..

what percent of the playbook you think that is? 30? ok, so you lose a third...

now go ahead and factor fumble nuts and the oline and the top 2 WR issues.....

not to mention the defense ranked DEAD LAST most of the year..

when they woke up we did win some games eh?

what OC you think makes fitz a viable qb scoring td's with minimal run game if any at all...[/quote]


I'll say it again. You both want to praise him for the good, and act like it is
everyone else's fault for the bad. You want to praise him for acquiring some great talent,
but act like it is everyone else's fault for the crappy talent behind them. You want to act
like other OC's did just as bad, when you can`t get any worse than the DEAD LAST finish
the Bengals had. The Bengals Offense was over rated last season too. They had a few games
were they scored a lot of points, and it skewed the hell out the majority of the low scoring
games they had. They were NOT a top Offens last season. They were incosistent.

Anyway, there is no way around, there is no way to defend it. Bratkowski sucked this year.
I am not saying he should be fired. But my God, let`s not act like he did some amazing job
either. He sucked.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='736967' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:47 AM']I think Own thought my post was a joke because I don`t bash on this team much.

As far as name calling, I said you look like one, if you want to ignore the shitty
job he did. You say his job isn`t to coach, it is to call plays, develop schemes,
OK, still DEAD FUCKING LAST. That is HIS doing. It is HIS Offense. It is his job
to make sure that things are being done. Zimmer got in people's face. He willed
that side of the ball to improve. Brat watched his Offense stink it up. And just become
abysmal, pathetic, not good, shitty and down right atrocious.



They lost their top RB. They lost what many consider to be the best QB in the NFL.
They replaced him with a guy that hadn`t started a game since High School. And
he looked as good if not better some games, than their All Pro QB did.

And I know a lot of players on the Offense were hurt and banged up.
But the same could be said for the Defense. Yet, they IMPROVED.
While also installing a new Defense this year. Not 8 years ago.



So Carson makes Brat what he is? And Brat is the worst OC in the NFL without him?
That's not a rining endorsement. I know that Brat had a top Offense with Kitna too.
But I really don`t care what he did years ago. This year, HE dropped the ball. He sucked.
He shouldn`t be praised, pimped or anything but bashed for the job he did this season.
And that goes for all the Offensive coaches. They all sucked this season.[/quote]


so every coiach who loses all his palyers sucks ass?

how clever.

its not april 1st so i assume your serious..

[Sigfox09]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='736967' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:47 AM']I think Own thought my post was a joke because I don`t bash on this team much.

As far as name calling, I said you look like one, if you want to ignore the shitty
job he did. You say his job isn`t to coach, it is to call plays, develop schemes,
OK, still DEAD FUCKING LAST. That is HIS doing. It is HIS Offense. It is his job
to make sure that things are being done. Zimmer got in people's face. He willed
that side of the ball to improve. Brat watched his Offense stink it up. And just become
abysmal, pathetic, not good, shitty and down right atrocious.



They lost their top RB. They lost what many consider to be the best QB in the NFL.
They replaced him with a guy that hadn`t started a game since High School. And
he looked as good if not better some games, than their All Pro QB did.

And I know a lot of players on the Offense were hurt and banged up.
But the same could be said for the Defense. Yet, they IMPROVED.
While also installing a new Defense this year. Not 8 years ago.



So Carson makes Brat what he is? And Brat is the worst OC in the NFL without him?
That's not a rining endorsement. I know that Brat had a top Offense with Kitna too.
But I really don`t care what he did years ago. This year, HE dropped the ball. He sucked.
He shouldn`t be praised, pimped or anything but bashed for the job he did this season.
And that goes for all the Offensive coaches. They all sucked this season.[/quote]


Dead on! Also why did it take to week 17 to find a way to utilize Caldwell?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Sigfox09' post='736973' date='Jan 1 2009, 12:04 PM']Dead on! Also why did it take to week 17 to find a way to utilize Caldwell?[/quote]



you mean aside from being injured half the season?


yea your right, the playbook and offense he learned all offseason involving palmer was just for practice anyway, shoulda been dead on and up to speed with fitz without problem.. NO learning curve for a rookie to the league a backup qb and a make shift line..

i guess old IS dead on when facts arent important...

[oldschooler]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='736972' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:03 AM']so every coiach who loses all his palyers sucks ass?

how clever.

its not april 1st so i assume your serious..[/quote]

I am serious. I can`t believe that you don`t think he sucked either.


I'll say it one more time.
Zimmer, who was just hired, did more with less that Brat did.
With Brat being here so long, you would think the Offense would
at the worst been something like 20th in yards and scoring.
But no, they were dead last. And were close to setting all time
records for shittiness.

Any coach should be able to do great things with great players.
But it it takes a really great coach to do good things with bad players.

Brat did a horrible job. Dead last. Players he helped acquire.
Coaches that he is the boss over, to make sure they are doing
things to his satisfaction.


Crappy players = part of his job
Coaches not coaching up crappy players = also part of his job
34% of their drives being 3 and out = his job
Setting records for having to punt more than any other team = result of Brat's shitty job
Dead last in points and yards with players he acquired = not a good job

[-Dan_Bengals_FL-]

Well it's clear you have no clue what his job is, so I guess there is no point continuing this conversation.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

wordup old

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='736979' date='Jan 1 2009, 12:14 PM']I am serious. I can`t believe that you don`t think he sucked either.


I'll say it one more time.
Zimmer, who was just hired, did more with less that Brat did.
With Brat being here so long, you would think the Offense would
at the worst been something like 20th in yards and scoring.
But no, they were dead last. And were close to setting all time
records for shittiness.

Any coach should be able to do great things with great players.
But it it takes a really great coach to do good things with bad players.

Brat did a horrible job. Dead last. Players he helped acquire.
Coaches that he is the boss over, to make sure they are doing
things to his satisfaction.


Crappy players = part of his job
Coaches not coaching up crappy players = also part of his job
34% of their drives being 3 and out = his job
Setting records for having to punt more than any other team = result of Brat's shitty job
Dead last in points and yards with players he acquired = not a good job[/quote]

he is no ones boss.

we may just wanna leave it with you not understanding his duties.

and crappy players and no players are different.. crappy players: reggie kelly, eric g, watson, holt, etc... no players: (whoever RT was), fitz, etc..

he had NO players..

and he made it work with any semblance of good or decent talent he had... benson, tj, henry, etc..



name me an OC with shit palyers like that who had success.....any....ever... even a DECENT o-line would have netted more wins...

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Dan_Bengals_FL' post='736980' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:18 AM']Well it's clear you have no clue what his job is, so I guess there is no point continuing this conversation.[/quote]


*sigh*


#farts#

*giggle*


Whatever Dan. Like I said, look at who it is bashing.
Remember me?


I only said that Brat did a horrible job this season.
I would think being ranked dead last, and it not even being close,
in points scored and yards, would be a great indicator. You want
to act like I have no clue what his job is, and make everyone believe
his is only responsible for any good he does. None of the bad.
Great, good luck making anyone other than Go believe that. Seriously.

And you're right. There is no sense in continuing this conversation.

Brat = nothing but great
Everyone else but Brat = all the bad

[oldschooler]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='736982' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:21 AM']he is no ones boss.

we may just wanna leave it with you not understanding his duties.

and crappy players and no players are different.. crappy players: reggie kelly, eric g, watson, holt, etc... no players: (whoever RT was), fitz, etc..

he had NO players..

and he made it work with any semblance of good or decent talent he had... benson, tj, henry, etc..



name me an OC with shit palyers like that who had success.....any....ever... even a DECENT o-line would have netted more wins...[/quote]


Dan says Brat is to be praised for bringing in great players. And scoffs at people that
minimize Brat doing that for this team. You say he had no players.

The Offensive Coordinators job at the high school, college and professional level
is to keep his team's offense performing cohesively. It helps to have players that
are better than your opponents, but when an Offensive Coordinator doesn`t have
that luxury, it is still his job to make sure the Offense moves the ball, and scores points. Period.

It is Brat's job to make the Offense move the ball and put points on the board. Regardless of what
players he has at his disposal. It is his job to help evaluate and acquire talent. Not just the talent
that is good or great. If the player isn`t good or great, that is Brat's fault. If the Offense doesn`t
move the ball and score points, that is Brat's fault.

He did a shitty job this season. I don`t want him to be fired. But, he did a shitty job this season. Period.

[|BengalsFREAK|]

As far as I can tell, Go and Dan are the last two people left on this site that are still drinking the Brat koolaid. Even though Brat is being retained, he didn't exactly get a ringing endorsement from Marvin (none of the offensive coaches did) at the end of the year.

Sometimes Go (and occasionally Dan), I swear you go against the grain on here purely to stir the pot and keep people interested.

[Inigo Montoya]

All I know is that the facts say the Bengals offense finished worst in the NFL in points and yards. We finished behind everybody else, including the Browns, Raiders, Chiefs, Rams, and even the Lions. Unlike Zimmer, who got it done with street free agents at DE and S for large parts of the season, Brat never was able to get any amount of consistency from the offense. That's his job and he failed to do anything with the hand he was dealt.

[VonBlade]

Either Dan and Go are related to Brat, are Brat themselves or Brat is bankrolling the site. There is no other reason at all for their continued defense of someone that is obviously, proveable with facts, not doing well.

Unless they are complete idiots and I know that's not the case.

And can you stick to one answer as to what Brat does and why he's good and we, and all the stats and beat writers and pretty much everyone but you two, are all wrong.

Because Zimmer proved that with a bunch of much less talented players with so many injuries that most of them were off the street last week, guys can get it done with the right scheme and adapting to them. How exactly did Brat fail utterly at that and yet is given a free pass?

[bubba]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='736995' date='Jan 1 2009, 01:38 PM'][b]Either Dan and Go are related to Brat, are Brat themselves or Brat is bankrolling the site[/b]. There is no other reason at all for their continued defense of someone that is obviously, proveable with facts, not doing well.

Unless they are complete idiots and I know that's not the case.

And can you stick to one answer as to what Brat does and why he's good and we, and all the stats and beat writers and pretty much everyone but you two, are all wrong.

Because Zimmer proved that with a bunch of much less talented players with so many injuries that most of them were off the street last week, guys can get it done with the right scheme and adapting to them. How exactly did Brat fail utterly at that and yet is given a free pass?[/quote]

It has to be something like that. You couldn't be a Bengals fan and watched the play calling this season and have been happy. I heard Brats family was booing him from the stands most home games.

[|Elflocko|]

This thread is making Jesus kill puppies...

[sparky151]

I've often disagreed with Old in other threads but he's completely right in this one. You say he didn't have any talent to work with considering the injuries. Why not try receiver screens to Chad? Why not use more rollouts, given Fitz's mobility? The adjustments that Brat made early in the year were lousy. He should have opened up the playbook and run more gadget stuff given that the base stuff wasn't working. He finally did that a bit late in the year, with some pitch plays to Benson, end arounds to Caldwell, etc. He should have been able to do it much earlier in the year.

[scharm]

I don't hate Brat.


It just seems going back to 2007 that if the bengals score more than 2 offensive TDs, work should be called off for a holiday.

[Squirrlnutz]

Reading this thread I was

I agree with OLD 100%

All you have to do is go back to the last half of 07 to see that the offense sucked with Palmer, healthy CJ and TJ etc etc. I think Hobnob wrote in one of his recent articles a comparison of Palmer's stats in his last 12 games vs Fitz. Both had thrown more INTs than TDs and also completion percentage and yards were way off CP's career average. The decline had begun long before the broken nose and the busted elbow.

No amount of circumstances...short of we had to play with 10 players all year long...makes up for his offense being the worst in the league. Every single one of us could print out pages of madden plays and call a season with them and get the same result...DEAD LAST.

I don't care how long he has been working on his system...when the league hands you a lemon you have to make some lemonade. Zimmer got his guys who were AT LEAST AS BAD as the guys Brat had to work with, probably even less talented on the whole and got them to play better than we've seen this century.

Really, its just a sad example of how poorly run this organization is. How can their be no accountability?