WRAPradio Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I keep going back and forth on if I'd like AJ Green with the fourth pick. It all comes down to can Jerome Simpson be counted upon for 80 catches. If you draft Green, either Shipley or Caldwell gets moved to the back burner and both are deserving to play. If Simpson gets you 80 catches, Gresham, Caldwell and Shipley get you 40 each, that's 200 receptions. If Carson completes 60% of his passes, that's 333 attempts which is more than enough for this offense. Throw in the fact the the RBs will probably get around 25-35 catches and I don't really know if we need Green. Obviously, he'd be nice to have, but at the expense of getting another defensive lineman? Look at the Giants (though they didn't make the playoffs either). Their defensive line makes their D really good. Their linebackers and secondary aren't as good as ours I don't think. Justin Tuck (who many here wanted to draft), Osi and other on the D-line are playmakers and they have a nice rotation on that DL. I think our defense is on the verge of being really good and you have to keep addng pieces. Bowers or Fairley would be nice and you can never forget about injuries. Drafting one of those two players gives you depth and flexibility on the line and allows you to let Geathers or Odom walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullichicken25 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 i really dont see the need to take a WR #4 overall my guess is that the new OC is going to center the offense around Benson and Gresham. After that, between Shipley, Simpson, and Caldwell i think we have enough weapons. Even if simpson really isnt as good as he played the last couple games, he's showed enough to know he's a deep threat that defences will have to keep there eyes on in the NFL, and ACF north especially, you cant go wrong with having a bad ass defensive line think about consistantly getting pressure on the QB with the front four, with Hall, Joseph, and Pacman in the secondary...thats a fuckin wet dream right there i just hope that at least one or two of Dunlap, MJ, Atkins, or Bowers/Fairly proves to be good enough vs. the run to really be a 3 down player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 One can never have enough quality defensive (or offensive) linemen. There will be a gifted defensive lineman at #4. And since you don't have to have them be The Man from day one...they can get integrated into the rotations. And since the offensive line will be addressed (hopefully) in subsequent picks...a potentially great defensive lineman would be a natural selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthPaw Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='WRAPradio' timestamp='1294330001' post='959030'] I keep going back and forth on if I'd like AJ Green with the fourth pick. It all comes down to can Jerome Simpson be counted upon for 80 catches. If you draft Green, either Shipley or Caldwell gets moved to the back burner and both are deserving to play. If Simpson gets you 80 catches, Gresham, Caldwell and Shipley get you 40 each, that's 200 receptions. If Carson completes 60% of his passes, that's 333 attempts which is more than enough for this offense. Throw in the fact the the RBs will probably get around 25-35 catches and I don't really know if we need Green. Obviously, he'd be nice to have, but at the expense of getting another defensive lineman? Look at the Giants (though they didn't make the playoffs either). Their defensive line makes their D really good. Their linebackers and secondary aren't as good as ours I don't think. Justin Tuck (who many here wanted to draft), Osi and other on the D-line are playmakers and they have a nice rotation on that DL. I think our defense is on the verge of being really good and you have to keep addng pieces. Bowers or Fairley would be nice and you can never forget about injuries. Drafting one of those two players gives you depth and flexibility on the line and allows you to let Geathers or Odom walk. [/quote] I stated this in another thead just a little bit ago. I wouldnt mind moving down toward the back end of the first round to take Quan Sturdivant at linebacker from North Carolina. If not, they could move down to the middle of the first and trade w/ a team like Miami, who will be looking for a QB and select Marcel Dareus. Just some thoughts and a different spin the draft. More than likely though, ol' mikey will stay at no. 4 and selct A.J. Green. I just read a column that stated he could be the best player in the draft, so it may not be a totally bad idea. I just hate the thoughts of selecting a WR that high when we having some other pressing needs we could address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 We are in a tough situation. If we rely on Simpson and Caldwell and they fall flat, at a position where we could have gotten a stud then that is foolish. However, if we draft a 1st rounder, or sign anyone and they take the minutes away from Simpson or Caldwell then aren't we just doing to them what we have done for 3 years and muzzling their ability. Its a tough one. The 2 biggest factors might be 1) They are both Free Agents after next year. 2) They both have a very short resume. In my opinion I think you still take AJ Green but my logic is changing from an agressive need at WR to a lack of a need along the DL. I wish there was a #1 LT to make this simple for everyone. Or, as Jeff Hobson pointed out CB might be the spot with an oft injured Free Agent in JJ and what sounds like pretty sever injuries for both Pac Man and Trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthPaw Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294332053' post='959041'] We are in a tough situation. If we rely on Simpson and Caldwell and they fall flat, at a position where we could have gotten a stud then that is foolish. However, if we draft a 1st rounder, or sign anyone and they take the minutes away from Simpson or Caldwell then aren't we just doing to them what we have done for 3 years and muzzling their ability. Its a tough one. The 2 biggest factors might be 1) They are both Free Agents after next year. 2) They both have a very short resume. In my opinion I think you still take AJ Green but my logic is changing from an agressive need at WR to a lack of a need along the DL. [b]I wish there was a #1 LT to make this simple for everyone. Or, as Jeff Hobson pointed out CB might be the spot with an oft injured Free Agent in JJ and what sounds like pretty sever injuries for both Pac Man and Trent. [/quote][/b] I agree, possibly taking PP at this spot may not be such a bad idea. They may be able to trade down to San Fran or Tennesse, two teams who will clearly looking to take a QB and then selct PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthPaw Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='SouthPaw' timestamp='1294332228' post='959043'] [/b] I agree, possibly taking PP at this spot may not be such a bad idea. They may be able to trade down to San Fran or Tennesse, two teams who will clearly looking to take a QB and then selct PP, and making it not such a reach selecting him at # 4. However, i just read mock draft that had Denver taking Prince Amukamara at no.2, so maybe taking Petersonat #4 wouldnt be such a reach afterall. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote]AJ Green or D-Line Help?[/quote] Why does it have to be D-line or WR? A guy like Patrick Peterson makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patmo Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Do we need more help @ WR or DL or CB. I'm for Bowers, Fairley or Patterson @ 4. No question Green is a stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRAPradio Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='spicoli-2' timestamp='1294332561' post='959045'] Why does it have to be D-line or WR? A guy like Patrick Peterson makes perfect sense. [/quote] I agree Peterson would be a nice pick, but people are saying he'll be a saftey in the NFL. I'd be a little nervous drafting someone that high that needs to learn a new position. I guess if we were able to get Fairly in round 1 and Pouncy in the 2nd that would be a pretty nice start to the draft impacting both lines. Since we have the 4th pick in the 1st, but we've got the same record as other teams, don't we get the 2nd or 3rd pick in the 2nd round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I dont have the feeling that pouncey makes it past the group of the pats-steelers-ravens and colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Unless we trade down... Bowers or the best CB... is it Akamura? from Nebraska? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 How does Peterson make perfect sense? How about you resign the guys you have at CB who are some of the best in the NFL and draft another position you need some help with? AJ Green is a good pick for many teams, but not us. See if any offensive tackles look the part (trade down and grab one???) or take the best defensive lineman available. THE GAME IS WON AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. Give me the big guys who can move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294332053' post='959041'] [b]We are in a tough situation. [/b] If we rely on Simpson and Caldwell and they fall flat, at a position where we could have gotten a stud then that is foolish. However, if we draft a 1st rounder, or sign anyone and they take the minutes away from Simpson or Caldwell then aren't we just doing to them what we have done for 3 years and muzzling their ability. Its a tough one. The 2 biggest factors might be 1) They are both Free Agents after next year. 2) They both have a very short resume. In my opinion I think you still take AJ Green but my logic is changing from an agressive need at WR to a lack of a need along the DL. I wish there was a #1 LT to make this simple for everyone. Or, as Jeff Hobson pointed out CB might be the spot with an oft injured Free Agent in JJ and what sounds like pretty sever injuries for both Pac Man and Trent. [/quote] actually, we are in a great position. It's a very deep WR class and the Bengals are in a position where they can draft a future #1 WR and allow them to contribute in 2011 while not having them steal snaps away from Simpson and Caldwell. Drafting successful players in gresham and shipley last year allow you to do that. And if all goes to plan, you potentially have 2 #1 WR's (Simpson and the draft pick) in the future. Further, we are in a position to address the weakest part of our defense: pass rush. Whether it be at defensive end or defensive tackle. I love the position we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294336913' post='959066'] actually, we are in a great position. It's a very deep WR class and the Bengals are in a position where they can draft a future #1 WR and allow them to contribute in 2011 while not having them steal snaps away from Simpson and Caldwell. Drafting successful players in gresham and shipley last year allow you to do that. And if all goes to plan, you potentially have 2 #1 WR's (Simpson and the draft pick) in the future. Further, we are in a position to address the weakest part of our defense: pass rush. Whether it be at defensive end or defensive tackle. I love the position we are in. [/quote] I like this argument and it is compelling me to the dark side... What do you do for a living? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'd like to see what Bowers runs in the 40 and 3 cone drill. He and Los, assuming they both don't play LE could be nasty. If he is lackadaisical at the combine, go with Peterson. Of course, Bowers and Peterson could be snatched in the picks before us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1294337154' post='959067'] I like this argument and it is compelling me to the dark side... What do you do for a living? [/quote] not what I'd like to be doing. I just think, if you commit to making Gresham (and even Coffman) a bigger part of the offense, then you can get by with Simpson/Caldwell/Shipley while bringing along a rookie like Leonard Hankerson, Austin Pettis, or Terance Toliver. All guys who have #1 WR skill sets but will be available in rounds 2-3. That way you don't use a valuable first round pick on a WR (even though Green is a stud), still get a potential #1 WR, and still are able to grab a potental stud defensive linemen, something this team has been longing for for a long time. And if it all goes to plan you have two #1 WR's on the team in both Simpson and the rookie, while also having a dominant pass rush on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 To add to my post, we really need to re-sign Johnathan. Let Benson walk if it means Jo will be back. Keep your corner tandem in fold. Get a great safety and let Los, MJ, and GenoStacks get to the QB and them do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='JC' timestamp='1294337277' post='959069'] I'd like to see what Bowers runs in the 40 and 3 cone drill. He and Los, assuming they both don't play LE could be nasty. If he is lackadaisical at the combine, go with Peterson. Of course, Bowers and Peterson could be snatched in the picks before us. [/quote] in the bowl game Bowers took a lot of snaps from both sides of the line. I didn't pay attention to it too much, but I think that maybe he was lining up on whichever was the strongside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1294337588' post='959073'] in the bowl game Bowers took a lot of snaps from both sides of the line. I didn't pay attention to it too much, but I think that maybe he was lining up on whichever was the strongside. [/quote] Having Bowers on one side and Los on the other side could be dynamic. People gushed about Dez Briscoe only being twenty. By the time the season is supposed to start next year Da'Quan will only be twenty-one. Very young and still probably physically maturing a bit. Only problem would be that we would need him to sign a two year contract instead of 5 so he and Los aren't one year apart. We could see the same problem were getting ready to have with Joseph and Leon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1294336590' post='959065'] How does Peterson make perfect sense? How about you resign the guys you have at CB who are some of the best in the NFL and draft another position you need some help with? [/quote] um because other than Hall and JJoe (who is a FA and injury prone), who else do we have in the secondary? You can't count on PacMan and his herniated disc. And with all of the 3 WR sets and athletic TE's in the NFL today, the more guys you have that can cover, the better off you're going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I think Bowers is a bad idea. The position does not have a good hx of producing solid Early First Round talent and he does not have a long history of production. Now Fairley and Peterson I could get behind. Ignoring need I think my list would be Green, Fairley and Peterson where we pick and thats it. I am not sure what the difference is between Peterson and Namakamuara or whatever his name is. It could be negligible and worth the trade down. I do agree with whomever said that it makes more sense to keep JJ and fill another need. That has not been our MO and it always sets us back. Madieu, Steinbech, Justin even TJ. All seemed like wise decisions at the time but all of them left us with a pretty big hole to fill. Its better to start from the baseline and move up then take a few steps back and try to move up. (That seems to contradict my want for Peterson, I know!! I just hink that he is that good and might be able to play safety for a bit. I do agree with the notion that you should be weary of drafting a guy to play a new position. I like his chances more then Bowers busting.) I really don't think trading down is a good option. It seems reasonable but the playmaker you can get at 9 or 15 is not likely do be nearly the playmaker you get at 4. If there is one thing this team needs its a playmaker. (and an OL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Scenerios I think Peterson makes sense: 1. Luck stays in school and draft plays out 1.Bowers 2.Fairley 3.Dareus/Quinn or some combo of the three best DL in the draft. 2. We move down 2-3 spots as someone wants to leap frog the Cardnials for one of the QBs. Other than that, it don't matter if you got Primetime, Rod Woodson and Dick Lebeau covering Freddie Mitchell, Bennie Brazell, and Charles Johnson...if the QB has all day to throw, they'll get open. So gimmie mofos that will put the QB on his back all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubdub Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I like Green but I dont think he is the next Andre Johnson or Fitzgerald. IMHO I think he will just be an average to above average pro. Just my gut... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='kdubdub' timestamp='1294342178' post='959107'] I like Green but I dont think he is the next Andre Johnson or Fitzgerald. IMHO I think he will just be an average to above average pro. Just my gut... [/quote] The game I saw him in I would agree. From his highlight reel and writeups I think he is close to their status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.