A sign of things to come with the offense?

[Bengals1181]

With the addition of of Orson Charles (who's drawn comparisons to Aaron Hernandez) to go with Gresham and other weapons, is this a hint of some of the looks we'll see from Gruden's offense this year?



[quote][size=6][b]Breaking Down the Patriots "Joker" personnel[/b][/size]


[size=3][color=#072055][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A look at the 'Smash-7' with Gronkowski and Hernandez. [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/matt-bowen.html"]Matt Bowen[/url][/font][/color][/size]

[color=#072055][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/inside-the-playbook.html"]Click here[/url][color=#333333][size=3] for the entire Inside the Playbook series.[/size][/color][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3]I want to go back to the AFC Playoffs and talk formation and route scheme with the Patriots. An offense that will use multiple personnel groupings, disguise concepts and throw in [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/With-Gronkowski-Patriots-have-a-matchup-weapon.html"]some window dressing to run basic routes inside of the red zone[/url].[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3]New England has “Joker” personnel (3 WR, 2 TE) on the field and aligns TE Aaron Hernandez in the backfield as the “R.” Take a look at the route scheme drawn up below (with both TEs highlighted in yellow) and then we will get into some coaching points.[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3][b]Broncos vs. Patriots
Personnel: Joker (3 WR, 2 TE)
Formation: Slot Open
Route scheme: Smash-7[/b][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3][img]http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c1910342/media_center/images/static/media_box/Joker.png[/img][/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3]- Start with the personnel and the alignment. This is nothing more than a “slot open” formation (3 WRs to the open side), but the alignment of Hernandez will impact the pre-snap adjustments for the secondary. The defense has to treat Hernandez as the RB (or “R”). But I can tell you that whenever a receiver is aligned in the backfield, it causes confusion from a defensive perspective.[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3]- Go the open (or weak) side of the formation. What you are looking at is a “Double China-7.” A [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Dont-forget-about-Welker.html"]route scheme the Patriots use often in the red zone[/url]. Run the No.3 WR on the [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Inside-the-playbook-the-NFL-route-tree.html"]7 (corner)[/url] with two quick, inside breaking routes underneath. You will see this out of different personnel groupings around the league and it designed to beat Cover 1 and Cover 2. [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Three-routes-you-must-defend-in-the-red-zone.html"]One of the top concepts in the red zone[/url].[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3]- The “Smash-7.” Another common route concept ([url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-Draft-Breaking-down-the-Cover-2-safety.html"]same idea as the Flat-7[/url]), but the Patriots run this to the closed (or strong) side of the formation. TE Rob Gronkowski will release with a vertical stem, create leverage vs. the DB and then break on the 7 cut. The Smash? That’s Hernandez releasing out of the backfield.[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][size=3]- This is why the Patriots ([url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Breaking-down-Graham-and-the-red-zone-slant.html"]along with the Packers and Saints[/url]) are tough to prep for when we talk defensive game plans. They use so many different (and unique) looks, plus they break tendencies. Remember, the route scheme here isn’t complicated at all. However, the pre-snap alignment and formation are the key. And we are once again looking at the impact of the TE position in New England.[/size][/size][/font][/color]
[size=3][color=#333333][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Follow me on Twitter: [/font][/color][url="https://twitter.com/#!/mattbowen41"]@MattBowen41[/url][/size][/quote]


[url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Breaking-down-the-Patriots-Joker-personnel.html"]http://www.nationalf...-personnel.html[/url]

[TheBeaverHunter]

This is the AFC North. We are a power running division. We don't need no fancy passin plans. Keep that for the fairy teams like the Pats and Packers.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1336572834' post='1129692']
This is the AFC North. We are a power running division. We don't need no fancy passin plans. Keep that for the fairy teams like the Pats and Packers.
[/quote]


we're not talking full time, but the bengals are still, ya know, gonna pass the ball from time to time.


We'll certainly see them use 4 and 5 receiving option sets throughout the year.

[Jason]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1336572834' post='1129692']
This is the AFC North. We are a power running division. We don't need no fancy passin plans. Keep that for the fairy teams like the Pats and Packers.
[/quote]

Yeah, lord knows we don't want to go to a Super Bowl like those 2 teams did the last 2 years.

[scharm]

Bengal fans are going to struggle with this over Gresh's career. They are going to see big numbers from Gronk and Hernandez.

I'm not sure Gresh will put up those type of numbers. Mainly we haven't see the new offense over multiple years.

The advantage of the Gresh is he can be an in-line TE and also spread out. I'd like to see more receptions to him down the seam on the same side as AJ Green. I think that would be damaging to a defense rolling cover to AJ.

I'm not sure how many balls will go his way and how much desire there will be to throw alot.

[Tigris]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1336572834' post='1129692']
This is the AFC North. We are a power running division. We don't need no fancy passin plans. Keep that for the fairy teams like the Pats and Packers.
[/quote]

I don't know if you're serious or not, but that power running shit is gone. Yeah, we were power running back when Rudi, Jamal Lewis, and Bettis were around, but it's not even close to that anymore. Ray Rice is just as much a receiving threat as he is running threat. The Steelers have been airing it out the past couple years. We couldn't run the ball through a paper wall last year.

You're probably joking so this doesn't matter. That's not the first time I have seen someone say "power running" division as of recent.

[Tigris]

I heard a guy the other day talking about how the NY Giants ran the ball down people's throats and won the SB last year. I looked it up because I thought it sounded off... dead last in rushing yards.

[scharm]

AFC North is just a physical division. I think people mistakenly equate that to power running only.

[Tigris]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1336573569' post='1129700']
AFC North is just a physical division. I think people mistakenly equate that to power running only.
[/quote]

Definitely a defensive division these days.

[sparky151]

Charles can be an H-back as well as a TE, so we could very well see him line up as Hernandez did on that play.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1336574799' post='1129707']
Charles can be an H-back as well as a TE, so we could very well see him line up as Hernandez did on that play.
[/quote]

yea that was kind of my thinking. With Charles being able to be an HB, I think there's a number of different ways Gruden can and will use him. I don't know that we'll see him in the backfield a lot, but I DO think we're going to see a lot of 2 TE sets this year in both the running and passing game. We now have 3 very good, well-rounded TE's in Gresham, Charles and Cochart.

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1336572834' post='1129692']
This is the AFC North. We are a power running division. We don't need no fancy passin plans. Keep that for the fairy teams like the Pats and Packers.
[/quote]

Your comment is pure insanity!

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1336572834' post='1129692']
This is the AFC North. We are a power running division. We don't need no fancy passin plans. Keep that for the fairy teams like the Pats and Packers.
[/quote]

I hope you guys know that was pure sarcasm. I have always been a pass first to open the run game kind of guy. For years I have bitched that Marvin is a power runner guy that likes to pass second and that was a dated strategy.

[Abu-Zayd]

The Beav is a sarcastic guy. He has not changed. Why is everyone taking him seriously?

I love the direction the offense has taken and, especially after the years of calling for Brat's removal and installation of a Philly-like system, I feel refreshed in the offensive future.

[texbengal]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1336574996' post='1129709']
yea that was kind of my thinking. With Charles being able to be an HB, I think there's a number of different ways Gruden can and will use him. I don't know that we'll see him in the backfield a lot, but I DO think we're going to see a lot of 2 TE sets this year in both the running and passing game. We now have 3 very good, well-rounded TE's in Gresham, Charles and Cochart.
[/quote]

I could see more 2-TE sets, yes, but I think the comparisons to Hernandez (not you, just what you cited) are a bit much. Charles is a more physical TE, and a better blocker, but he doesn't have Hernandez' ability in the open field. He's a good athlete, but he's not in the same class as a receiver/runner after the catch, IMO.

I do agree that it's a nice young trio of guys who have ability to block and catch. And you've also got Donald Lee, who showed something last year. Guess we'll see how that ends up.

[eva4ben-gal]

I'm excited to see what Gruden can cook up. I have a feeling he's going to try some pretty innovative stuff that will take what the patriots and packers do to a new level. Dick Lebeau is finally going to meet his match.

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1336582855' post='1129739']
The Beav is a sarcastic guy. He has not changed. Why is everyone taking him seriously?

I love the direction the offense has taken and, especially after the years of calling for Brat's removal and installation of a Philly-like system, I feel refreshed in the offensive future.
[/quote]

I agree! The thing that I am wondering now...keep in mind I am one of the biggest Brat bashers on this board and possibly in the world...is, was Brat calling the game like Marvin wanted him to and that is why his plays were so stagnant???

Maybe Marvin realized that the offensive direction was misguided and that is why he brought in a guy with an AFL/UFL background and who's brother is known as a QB guru and West Coast offense guy.

I am super stoked about the potential that we have now.

[bengaled]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1336572834' post='1129692']
This is the AFC North. We are a power running division. We don't need no fancy passin plans. Keep that for the fairy teams like the Pats and Packers.
[/quote]

leave it to beaver!

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='bengaled' timestamp='1336593220' post='1129781']
leave it to beaver!
[/quote]

Alright Eddie.

[Abu-Zayd]

[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' timestamp='1336586207' post='1129747']
I agree! The thing that I am wondering now...keep in mind I am one of the biggest Brat bashers on this board and possibly in the world...is, was Brat calling the game like Marvin wanted him to and that is why his plays were so stagnant???

Maybe Marvin realized that the offensive direction was misguided and that is why he brought in a guy with an AFL/UFL background and who's brother is known as a QB guru and West Coast offense guy.

[/quote]


I think Marvin has left play calling to Gruden but would not refrain from telling Gruden, "... ok we need to pound it now..." or something... hopefully Gruden is not interfered with.

Another thing I have worried about is Gruden's interactions with Paul Alexander and the other offensive coaches... whether they really answer to him or do they go over his head to Marvin if they don't get what they want from Gruden.

I used to wonder why I was a fan and that it was only out of geographical circumstances, but things are different now...

[fredtoast]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1336571234' post='1129681']
With the addition of of Orson Charles (who's drawn comparisons to Aaron Hernandez) to go with Gresham and other weapons, is this a hint of some of the looks we'll see from Gruden's offense this year?






[url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Breaking-down-the-Patriots-Joker-personnel.html"]http://www.nationalf...-personnel.html[/url]
[/quote]

The "slot open" formation is good because you almost always get a slot receiver on a LB instead of a safety.

You better have very good O-line protection if you are going to send the RB out immediately as a primary receiver. But that is going to be the case anytime you run a play with 5 primary receivers.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1336594519' post='1129786']
Alright Eddie.
[/quote]


good one!

[T-Dub]

Both of those corner routes are really picks meant to open up the underneath routes. It's not legal, but Hines & Heath Miller lived off that shit for years.

[|RayDoggBengal|]

Shitburg and the Rats are getting old, instead of trying to beat them at their old game it's time unlease this young fast team and make them play catch up.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='RayDoggBengal' timestamp='1336622791' post='1129855']
Shitburg and the Rats are getting old, instead of trying to beat them at their old game it's time unlease this young fast team and make them play catch up.
[/quote]


kind of the thought I had when I read eva's comment above about Lebeau. Now's the time to take the fight to the Ravens and Stealers. The Bengals now have the weapons, and the experience to launch an assault on two aging defenses that IMO can't keep up. Plus, with the Bengals having a young, deep talented defense of their own, they can dare both teams, particularly the Ravens, into a track meet.