The Left Hand of Frerotte Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='EnglishBengal' timestamp='1322619177' post='1069387'] Hyperthetical or not! You ought to be ashamed of yourself for even starting this thread. [/quote] Yeah, I'm real ashamed of starting this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|westside bengal| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 There is no doubt that AJ is going to have a very good future and is something special. I dont think I would trade now. But since we are pretending..lets say Cincy drafted Miller instead of AJ...would this season have played out differently? Would the defense be getting off to a slow start in so many games? Would the Bengals be playing from behind as often? With Miller in the lineup do the Bengals beat the Steelers and Ravens? I am not saying that AJ is not the best long term choice or anything of that nature. All I am asking what others might think. This season alone with Miller and what he brings to the table vs AJ,,..Could Cincy have still won the games they have and maybe win some of the games they didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='EnglishBengal' timestamp='1322619177' post='1069387'] Hyperthetical or not! You ought to be ashamed of yourself for even starting this thread. [/quote] Agree. This is one of the dumbest threads I've seen on here in a while. He probably saw the same NFL Live that I was watching the other day where somebody suggested that Von Miller should be included in Rookie of the Year talk. Why would you want to give up your best receiver when for a DL when our DL is getting all kinds of acclaim and our WR corps is fairly thin? And right after AJ more or less won the game on Sunday with that amazing catch and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1322613787' post='1069361'] CJ's rookie year was 48 catches for 756 yards and four touchdowns AJ's is currently 44 catches for 745 yards and 6 touchdowns. Just Sayin'. [/quote] Yeah, but Johnson was the number 2 receiver behind Roy Williams in Detroit the first year. (He actually might have been the #3 receiver) They didn't make that mistake the following year. Kitna did have 4000 yds passing that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Left Hand of Frerotte Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='Hooky' timestamp='1322658591' post='1069429'] Agree. This is one of the dumbest threads I've seen on here in a while. He probably saw the same NFL Live that I was watching the other day where somebody suggested that Von Miller should be included in Rookie of the Year talk. Why would you want to give up your best receiver when for a DL when our DL is getting all kinds of acclaim and our WR corps is fairly thin? And right after AJ more or less won the game on Sunday with that amazing catch and run.[/quote] Pitiful post. It's a fucking hypothetical question, a valid one at that, and you end up getting sand in your vagina. You're right though, Von Miller and his 10 sacks wouldn't look good on this defense right now. Pitiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='The Left Hand of Frerotte' timestamp='1322659596' post='1069434'] You're right though, Von Miller and his 10 sacks wouldn't look good on this defense right now. Pitiful. [/quote] Hey, reading curve, where did I say that? I'm not saying that we're set at DL, but that's the last place we would need to trade our star WR to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Lucid| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I wouldn't make the trade, but I would like to point out that we put up our biggest offensive numbers against the Ravens, with Dalton eclipsing his previous passing yardage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1322658614' post='1069430'] Yeah, but Johnson was the number 2 receiver behind Roy Williams in Detroit the first year. (He actually might have been the #3 receiver) They didn't make that mistake the following year. Kitna did have 4000 yds passing that year. [/quote] Are you seriously trying to say that he was behind Roy Williams? Roy "I sure fucked Dallas Hard" Williams? Do you think AJ would be behind friggin' Roy Williams? As Chris Carter would say, "COME ON, MAN!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1322669306' post='1069466'] Are you seriously trying to say that he was behind Roy Williams? Roy "I sure fucked Dallas Hard" Williams? Do you think AJ would be behind friggin' Roy Williams? As Chris Carter would say, "COME ON, MAN!!" [/quote] Uhh, he was behind Roy Williams as a rookie. Megatron was the #3 then #2 receiver as the season progressed. This was BEFORE Williams went to Dallas and he didn't fuck anyone, Dallas was just stupid. Williams had been Detroits #1 receiver for 3 straight years. The year before CJ got there Roy E. Williams was a pro bowler with 1310 yards receiving catching balls from newly signed Kitna who was going to save the franchise. They went 3-13. Don't forget, Williams was catching passes from Joey "Hospital Ball" Harrington his first 2 years. Not defending Williams but you should check your work before it gets graded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1322670957' post='1069470'] Uhh, he was behind Roy Williams as a rookie. Megatron was the #3 then #2 receiver as the season progressed. This was BEFORE Williams went to Dallas and he didn't fuck anyone, Dallas was just stupid. Williams had been Detroits #1 receiver for 3 straight years. The year before CJ got there Roy E. Williams was a pro bowler with 1310 yards receiving catching balls from newly signed Kitna who was going to save the franchise. They went 3-13. Don't forget, Williams was catching passes from Joey "Hospital Ball" Harrington his first 2 years. Not defending Williams but you should check your work before it gets graded. [/quote] No, you should stop making stupid excuses. If Chad was here, do you think AJ would still be the #1? I do. And Chad's body of work FAR exceeds Roy Williams. I'm not trying to take anything away from CJ, but It does seem that you are trying to do your best to work the numbers to your opinion, damn the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I think Calvin was a little more raw coming out of college than AJ was. I think GTech ran that triple option while Calvin was there and the ACC is light years behind the SEC. In regards to the thread, it's a hypothetical question, and it's a fair one. Von Miller would make this team ridiculous defensively. Dunlap is the only other guy on this defense that is close to being on the same level. If we wouldn't have gotten AJ, I'm sure we would have signed a WR anyways. We couldn't have gone wrong either way. Both of these guys will be 10+ year pro-bowlers and look like they could be on their way to Canton barring serious injury. They're really, really, good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1322675312' post='1069483'] No, you should stop making stupid excuses. If Chad was here, do you think AJ would still be the #1? I do. And Chad's body of work FAR exceeds Roy Williams. I'm not trying to take anything away from CJ, but It does seem that you are trying to do your best to work the numbers to your opinion, damn the facts. [/quote] I am not sure what you are trying to get at. I only pointed out that Calvin Johnson wasn't the primary receiver his rookie year while AJ Green is. Chad is 33 years old and had just came off a bad season. He had lost a step and was a whining bitch. He was outplayed by a 37 year old Terrel Owens. The front office was grateful they got a ham sandwich and a jar of pickles from New England for him. Of course Green was going to be the number 1 receiver even if Chad was still here particularly with Drunkowski gone. Who gives a shit what somebody's body of work had been, Chad was and is washed up and the front office knew it. Roy Williams was 25 and coming off of a pro bowl season when Johnson was drafted. There was no reason to expect him to regress in 2007 (Johnson's rookie year) but that tends to happen when Jon Kitna is your QB and your oline is dogshit. The next year a whiny Roy went to Dallas. I guarantee you AJ would NOT have taken Chad's spot as the number one receiver when Chad [b]JOHNSON[/b] was 25. It was the first of his 5 consectutive pro bowl seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1322687496' post='1069543'] I am not sure what you are trying to get at. I only pointed out that Calvin Johnson wasn't the primary receiver his rookie year while AJ Green is. Chad is 33 years old and had just came off a bad season. He had lost a step and was a whining bitch. He was outplayed by a 37 year old Terrel Owens. The front office was grateful they got a ham sandwich and a jar of pickles from New England for him. Of course Green was going to be the number 1 receiver even if Chad was still here particularly with Drunkowski gone. Who gives a shit what somebody's body of work had been, Chad was and is washed up and the front office knew it. Roy Williams was 25 and coming off of a pro bowl season when Johnson was drafted. There was no reason to expect him to regress in 2007 (Johnson's rookie year) but that tends to happen when Jon Kitna is your QB and your oline is dogshit. The next year a whiny Roy went to Dallas. I guarantee you AJ would NOT have taken Chad's spot as the number one receiver when Chad [b]JOHNSON[/b] was 25. It was the first of his 5 consectutive pro bowl seasons. [/quote] AJ is having one of the most productive rookie WR campaigns in the history of the league. I believe that he would be doing the same thing regardless of who was on the other side. Athletically, CJ may, and I stress may, be better, but AJ is a much better technician and has way better feel for the game as a rookie than CJ had as a rookie. Didn't Moss have Carter on the other side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1322689340' post='1069554'] AJ is having one of the most productive rookie WR campaigns in the history of the league. I believe that he would be doing the same thing regardless of who was on the other side. Athletically, CJ may, and I stress may, be better, but AJ is a much better technician and has way better feel for the game as a rookie than CJ had as a rookie. Didn't Moss have Carter on the other side? [/quote] No doubt AJ is the fucking bomb. I imagine if Palmer had not gone all pussy on us, he would have a bunch more yards, receptions and tds to boot since we probably would have passed quite a bit more early on instead of bring Andy along slowly in a strike shortened pre season. I am glad as hell we drafted him now and wouldn't trade him for Von Miller. Cleveland has a good defense and is boring as fuck to watch play. Watching a good defense play is a lot more enjoyable when you think you can win every game and you know your offense can score. Us old timers remember the Jeff Blake days and even though they didn't make the playoffs, the games were fun to watch most of the time. I will always side with a powerful offense and stud offensive players, its just a lot more fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccartman2 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='kennethmw' timestamp='1322613787' post='1069361'] CJ's rookie year was 48 catches for 756 yards and four touchdowns AJ's is currently 44 catches for 745 yards and 6 touchdowns. Just Sayin'. [/quote] Yeah but CJ didn't have Andy Fucking Dalton throwing to him now did he? He might have gone for 2000 yards.... But no I wouldn't trade Green for many players at all at this point, let alone Von Miller. He doesn't get hurt against Pittsburgh, I think we win both those games. It'll be a shame when he doesn't win rookie of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Von Miller's injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalbutch Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'd take Patrick Peterson all day every day over Von Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Besides Green being a stud in his own right, I think what he does for Dalton is even more important. Putting guys in a position to succeed is important as anything. Without Green this offense does not go. And Andy Dalton's development is not on such a steep curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1323055174' post='1071368'] Besides Green being a stud in his own right, I think what he does for Dalton is even more important. Putting guys in a position to succeed is important as anything. [b]Without Green this offense does not go. [/b]And Andy Dalton's development is not on such a steep curve. [/quote] I wouldn't say that. This offenses' best output of the season was with AJ Green in street clothes on the sidelines. I mentioned it yesterday, whether its gruden, dalton, or the WR's, this offense needs to do a better job of spreading the ball around to its secondary WR's. It seems like every play is designed to go to Green or Gresham as the primary targets, and the other guys only get passes if green/gresham are covered. IMO they need to scheme Hawkins and Simpson open more, using Gresham and Green as decoys at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1323044137' post='1071299'] I'd take Patrick Peterson all day every day over Von Miller. [/quote] Too early to say, but he is definitely improving as a cover guy. I thought overall, he did a good job vs. Dez Bryant yesterday. He's a stud return guy, for sure. Tremendous athlete; I'm looking forward to seeing him vs. AJ when they play in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelWeston Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1323090628' post='1071405'] I wouldn't say that. This offenses' best output of the season was with AJ Green in street clothes on the sidelines. I mentioned it yesterday, whether its gruden, dalton, or the WR's, this offense needs to do a better job of spreading the ball around to its secondary WR's. It seems like every play is designed to go to Green or Gresham as the primary targets, and the other guys only get passes if green/gresham are covered. IMO they need to scheme Hawkins and Simpson open more, using Gresham and Green as decoys at times. [/quote] Having a top level WR makes Daltons job 10000x easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='JC' timestamp='1322675493' post='1069486'] I think Calvin was a little more raw coming out of college than AJ was. I think GTech ran that triple option while Calvin was there and the ACC is light years behind the SEC. In regards to the thread, it's a hypothetical question, and it's a fair one. [b]Von Miller would make this team ridiculous defensively[/b]. Dunlap is the only other guy on this defense that is close to being on the same level. If we wouldn't have gotten AJ, I'm sure we would have signed a WR anyways. We couldn't have gone wrong either way. Both of these guys will be 10+ year pro-bowlers and look like they could be on their way to Canton barring serious injury. They're really, really, good. [/quote] If we were a 3-4 defense maybe. The way we use our LBs, I'm not so sure. Fit is just about as important as talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1323099783' post='1071453'] Having a top level WR makes Daltons job 10000x easier. [/quote] oh no doubt. But this offense has shown they can move the ball without Green. And honestly, I think it was the best all around game the offense has had, as Dalton was getting EVERYONE involved. Something that doesn't seem to happen when Green is in the lineup for whatever reason. Now are they a better offense with Green on the field? Obviously. But the offense runs through Dalton, not Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1323100220' post='1071457'] oh no doubt. But this offense has shown they can move the ball without Green. And honestly, I think it was the best all around game the offense has had, as Dalton was getting EVERYONE involved. Something that doesn't seem to happen when Green is in the lineup for whatever reason. Now are they a better offense with Green on the field? Obviously. But the offense runs through Dalton, not Green. [/quote] When Jerome plays well the offense can go without Green. But Jerome is far too inconsistent to rely on for any extended length of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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