BengalBacker Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='10 January 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1263168892' post='855695'] I did not say it was all on Brat either.....but he IS the OC. Ultimately if the offense does not perform and has been in decline it is on him and/or Marvin. [/quote] and/or the players, and/or Mike Brown.... And again, we swept and won our division. And again, Marvin decided we were going to be a "protect the ball, eat the clock running team". Marvin doesn't care if we're the 32nd ranked offense if we win. Until we lost slim, we were winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='10 January 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1263169081' post='855700'] and/or the players, and/or Mike Brown.... [/quote] My honest opinion. Brat and Marvin do not see eye to eye on how the game should be called. In the end, this is Marvin's team and he should have control of what type of offense is run. There can not be any sort of conflict during the game on what plays are being run. Marvin has to be able to turn the reigns over to whoever the OC is just like he did with Zimmer.... From what Willie tweeted and JT seemed to confirm, Marvin wanted Brat gone last year and Hue to be OC. If this is true that tells me all I need to know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='10 January 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1263169314' post='855705'] My honest opinion. Brat and Marvin do not see eye to eye on how the game should be called. In the end, this is Marvin's team and he should have control of what type of offense is run. There can not be any sort of conflict during the game on what plays are being run. Marvin has to be able to turn the reigns over to whoever the OC is just like he did with Zimmer.... From what Willie tweeted and JT seemed to confirm, Marvin wanted Brat gone last year and Hue to be OC. If this is true that tells me all I need to know...... [/quote] I'm not lobbying to keep Brat. I'm much more concerned with keeping Zimmer. I'm just saying that if changes have to be made, they shouldn't be done for reasons that aren't reality. If Brat goes or stays, so be it. Should we be calling for Zimmer's head because of the big runs we gave up yesterday, or Simmons head because of Shayne's misses? If I'm wrong about Marvin dictating what he wants Brat to do on offense, then it probably is time for him to go. If Marvin is telling him to play so conservatively I find it hard to blame Brat. I think Brat is doing what Marvin wants. Maybe they didn't see eye to eye before, and that's why Marvin has tightened the leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='10 January 2010 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1263170067' post='855714'] I'm not lobbying to keep Brat. I'm much more concerned with keeping Zimmer. I'm just saying that if changes have to be made, they shouldn't be done for reasons that aren't reality. If Brat goes or stays, so be it. [b]Should we be calling for Zimmer's head because of the big runs we gave up yesterday, or Simmons head because of Shayne's misses? [/b] If I'm wrong about Marvin dictating what he wants Brat to do on offense, then it probably is time for him to go. If Marvin is telling him to play so conservatively I find it hard to blame Brat. [/quote] Difference is Zimmer is coaching the number 4 D for the season and has improved since he has been here... Brat is coaching the 24th ranked offense that has slowly decayed since 2006. Is it all Brat's fault? Heck no......we need a No. 1 WR another offensive lineman and a good TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Defense and Cedric won the AFC north. Run blocking wasn't all that grand either, but thank you we had a Back who can dodge chumps in the damn backfield and make yards. 24th didn't get the job done, tanks marvin, tanks bob just one and done. Tanks marvin, tanks bob! You seriously think that if Peyton Manning went down, or Drew Brees that it wouldn't matter who you had back there that if you had a running game and defense you'd be right as fucking spring rain? But what the hell was I doing dreaming? This has been a glaring problem all season long, and for at least two consecutive seasons, some say four seasons; you all know what I'm talking about - the weak ass passing game, and the weak ass predictable, bland, blockheaded bologne that Bob the calls out. These chumps get paid all kinds of money to coach these men up. He aint' been getting it done. I hope he goes away quietly in the night to butter fuck his millions. Get us long suffering fans somebody with a fucking clue you bal headed rascal. Carson needs to see a sports psychologist. You know this? Brady gets his knee blasted apart just like Carson California. Do you see Brady being a chicken shit back there in the pocket? Fuck no You see Icewater in his veins and passion in the damn pocket. Yes I know they lost. No fucking call to be all anxious back there. Aaron Rogers got planted and planted and planted, but he gets right the fuck back up, monsters swarming around and puts the ball on the damn money with vigor. Palmers got a hundred million reasons to stand back there without no fear, time and again, whether the protection holds or not, and put that ball on the target like a fucking man. Why the hell do we need to draft a Number One wideout? We are a running team and a defensive team now. Wake up. No need for wideouts. C.J. is still top tier, I don't care what any knuckle head says. He's our number one. They got Coles, and bubba in the game. It appears they wasted a second round pick on Jerome Simpson, hopefully not, hopefully he gets his shot next year, and we all say damn you fools, you had this terror riding the bench when he could have been out here all this time getting some experience. Playing? BUT THAT WOULD TAKE WORK TO WORK HIM INTO THE GAME PLAN YOU LAXY MOTHER FUCKERS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='10 January 2010 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1263170276' post='855720'] Difference is Zimmer is coaching the number 4 D for the season and has improved since he has been here... Brat is coaching the 24th ranked offense that has slowly decayed since 2006. Is it all Brat's fault? Heck no......we need a No. 1 WR another offensive lineman and a good TE. [/quote] What was our offensive ranking under Brat in 05, and I've already given some of the reasons for the decline since then. You even agree it's not all Brat's fault. That's my point. If you have a line that can both pass protect and run block, any OC is going to look good. If your o-line can't do one or the other, and you don't have a mobile QB, and your head coach wants the O to be conservative, it's going to make the OC look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='10 January 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1263169314' post='855705'] My honest opinion. Brat and Marvin do not see eye to eye on how the game should be called. In the end, this is Marvin's team and he should have control of what type of offense is run. There can not be any sort of conflict during the game on what plays are being run. Marvin has to be able to turn the reigns over to whoever the OC is just like he did with Zimmer.... From what Willie tweeted and JT seemed to confirm, Marvin wanted Brat gone last year and Hue to be OC. If this is true that tells me all I need to know...... [/quote] wonder why marvin kept brat and fired two DC's then.. strange.. even stranger when he gets extended TWICE under marvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scales Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Cause Marvin Rides the small bus, and Mikey says: Mikes internal Monologue "Yep, I sure don't like paying coaches who I just fired, and then pay another guy too . . . doesn't really make much bizness sense to me, I did graduate from Dartmouth, or whatever and all. MMMMMM....MONEY. It's nice. It's my reason for being. My daddy gave me a goldmine. He He. To bad It goes when I go. He He. maybe I can figure out a way to get back to more money again. . . i know . . . maybe I can do good deeds . . . or what I can apparently spin into good deeds, seemingly good deeds, but they are really for me!!! I'll make the smart business moves. I'll bring back the Chris Henry guy. He's quite the talent, and he will be CHEAP!!! Oh I know I'll we will give a look at this Cedric Benson guy, 4th overall don't you know, thats something, and HE WILL BE CHEAP!!! Oh I know we will sign this guy and that guy, and this guy and that at one time and they will all be cheap!!! I am a genious!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='GoBengals' date='10 January 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1263170987' post='855732'] wonder why marvin kept brat and fired two DC's then.. strange.. even stranger when he gets extended TWICE under marvin. [/quote] talk to Willie about his tweets then....and JT's response to it. I do know and was told last offseason Hue was seen in the house shortly after the season ended which would seem to coincide with what Willie said. I know....strange huh?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Lets look at the numbers. The 2009 Bengals offense...drumroll.... Ran: 505 times Passed: 506 times Those numbers DO vary from Bengals past seasons 05: Run-459/Pass-559 45/55 (1018 TPs) 06: Run-435/Pass-559 44/56 (994 TPs) 07: Run-416/Pass-592 41/59 (1008 TPs) 09: Run-505/Pass-506 50/50 (1011 TPs) The passing game was horrible this season, horrible. Completely ineffective. And dont give me this crap about the Oline and how they suck. With the way some talk its like this is a JR High Oline. This Oline actually didn't perform all that bad, I've posted numbers on the percentage a number of QBs were hit/sacked when they dropped back and Carson had decent protection. The offensive line ranks #9 on the NFL.com site, mainly giving up only 29 sacks, and only 5 other teams gave up less QBs hits than the Bengals. Indy, Tenn, New Orleans and San Diego and NYJ. All gave up less than 56 QB hits. Indy:43 hits/614 passes/7.0 Tenn:44/491 passes/9.0 SD:53/545 passes/10.0 No:52/564 passes/9.2 Jets: 52/423 passes/12.2 Cin: 56/506 passes/11.0 This line did not perform as poorly as some may want to believe. Not bad for a bunch of slapdicks with only 2 returning starters, 1 in a new position and 3 new guys who had never seen much NFL starting action and missing their #1 picks for more than half the season. The Penalties were horrendous though. Who didn't see that stat about how the Bengals led the NFL in offenisve penalties. So much of this was crap that happened before the damn play even started with just sloppy focus. I went through and added them all up over the season, for a total of 114 penalties. Going with what was presented as 68 offensive penalties, it looks like this: Offensive: 68 Defensive: 46 Penalties by game: Den-4 GB-13 Pit-4 Cle-6 Balt-7 Hou-4 Chi-3 Balt-6 Pit-7 Oak-8 Cle-10* Det-9* Minny-11* SD-9* KC-6 NYJ-7 *39, 34.2 of total. 4 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYbengals Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I will agree that the O-line isn't as bad at pass protection as some here would lead you to believe. Look at Green Bay. Their line is way worse than ours yet they can still pass the ball and put points on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='GoBengals' date='10 January 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1263170987' post='855732'] wonder why marvin kept brat and fired two DC's then.. strange.. even stranger when he gets extended TWICE under marvin. [/quote] you are on your own with that one. MANY people who actually know some stuff inside the locker room have said the past 2 years that marvin has wanted brat gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThurmanMunster Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='NYbengals' date='10 January 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1263173879' post='855756'] I will agree that the O-line isn't as bad at pass protection as some here would lead you to believe. Look at Green Bay. Their line is way worse than ours yet they can still pass the ball and put points on the board. [/quote] actually GBs OL was playing amazing from about week 8 or 9 until today and then they sucked today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Quaker' date='10 January 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1263172849' post='855749'] Lets look at the numbers. The 2009 Bengals offense...drumroll.... Ran: 505 times Passed: 506 times Those numbers DO vary from Bengals past seasons 05: Run-459/Pass-559 45/55 (1018 TPs) 06: Run-435/Pass-559 44/56 (994 TPs) 07: Run-416/Pass-592 41/59 (1008 TPs) 09: Run-505/Pass-506 50/50 (1011 TPs) The passing game was horrible this season, horrible. Completely ineffective. And dont give me this crap about the Oline and how they suck. With the way some talk its like this is a JR High Oline. This Oline actually didn't perform all that bad, I've posted numbers on the percentage a number of QBs were hit/sacked when they dropped back and Carson had decent protection. The offensive line ranks #9 on the NFL.com site, mainly giving up only 29 sacks, and only 5 other teams gave up less QBs hits than the Bengals. Indy, Tenn, New Orleans and San Diego and NYJ. All gave up less than 56 QB hits. Indy:43 hits/614 passes/7.0 Tenn:44/491 passes/9.0 SD:53/545 passes/10.0 No:52/564 passes/9.2 Jets: 52/423 passes/12.2 Cin: 56/506 passes/11.0 This line did not perform as poorly as some may want to believe. Not bad for a bunch of slapdicks with only 2 returning starters, 1 in a new position and 3 new guys who had never seen much NFL starting action and missing their #1 picks for more than half the season. The Penalties were horrendous though. Who didn't see that stat about how the Bengals led the NFL in offenisve penalties. So much of this was crap that happened before the damn play even started with just sloppy focus. I went through and added them all up over the season, for a total of 114 penalties. Going with what was presented as 68 offensive penalties, it looks like this: Offensive: 68 Defensive: 46 Penalties by game: Den-4 GB-13 Pit-4 Cle-6 Balt-7 Hou-4 Chi-3 Balt-6 Pit-7 Oak-8 Cle-10* Det-9* Minny-11* SD-9* KC-6 NYJ-7 *39, 34.2 of total. 4 games. [/quote] I'll bet no other NFL fan forum has the Quakers and the Amish generating/compiling stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Blake Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='10 January 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1263172045' post='855745'] talk to Willie about his tweets then....and JT's response to it. I do know and was told last offseason Hue was seen in the house shortly after the season ended which would seem to coincide with what Willie said. I know....strange huh?!? [/quote] I don't have any doubts that Marvin probably wanted a change at some point but that doesn't mean he wasn't overridden by Mr. Brown. Does anyone know if Brat's contract is up? If it is I can't imagine Marvin wanting him back if he was having doubts before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Jeff Blake' date='10 January 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1263176588' post='855774'] I don't have any doubts that Marvin probably wanted a change at some point but that doesn't mean he wasn't overridden by Mr. Brown. Does anyone know if Brat's contract is up? If it is I can't imagine Marvin wanting him back if he was having doubts before. [/quote] Brat's contract is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='10 January 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1263172045' post='855745'] talk to Willie about his tweets then....and JT's response to it. I do know and was told last offseason Hue was seen in the house shortly after the season ended which would seem to coincide with what Willie said. I know....strange huh?!? [/quote] the bitter old tackle so scorned from being asked to take a paycut? OH NOEZ!@!11 im not terribly concerned with JT's responses either.. he is a retired defensive tackle, his opinion on his old teams offensive coordinator isnt a huge concern of mine. just as i wouldnt be concerned with nate livings opinions on mike zimmer... its precious that you found someone who you feel is a reliable opinion on it that agrees with you.... but bitter twitter talk doesnt have shit to do with anything.. hell willie was cut twice in 12 months from teams who needed oline help badly and still thinks he can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='GoBengals' date='10 January 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1263177118' post='855779'] the bitter old tackle so scorned from being asked to take a paycut? OH NOEZ!@!11 im not terribly concerned with JT's responses either.. he is a retired defensive tackle, his opinion on his old teams offensive coordinator isnt a huge concern of mine. just as i wouldnt be concerned with nate livings opinions on mike zimmer... its precious that you found someone who you feel is a reliable opinion on it that agrees with you.... but bitter twitter talk doesnt have shit to do with anything.. hell willie was cut twice in 12 months from teams who needed oline help badly and still thinks he can play. [/quote] What does Willie being cut have anything to do with what he knows about Hue? You are really grasping at straws.... It was relayed to me a looooong time ago that Hue was brought in for a chat..... Willie tweeting what he did just confirms what I was told.... you really are arrogant sometimes....really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Tigers Johnson' date='10 January 2010 - 09:38 PM' timestamp='1263177485' post='855781'] What does Willie being cut have anything to do with what he knows about Hue? You are really grasping at straws.... It was relayed to me a looooong time ago that Hue was brought in for a chat..... Willie tweeting what he did just confirms what I was told.... you really are arrogant sometimes....really. [/quote] i could care less about hue... what does that have to do with anything? neither your source, yourself, and certainly not willie know why he was brought in.. or for what role. it was rumored a year ago, january of 2009, no way it could of had anything to do with chad and tj loving the guy and wanting him back as they both shut up and did as told when he was around... since leaving here as a wr coach, his resume is extremely unimpressive.. i mean a WR coach in baltimore.. shit Flacco was 4 of 10 today... thts pretty good right? where did the suck fest for zampese go... i mean when carson was bombing zampese was a genius and gonna be an OC somewhere any second... you're stretching with an old WR coach who was an oc for a year and is a QB coach on a team with a shitty QB.. ive spent about 45 minutes typing in this thread today using stats, facts, hitory and reality, and youve come back with twitter posts and rumor. stop wasting everyones time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MULLY Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Quaker' date='11 January 2010 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1263172849' post='855749'] I've posted numbers on the percentage a number of QBs were hit/sacked when they dropped back and Carson had decent protection. The offensive line ranks #9 on the NFL.com site, mainly giving up only 29 sacks, and only 5 other teams gave up less QBs hits than the Bengals. [/quote] Yeah, but a sack is when the QB goes down with the ball. Carson may not have been sacked a whole helluva lot but he sure was scrambling around quite a bit and throwing the ball nowhere because someone was up his ass. MULLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorclaws Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Fulcher_33' date='10 January 2010 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1263178885' post='855784'] Yeah, but a sack is when the QB goes down with the ball. Carson may not have been sacked a whole helluva lot but he sure was scrambling around quite a bit and throwing the ball nowhere because someone was up his ass. MULLY [/quote] Not to mention we used 6 linemen a lot more than other teams did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='gatorclaws' date='10 January 2010 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1263178963' post='855786'] Not to mention we used 6 linemen a lot more than other teams did. [/quote] Which means you can't run a lot of those other plays everyone wants to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I have to chime in and say that for the most part, this has been the most reasonable pro v con debate thread about Bratkowski I think I've ever read on here (especially the last two pages), and particularly in light of the playoff loss yesterday. The first couple pages promised drunken post-game "FUCK U BRAT" textalicious tripe, but the thread has been resurrected as a quasi-reasonable discussion. Good on ya, Go-Bengals posters. FTR, I am of a mind that Brat could stay or go, and that an improvement in the level of talent is far more crucial than a replacement in coaching, although I'm down for whatever at this point. We HAVE to improve the talent, and I assume we will via the draft and re-signing some guys (and maybe a b-list "diamond in the rough" player or two free agent), but if we ALSO went in another direction in terms of coaching replacement, I wouldn't be sad either. Us improving in talent, experience and yet another crucial set of potential returns from injury for next season is a given. The coaching situation is up in the air. I'm inclined to favor the side that the Bengals coaches did a pretty good job with what they were given to use this season, and that we actually can only get better. Palmer is a big worry for me, though. I don't think its just the oline anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalBacker Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='Bunghole' date='10 January 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1263180179' post='855796'] I have to chime in and say that for the most part, this has been the most reasonable pro v con debate thread about Bratkowski I think I've ever read on here (especially the last two pages), and particularly in light of the playoff loss yesterday. The first couple pages promised drunken post-game "FUCK U BRAT" textalicious tripe, but the thread has been resurrected as a quasi-reasonable discussion. Good on ya, Go-Bengals posters. [/quote] That's because I started posting in it. Wisdom with old age, and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 [quote name='BengalBacker' date='10 January 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1263182016' post='855817'] That's because I started posting in it. Wisdom with old age, and all that. [/quote] You don't even remember who Brat is, do you, Grandpa? "C'mon Uncle BB, back in the car, you're still getting used to your new meds and all..." OK, you have some occasional nuggets of lucidity amongst your Alzheimer-infused rants, I'll give you that... What happened to that rocking chair smiley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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