AJ Green or D-Line Help?

[bengalsfan850]

i wonder if tennesee would want to trade with us since they are going to need a QB?

[happyrid]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294344618' post='959143']
The game I saw him in I would agree. From his highlight reel and writeups I think he is close to their status.
[/quote]

I think he is a better prospect than Andre and Fitz. The guy is just a freak athlete with amazing hands. I don't know that WR is a huge need, but I am 100% sold on Green's talent. Don't be shocked if he runs a Calvin Johnson-like 4.35-4.40 at 6'4 215 either.

[BBR]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294337453' post='959071']
not what I'd like to be doing.



I just think, if you commit to making Gresham (and even Coffman) a bigger part of the offense, then you can get by with Simpson/Caldwell/Shipley while bringing along a rookie like Leonard Hankerson, Austin Pettis, or Terance Toliver. All guys who have #1 WR skill sets but will be available in rounds 2-3.

That way you don't use a valuable first round pick on a WR (even though Green is a stud), still get a potential #1 WR, and still are able to grab a potental stud defensive linemen, something this team has been longing for for a long time.


And if it all goes to plan you have two #1 WR's on the team in both Simpson and the rookie, while also having a dominant pass rush on defense.
[/quote]


Not picking on you (I happen to agree with the premise of your arguement), but it's not like this draft isn't just as deep if not deeper on the Defensive Line than it is at receiver:

WR (including likely juniors):
1.) *A.J. Green
2.) *Julio Jones
3.) **Justin Blackmon
4.) *Malcolm Floyd
5.) *Jonathon Baldwin
6.) *Ryan Broyles
7.) *Torrey Smith
8.) Leonard Hankerson
9.) Greg Little

I'd expect the top 4 to go in the first round. The others in the 2nd.

DE (including likely juniors):
1.) *DaQuan Bowers
2.) *Robert Quinn
3.) Adrian Clayborn
4.) Cameron Heyward
5.) Ryan Kerrigan
6.) Cameron Jordan
7.) *J.J. Watt
8.) Jeremy Beal
9.) Jabaal Sheard

I'd expect 7 or 8 of them to have a legit shot of going in the first round. The others in the 2nd.

DT (including likely juniors):
1.) *Nick Fairley
2.) *Marcel Dareus
3.) Allen Bailey
4.) *Corey Liuget
5.) Marvin Austin (should drop due to character issues)
6.) Drake Nevis
7.) Christian Ballard
8.) Stephen Paea

I'd expect the top 3 maybe 4 to go in the first round. The others in the 2nd - Ballard and Paea might drop to the 3rd.


Anyways, I think people are seriously delusional or simplifying things to prove their own point if they don't want to admit that there are just as many, if not more "impact" defensive lineman at the top of this draft than there are receivers. This draft seriously blows at the top end for offensive linemen, linebackers, and tightends.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1294345557' post='959156']
I think he is a better prospect than Andre and Fitz. The guy is just a freak athlete with amazing hands. I don't know that WR is a huge need, but I am 100% sold on Green's talent. Don't be shocked if he runs a Calvin Johnson-like 4.35-4.40 at 6'4 215 either.
[/quote]


IMO, he might be the safest pick in the entire draft.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='BBR' timestamp='1294345772' post='959159']
Not picking on you (I happen to agree with the premise of your arguement), but it's not like this draft isn't just as deep if not deeper on the Defensive Line than it is at receiver:

WR (including likely juniors):
1.) *A.J. Green
2.) *Julio Jones
3.) **Justin Blackmon
4.) *Malcolm Floyd
5.) *Jonathon Baldwin
6.) *Ryan Broyles
7.) *Torrey Smith
8.) Leonard Hankerson
9.) Greg Little

I'd expect the top 4 to go in the first round. The others in the 2nd.

DE (including likely juniors):
1.) *DaQuan Bowers
2.) *Robert Quinn
3.) Adrian Clayborn
4.) Cameron Heyward
5.) Ryan Kerrigan
6.) Cameron Jordan
7.) *J.J. Watt
8.) Jeremy Beal
9.) Jabaal Sheard

I'd expect 7 or 8 of them to have a legit shot of going in the first round. The others in the 2nd.

DT (including likely juniors):
1.) *Nick Fairley
2.) *Marcel Dareus
3.) Allen Bailey
4.) *Corey Liuget
5.) Marvin Austin (should drop due to character issues)
6.) Drake Nevis
7.) Christian Ballard
8.) Stephen Paea

I'd expect the top 3 maybe 4 to go in the first round. The others in the 2nd - Ballard and Paea might drop to the 3rd.


Anyways, I think people are seriously delusional or simplifying things to prove their own point if they don't want to admit that there are just as many, if not more "impact" defensive lineman at the top of this draft than there are receivers. This draft seriously blows at the top end for offensive linemen, linebackers, and tightends.
[/quote]

I see your point, but let's not go crazy here.

7 DE's aren't going in the first round. And many of the guys you listed, aren't good fits for a 4-3 defense.

Further, many of the DT's you listed also aren't good fits for a 4-3.

[Elijah15]

Why the fuck do we need a cb? stupid ass people smh.

[BBR]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294345987' post='959162']
I see your point, but let's not go crazy here.

7 DE's aren't going in the first round. And many of the guys you listed, aren't good fits for a 4-3 defense.

Further, many of the DT's you listed also aren't good fits for a 4-3.
[/quote]


I agree. I doubt 7 go in the first round but there are probably 7 that have a realistic chance to go in the first round as of right now which is what I was getting at. I do expect a couple of spots that would normally go to offensive tackles to go to defensive linemen though. So I wouldn't be surprised if 1/3 of the round was defensive linemen.

I just don't believe that passing on a defensive lineman in the first means you won't / can't get one where we'd be picking in the 2nd which is how some people make it sound.

Oh, and most of the DT's are good fits for the 4-3. At worst, they'd be decent UTs. Some of the DE's are more likely to fit better as 3-4 OLBs or 3-4 DEs though.

[spicoli]

[quote name='Missya15' timestamp='1294347592' post='959171']
Why the fuck do we need a cb? stupid ass people smh.
[/quote]

Uh how about because we only have one healthy CB under contract? Everyone else is either hurt, unsigned or just plain sucks.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Missya15' timestamp='1294347592' post='959171']
Why the fuck do we need a cb? stupid ass people smh.
[/quote]


Because we have a guy that isnt under contract, and 2 guys that will not have a contract after next year.

I dont think we take one but I dont think its out of the question either.

[Elijah15]

[quote name='spicoli-2' timestamp='1294347880' post='959173']
Uh how about because we only have one healthy CB under contract? Everyone else is either hurt, unsigned or just plain sucks.
[/quote]
ummm,adam jones should be healthy by next year and they all should be healthy by next season. So we can resign them and not waste a pick on a fucking cb and resign jjoe. we got bigger needs than corner

[JC]

[quote name='Missya15' timestamp='1294348072' post='959176']
ummm,adam jones should be healthy by next year and they all should be healthy by next season. So we can resign them and not waste a pick on a fucking cb and resign jjoe. we got bigger needs than corner
[/quote]
It's not really that easy..

[spicoli]

[quote name='Missya15' timestamp='1294348072' post='959176']
ummm,adam jones should be healthy by next year and they all should be healthy by next season. So we can resign them and not waste a pick on a fucking cb and resign jjoe. we got bigger needs than corner
[/quote]

What bigger need? Can't take o-line with the #4 pick. Not taking a QB. I'd say secondary is a bigger need than d-line now that we have Dunlap, Atkins and MJohnson to go along with Peko, Sims and whoever else they keep. Hell, realistically, WR is a bigger need than d-line at this point.

Adam Jones "should" be ready, but who knows?

Trent "should" be ready, but who knows?

Even if you do re-sign JJoe, he's still somewhat injury prone.

Halls contract is up after next year.

Oh I think quite a case can be made for taking a DB in the first rd.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Missya15' timestamp='1294348072' post='959176']
ummm,adam jones should be healthy by next year and they all should be healthy by next season. So we can resign them and not waste a pick on a fucking cb and resign jjoe. we got bigger needs than corner
[/quote]


jones can barely go a game staying healthy.


Jjoe is not under contract.



And that "fucking CB" you're complaining about would probably become a free safety if he were drafted here.

[Elijah15]

If hes safety thats cool with me,chill the fuck out

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Missya15' timestamp='1294349456' post='959191']
If hes safety thats cool with me,[b]chill the fuck out[/b]
[/quote]


is that what you said to yourself in the mirror?

[bengaled]

[quote name='spicoli-2' timestamp='1294332561' post='959045']
Why does it have to be D-line or WR?

A guy like Patrick Peterson makes perfect sense.
[/quote]


yeah, if you don't want to pay JJ it does. i just think it's a shame to let him get away. do we draft these picks to just get one contract out of them, especially when they succeed and prove to be good picks? how do you ever make up ground on the teams at the top by doing that?

my thinking is you should put a premium on retaining those picks. use the draft to upgrade your other problem areas. let's not act like the money isn't there to make it happen...we both know better. for that matter it could have been handled last season when we stayed $30M below on payroll of what would have been the expected cap. i'd hate losing this kid.

[spicoli]

The only thing that worries me with JJoe and a big contract is the fact that, so far in his career, he's been fairly injury prone. He just doesn't hold up like Hall does on the other side. If they can only sink a ton of $$ into one of them, I'd rather it be Hall. Maybe draft Peterson, franchise JJoe this year and sign Hall long-term next year. I just have a feeling that's how it's gonna play out

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1294350898' post='959202']
yeah, if you don't want to pay JJ it does. i just think it's a shame to let him get away. do we draft these picks to just get one contract out of them, especially when they succeed and prove to be good picks? how do you ever make up ground on the teams at the top by doing that?

my thinking is you should put a premium on retaining those picks. use the draft to upgrade your other problem areas. let's not act like the money isn't there to make it happen...we both know better. for that matter it could have been handled last season when we stayed $30M below on payroll of what would have been the expected cap. i'd hate losing this kid.
[/quote]


they've been pretty good about retaining their own (sometimes to a fault) that they seem to want to keep.

Justin wasn't worth the money he got, nor was Madieu or Stacey.

And they already had Steinbach's (who wasn't worth the money he got) replacement in Whit.


Levi, Willie, Whit, Carson, Peko, and Chad are all examples of "their own" guys they've shelled out for.


I think they'll get it done. Why hasn't it already? I dunno, maybe they are concerned about his injury history.

[bengaled]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294334966' post='959056']
I dont have the feeling that pouncey makes it past the group of the pats-steelers-ravens and colts.
[/quote]


i think pouncey's going to be a good player, but i don't see him as a must have type. i don't really think you do either, so maybe this reply is unnecessary. he's a good guard that you could likely put in a group of 3 guys, or so, and not be too disappointed with which one you came away with. realistically speaking, any guard/tackle worthy of being taken in that area should be able to add a lot of quality to your lineup.

[Elijah15]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294350315' post='959198']
is that what you said to yourself in the mirror?
[/quote]

[oldschooler]

I just want an Elite player that is worthy of the position they will be picked in, for a change.

[akiliMVP]

Count me in the against a corner with the 4th pick crowd.

Would feel like a downgrade for me.

We already know what our team is like with 2 very good corners. I am partial to those 2 corners and think we should keep them. We don't know what our team is like with a deep, dominating defensive line.

If we are going to do things like Pittsburgh and Baltimore, defensive line is the pick.

Also no to Peterson as a safety with the 4th pick. If they trade down (highly unlikely), I'm fine with it. If you think a stud safety is a top priority, look for Kenny Tate (Maryland) in round 2. I'd rather see the 1st two picks go toward defensive and offensive line, with the 3rd rounder on a safety like Ahmad Black or Quinton Carter.

[bengaled]

[quote name='happyrid' timestamp='1294345557' post='959156']
I think he is a better prospect than Andre and Fitz. The guy is just a freak athlete with amazing hands. I don't know that WR is a huge need, but I am 100% sold on Green's talent. Don't be shocked if he runs a Calvin Johnson-like 4.35-4.40 at 6'4 215 either.
[/quote]

but i don't believe he weighs 215, or that he'll run that fast, either. and the one thing he doesn't have, that the guys you mention do, is the big stud type body that can endure the hits from the NFL style of play. that's an unanswered question about him that concerns me. can he take the beating of the NFL with that skinny frame? you know he's going to be tested...tested like he's never been tested before. if he doesn't answer that question, he's not worthy of the pick. obviously, we'll never get that answer until his playing career begins. so for me, with everything else considered, that just isn't worth getting out on that limb. i don't necessarily downgrade him due to his body type. but i think it throws a concern out there. judging from there, and with the way our roster is made up, i make a different selection that doesn't concern me that way. this pick has to play big minutes, and possible injury concerns can't play into it with a selection this high. again, this is with looking at all of the needs on the team and making the assessment.

[scharm]

I think the defense has alot of solid players. When you see their CBs those among the best.

I have for a few years (since BJ Raji) of adding to a strength and taking a change to land a franchise play maker along that D-line.

Then if you could find a wild man at Safety, oh boy!

[bengaled]

[quote name='BBR' timestamp='1294347624' post='959172']
I agree. I doubt 7 go in the first round but there are probably 7 that have a realistic chance to go in the first round as of right now which is what I was getting at. I do expect a couple of spots that would normally go to offensive tackles to go to defensive linemen though. So I wouldn't be surprised if 1/3 of the round was defensive linemen.

I just don't believe that passing on a defensive lineman in the first means you won't / can't get one where we'd be picking in the 2nd which is how some people make it sound.

Oh, and most of the DT's are good fits for the 4-3. At worst, they'd be decent UTs. Some of the DE's are more likely to fit better as 3-4 OLBs or 3-4 DEs though.
[/quote]


but, if we did that, you have to ask yourself.... would we have the luxury of then taking a DL in the 2nd at that point? isn't it semi-established that that pick should go for a OL, being one of our overall biggest needs, or if not a safety? so then you'd be talking about scrounging though the scrap heap of what's left in round 3. you and i both know it's not likely that any of the guys you listed fall that far. that or you take one of the DL in round 2 and are now trying to find a OL in round 3. and if you do that, what's the chances you get him up to speed enough in year one to provide significant help? do you see the possible dilemna in that? i think it throws you off schedule in addressing your most important needs, then once you try to fit that schedule, you probaly would/could find yourself reaching. i just don't see where adding AJ green is quite that necessary for the success of this offense.