SooneraBengal Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1297458129' post='970044'] i wouldn't.... money talks. [/quote] It certainly does. Thing is, if there was ever a kid that I'd bet on not listening as readily as the rest, it'd be him. He's as well-grounded of a kid (i.e. he has his heart set on being a pastor after football) as I've ever seen come through the program. A couple of other factors that lead me to believe that he'd stick around are that 1. his family is quite well off financially (IIRC his dad is in the oil business)so a lack of money's not an issue, & 2, IMO (& I bet his as well if you asked him), he's not close to being ready yet. He certainly had a good amount of stretches where he'd play like a 1st round pick, but he also had a considerable amount of "what was he thinking" periods of play as well. I'd obviously expect those lapses to dwindle the more he plays, but at this point, he's still got some improving to do before he starts thinking about the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1297480732' post='970128'] Someone should post that PFT post about mayock not bothering to go to the workout. I thought it was good. [/quote] [quote][size="5"][b]Mayock on Newton: “I really didn’t need to see the workout”[/b][/size] Posted by Evan Silva on February 10, 2011, 8:31 PM EST Mike Mayock is the NFL Network’s featured draft analyst, but he was not in attendance for Thursday’s Cam Newton “Media Day.” NFLN sent Bucky Brooks instead. So why wasn’t Mayock in San Diego? “I really didn’t need to see the workout, nor do I need to hear about the workout. … I’ve watched five of (Newton’s) game tapes,” Mayock explained. “He’s got a classic overhand delivery, he’s got a big arm. [color="#FF0000"][b]You and I in gym shorts at the local high school can throw pretty accurately, so I would guarantee you (Newton) would look great in a pair of gym shorts.[/b][/color] “…But I would also (offer) one cautionary note, and that is [color="#FF0000"][b]the best Pro Day for a quarterback I ever attended was JaMarcus Russell.[/b][/color] That same day, even though I admitted it was the best Pro Day I ever saw, I also said I wouldn’t take (Russell) in the first round.” ESPN’s Trent Dilfer, of course, was at Newton’s Media Day, and came away saying the workout could push the 2010 Heisman Trophy winner’s stock into the top-five picks. Mayock disagrees. [b]“To me, there are two issues with this kid,” said Mayock. “Issue number one is he came out of a shotgun (offense), and if you watch the tape it’s basically a very simple offense. … And secondly, most importantly, when you get to a certain skill level in the NFL, which this kid certainly has, at the quarterback position, what kind of kid is he?[/b] “Is he going to be the first guy in the building? Is he a gym rat? Is he football smart?” All day long, ESPN watchers were showered in Dilfer’s praise of Newton Media Day. Mayock, meanwhile, is sticking by his guns. Just as he did on January 25, Mayock has Newton ranked third among draft-eligible quarterbacks in his latest rankings, which were updated Thursday afternoon.[/quote] http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/10/mayock-on-newton-i-really-didnt-need-to-see-the-workout/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297389554' post='969823'] way to stay on topic. And no, no he hasn't. [/quote] Actually, he has way more playoff experience, success and has way more upside than Carson. If a GM had to pick one they would all pick Sanchez. Carson has nice stats but is on the downside of his career and has no success in the playoffs. Sanchez has 2 full NFL seasons under his belt and is only 24, Carson didn't throw an NFL pass until he was 25. Sanchez is WAY further along in his developement at his current age than Carson was. He is 4-2 in the playoffs and outplayed Carson last year in the playoffs as a 23 year old rookie in an AWAY game. He is only going to get better. Also, Sanchez bagged a 17 year old high school senior the other day, something most of us can only dream of and in some states, be arrested for. I hate the Jets, but every red blooded heterosexual male wants to be Mark Sanchez in the off season for a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1297532443' post='970245'] Actually, he has way more playoff experience, success and has way more upside than Carson. If a GM had to pick one they would all pick Sanchez. Carson has nice stats but is on the downside of his career and has no success in the playoffs. Sanchez has 2 full NFL seasons under his belt and is only 24, Carson didn't throw an NFL pass until he was 25. Sanchez is WAY further along in his developement at his current age than Carson was. He is 4-2 in the playoffs and outplayed Carson last year in the playoffs as a 23 year old rookie in an AWAY game. He is only going to get better. Also, Sanchez bagged a 17 year old high school senior the other day, something most of us can only dream of and in some states, be arrested for. I hate the Jets, but every red blooded heterosexual male wants to be Mark Sanchez in the off season for a week or two. [/quote] 'eh, the Jets are 4-2 in playoffs with him as a starter, but he's had little impact in those games. He's asked just not to screw it up. He's got a great defense and great offensive line. As for the head to head against Carson, I think we both can agree that Carson was facing the much tougher defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297533026' post='970247'] 'eh, the Jets are 4-2 in playoffs with him as a starter, but he's had little impact in those games. He's asked just not to screw it up. He's got a great defense and great offensive line. As for the head to head against Carson, I think we both can agree that Carson was facing the much tougher defense. [/quote] I agree to a point. At 24 Sanchez will only get better just as Carson only got better until the hits and oline issues began to take their toll. The top QBs in the NFL are about the change as Brady and Manning began to decline in ability. Sanchez, Bradford, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Josh Freeman and the like are the future of the NFL. Young Guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1297535082' post='970253'] I agree to a point. At 24 Sanchez will only get better just as Carson only got better until the hits and oline issues began to take their toll. The top QBs in the NFL are about the change as Brady and Manning began to decline in ability. Sanchez, Bradford, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Josh Freeman and the like are the future of the NFL. Young Guns. [/quote] Sanchez definitely has age on his side. The question though was who's had the better career so far. Sanchez hasn't come anywhere close to 2005-2006 Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297480330' post='970127'] there is no way in hell any player franchised in the next 11 days will get the tag taken away from him. It just won't happen. Reedy didn't mention him because he's not a realistic option. He's not leaving Indy. You know that. [/quote] You're assuming an awful lot. The owners tossed the old CBA and are asking the players to exclude an additional billion dollars from the pool of money that is split. They are also asking the players to play 18 games instead of 16. They'll havea to give up something to get those things. The union is already upset about the RFAs not moving in 2010. Only 1 player changed teams, going from New Orleans to Philadelphia. There is a grievance over that which the league will want settled in the CBA. The obvious solution is easier free agency for players. Since careers are short, the players might ask for free agency after 3 years instead of 4. The league would probably rather give up the right of refusal and reduce draft compensation. Owners like Mike Brown depend on conscripted labor but most owners are less old school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Tigers Johnson| Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='mongo' timestamp='1297458101' post='970043'] Is that a sad collection of quarterbacks or what? [/quote] That is why a QB of Carson Palmer's caliber should net at least a high first and third.... If not, then let him sit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1297536356' post='970259'] You're assuming an awful lot. The owners tossed the old CBA and are asking the players to exclude an additional billion dollars from the pool of money that is split. They are also asking the players to play 18 games instead of 16. They'll havea to give up something to get those things. The union is already upset about the RFAs not moving in 2010. Only 1 player changed teams, going from New Orleans to Philadelphia. There is a grievance over that which the league will want settled in the CBA. The obvious solution is easier free agency for players. Since careers are short, the players might ask for free agency after 3 years instead of 4. The league would probably rather give up the right of refusal and reduce draft compensation. Owners like Mike Brown depend on conscripted labor but most owners are less old school. [/quote] no team that franchises a player this year, which will likely be close to or more than half of them, is going to risk losing that player by giving up the franchise tag. They may make a deal where next year is the last year, but its not gonna happen as far as the 2011 season goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengaled Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 [quote name='SooneraBengal' timestamp='1297491414' post='970149'] It certainly does. Thing is, if there was ever a kid that I'd bet on not listening as readily as the rest, it'd be him. He's as well-grounded of a kid (i.e. he has his heart set on being a pastor after football) as I've ever seen come through the program. A couple of other factors that lead me to believe that he'd stick around are that 1. his family is quite well off financially (IIRC his dad is in the oil business)so a lack of money's not an issue, & 2, IMO (& I bet his as well if you asked him), he's not close to being ready yet. He certainly had a good amount of stretches where he'd play like a 1st round pick, but he also had a considerable amount of "what was he thinking" periods of play as well. I'd obviously expect those lapses to dwindle the more he plays, but at this point, he's still got some improving to do before he starts thinking about the league. [/quote] i'd expect a lot of his warts will get ironed out this year and his progression will likely be huge. basically, there's no reason to think that won't happen. when kids go back for their senior year they're taking a big gamble, because it only takes one play, one injury for everything to go down the drain.. there's just as much reason, if not more, to think he'll be coming out in next year. by this time next year we're going to be talking about the #1 or #2 pick in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297548638' post='970275'] no team that franchises a player this year, which will likely be close to or more than half of them, is going to risk losing that player by giving up the franchise tag. They may make a deal where next year is the last year, but its not gonna happen as far as the 2011 season goes. [/quote] Why not? Less than half the teams are going to use a tag this season. What else are the owners going to give up if not something like this? Not to mention the players may just run to the arbitrator and get the tags tossed that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1297564268' post='970293'] Why not? Less than half the teams are going to use a tag this season. What else are the owners going to give up if not something like this? Not to mention the players may just run to the arbitrator and get the tags tossed that way. [/quote] It only takes 9 owners to vote down a CBA deal proposal. I'm willing to bet there will be more than 9 owners who franchise someone in the next 10 days who won't want to take the tag off of that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297564408' post='970294'] It only takes 9 owners to vote down a CBA deal proposal. I'm willing to bet there will be more than 9 owners who franchise someone in the next 10 days who won't want to take the tag off of that player. [/quote] The tags are based on 2010 salaries from the uncapped year. There were lots of players who got accelerated payments to move the money off the cap so the tag numbers will be pretty high. In a negotiation, nobody is going to get everything they want, giving up tags that may not even be legal is an easy give compared with free agency a year earlier or major post career health insurance payments. Nobody thinks Manning is going to leave Indy even if he is truly free. Teams were well under where the cap would have been if it were in effect so there's nobody who is particulary cap strapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted February 13, 2011 Report Share Posted February 13, 2011 [quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1297564781' post='970298'] The tags are based on 2010 salaries from the uncapped year. There were lots of players who got accelerated payments to move the money off the cap so the tag numbers will be pretty high. In a negotiation, nobody is going to get everything they want, giving up tags that may not even be legal is an easy give compared with free agency a year earlier or major post career health insurance payments. Nobody thinks Manning is going to leave Indy even if he is truly free. Teams were well under where the cap would have been if it were in effect so there's nobody who is particulary cap strapped. [/quote] That raises some interesting points.. I suspect quite a few big-money teams backloaded contracts fully planning on an expired CBA and there being an uncapped season (if not permanent) in which to clear the books. Makes you wish the fans had a CBA, too.. It's a joke that the league doesn't have highly-paid, full time officials. As much as I enjoy the sport itself, more and more I feel like it's closer to the WWF than a true contest. Real action, sure, but a pre-determined outcome. This on top of the fact that the [i]highest[/i] paid ref is making around $60k. With the kind of money being wagered every weekend I just can't convince myself that a whole slew of them aren't on the take. The fact that the league basically ignores, or at best makes excuses for, horrible officiating doesn't do much for my trust in the NFL as a governing body. You see line judges make bad spots constantly; how much do you think it'd take to buy one of those guys when they're making $20k/year? I mean shit most of the teams were founded or are owned by guys with ties to gambling (at least.) There's a difference between "conspiracy theory" and applying Occam's Razor. What's more likely; that half the refs are so blind and incompetent they can't get the spot right when the play is 3 feet in front of them, or they are making ends meet by regularly accepting bribes? Seems obvious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297535272' post='970255'] Sanchez definitely has age on his side. The question though was who's had the better career so far. Sanchez hasn't come anywhere close to 2005-2006 Carson. [/quote] Carson was age 26-27 when he put up those stats but still did nothing playoff wise. Sanchez is only 24 but as won four playoff games and made it to the conference championship twice. It just depends on what you consider success to be honest. If stats are your thing than Kenny Anderson is a much better QB than Terry Bradshaw with a 9 point advantage in the QB rating and 5000 more yards passing. Problem is most people consider post season success the benchmark, not stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Top QB's available via trade: Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb Top Free Agent QB's: Matt Hasselbeck Matt Leinart Alex Smith Marc Bulger Kerry Collins Rex Grossman Bruce Gradkowksi Trent Edwards Kellen Clemens Chad Pennington Troy Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 [quote name='Inigo Montoya' timestamp='1297701767' post='970479'] Top QB's available via trade: Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb Top Free Agent QB's: Matt Hasselbeck Matt Leinart Alex Smith Marc Bulger Kerry Collins Rex Grossman Bruce Gradkowksi Trent Edwards Kellen Clemens Chad Pennington Troy Smith [/quote] a caveat on this list, Orton is likely to be cut as the Broncos aren't going to pay him $7 million to be backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|westside bengal| Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 [quote name='Inigo Montoya' timestamp='1297701767' post='970479'] Top QB's available via trade: Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb Top Free Agent QB's: Matt Hasselbeck Matt Leinart Alex Smith Marc Bulger Kerry Collins Rex Grossman Bruce Gradkowksi Trent Edwards Kellen Clemens Chad Pennington Troy Smith [/quote] About all those guys are on the list for a reason. If LeFevour has any potential at all I think I would rather give him the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mu Shu Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but what about Leinart? He didn't fit into Arizona's vertical style, but under a west coast, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Would it be out of the question to trade Palmer to Carolina for Beason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1297704926' post='970482'] a caveat on this list, Orton is likely to be cut as the Broncos aren't going to pay him $7 million to be backup. [/quote] and he is the only one on that entire list that I would want/wouldn't hate to be a Bengal... Well Kolb might be ok, but the asking price for him will be much to high... Rex Grossman... puke.. that would be so freaking disgusting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 [quote name='fluhartz' timestamp='1297862698' post='970843'] and he is the only one on that entire list that I would want/wouldn't hate to be a Bengal... Well Kolb might be ok, but the asking price for him will be much to high... Rex Grossman... puke.. that would be so freaking disgusting... [/quote] Rexy will be back in Washington, he wasn't terrible there this season and will be back in the mix for their starter. If we get a vet at QB I'd rather just go out to sign Bulger than trade for Orton. They bring the same things to the table and either would be a solid option to start for 1-2 seasons then move into a backup role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningpoint Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'd go hasselbeck and draft a qb to groom behind him if i'm the bengals. Will hasselbeck leave SEA is the question i guess though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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