Romney/Ryan

[oldschooler]

[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1344908298' post='1145984']
They tax the fuck out of the wealthiest people... they tax the fuck out of the people below them too... and below them. Taxing decent to high earners more isnt going to reduce the deficit, it isnt going to help the economy... taxing them more isnt the answer to anything except creating more government dependence programs, and less individual independence. I dont like the fact that school programs are cut... but until government spending is reeled in and controlled, you cannot just keep taxing and taxing and taxing people to death. Its un-American. What is American is everyone (everyone) realizing that our country is in trouble, and sacrifices need to be made. That may be in the form of an extra curricular being cut, a little bit higher taxes for EVERYONE (not just the top 5-10-20% of earners).. or a flat tax system that is higher for everyone... whatever it may be- we're in trouble- and making tough cuts and personal sacrifice may be the only thing that helps right the ship.
[/quote]


The United States actually has the lowest corporate tax burden of any of the member nations of the [url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/o/organization_for_economic_cooperation_and_development/index.html?inline=nyt-org"]Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development[/url].


[url="http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/perspectives/believe-it-or-not-us-taxes-are-at-historic-lows-300688/?print=1"]http://www.post-gaze...300688/?print=1[/url]


A 2010 article ....

[b]Tax bills in 2009 at lowest level since 1950[/b]


[url="http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm"]http://www.usatoday....-10-taxes_N.htm[/url]


From a 2011 article ....[list]
[*][b]Today's income tax rates are strikingly [i]low[/i] relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. [/b]For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today.
Read more (Be sure to check the charts and other info) : [url="http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates?op=1#ixzz23U6m4oQO"]http://www.businessi...1#ixzz23U6m4oQO[/url]
[/list]

Sacrifices need to be made from the Corporations that have been making record profits, been bailed out,
been sending jobs overseas, been cutting the jobs while the middle and lower class carry the majority of the burden.


Also, I think it is hilarious that Republicans are for "Fiscal Responsibility" now that a Democrat is in Office.
But had no problem writing blank checks when one of their own was in Office.

I do agree that cuts need to be made. How about we cut how much we pay Politicians? Make them have middle class wages.
I guaran-fucking-tee shit gets fixed then. Seriously, I saw something on the news not too long ago where some Politicians
were paid well over $28 million for the time they wasted (something like 2-3 weeks) to have bogus votes and debates over ObamaCare.

[sois]

[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1344908704' post='1145988']
Yeah you can jump through a ton of hoops with invested money... but thats not the same as payroll. They've paid their taxes on payroll, and are more like professional investors. They've already paid their taxes on the initial earnings though- at a likely high clip. They are still taxed on invested earnings- just not as much. Even so, the total tax amount from payroll + other income sources combined is high as hell.
[/quote]

no, that stuff I said is what you can do instead of cutting someone a standard payroll check.

i don't think you get the tools available at the disposal of rich people. please study up, rich people don't pay shit.

none of us really pay all that much though so whoever above was saying that USA taxes the fuck out of its citizens... it's not true really.

[Jamie_B]

Old I want to have your babies right now.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1344913418' post='1146048']
Old I want to have your babies right now.
[/quote]






Don't make me re-think my stance. lol

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1344913834' post='1146051']



Don't make me re-think my stance. lol
[/quote]

[|Elflocko|]

You guys sit down and start singing Kumbaya and I'm drinking Drano.

Just sayin'...

[big_dish]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1344913203' post='1146046']

Also, I think it is hilarious that Republicans are for "Fiscal Responsibility" now that a Democrat is in Office.
But had no problem writing blank checks when one of their own was in Office.

I do agree that cuts need to be made. How about we cut how much we pay Politicians? Make them have middle class wages.
I guaran-fucking-tee shit gets fixed then. Seriously, I saw something on the news not too long ago where some Politicians
were paid well over $28 million for the time they wasted (something like 2-3 weeks) to have bogus votes and debates over ObamaCare.
[/quote]

I'm not a Republican, and I agree- no one should be writing checks...

Also totally agree that politicians should be paid like regular people, and treated like regular people. That means SS instead of a lifetime of wages, being enrolled in ObamaCare, etc etc

[quote name='sois' timestamp='1344913328' post='1146047']
no, that stuff I said is what you can do instead of cutting someone a standard payroll check.

i don't think you get the tools available at the disposal of rich people. please study up, rich people don't pay shit.

none of us really pay all that much though so whoever above was saying that USA taxes the fuck out of its citizens... it's not true really.
[/quote]

I pay WAY too much in taxes for my liking... and its likely only going up.

Also, you saying that the rich dont pay anything is a total farce and complete propaganda type lie... You and others should be, and are, much smarter than to believe some MSNBC talking point.

I guess you missed this (if the rich arent paying this, then where is it coming from???)- [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Let’s look at the numbers. Using data from the [/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/o..id=133521.oo.html"]Internal Revenue Service[/url][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] in 2009, the top 1% of earners, including individuals with incomes of $343,927 or greater, represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]16.9% of all income and paid 36.7% of all federal taxes[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]. Their average tax rate was 24.01%. The top 0.1% who had incomes of $1,432,890 or greater represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]7.8% of all income and paid 17.11% of all taxes. [/b]

[b]THATS VERY FEW PEOPLE PAYING 53% OF ALL FEDERAL INCOME TAX. ITS NOT COMING OUT OF THIN AIR- THESE ARE THE RICH PEOPLE PAYING MUCH MORE THAN A FAIR SHARE.[/b]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1344947277' post='1146083']
I'm not a Republican, and I agree- no one should be writing checks...

Also totally agree that politicians should be paid like regular people, and treated like regular people. That means SS instead of a lifetime of wages, being enrolled in ObamaCare, etc etc



I pay WAY too much in taxes for my liking... and its likely only going up.

Also, you saying that the rich dont pay anything is a total farce and complete propaganda type lie... You and others should be, and are, much smarter than to believe some MSNBC talking point.

I guess you missed this (if the rich arent paying this, then where is it coming from???)- [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Let’s look at the numbers. Using data from the [/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/o..id=133521.oo.html"]Internal Revenue Service[/url][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] in 2009, the top 1% of earners, including individuals with incomes of $343,927 or greater, represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]16.9% of all income and paid 36.7% of all federal taxes[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]. Their average tax rate was 24.01%. The top 0.1% who had incomes of $1,432,890 or greater represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]7.8% of all income and paid 17.11% of all taxes. [/b]

[b]THATS VERY FEW PEOPLE PAYING 53% OF ALL FEDERAL INCOME TAX. ITS NOT COMING OUT OF THIN AIR- THESE ARE THE RICH PEOPLE PAYING MUCH MORE THAN A FAIR SHARE.[/b]
[/quote]

Once again that is only the rich that report their earnings as income and not capital gains.

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1344947277' post='1146083']
I'm not a Republican, and I agree- no one should be writing checks...
[/quote]

If one takes a look at the current Bernanke doctrine it is a practice that will continue. Can a Bernanke run fed be declared any better than a Greenspan run fed ?

"The U.S. government is not going to print money and distribute it ..." ( Bernanke )

The other problem with Bernanke is who actually appointed him ? Who reappointed him ?
In other words, there is equal blame to go around for the current mess.

Lastly, is there a person out there that can run the fed to solve the current situation with the economy ? Will Jamie ask to be nominated ? and if so will Jamie continue the current policy ?

[Jamie_B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozMpjCSUuWk

[Jamie_B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TB73Lw1XtE&feature=relmfu

[big_dish]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1344951193' post='1146101']
If one takes a look at the current Bernanke doctrine it is a practice that will continue. Can a Bernanke run fed be declared any better than a Greenspan run fed ?

"The U.S. government is not going to print money and distribute it ..." ( Bernanke )

The other problem with Bernanke is who actually appointed him ? Who reappointed him ?
In other words, there is equal blame to go around for the current mess.

Lastly, is there a person out there that can run the fed to solve the current situation with the economy ? Will Jamie ask to be nominated ? and if so will Jamie continue the current policy ?
[/quote]

Personally, I would like to see the Fed audited, and shuttered.

[big_dish]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1344949564' post='1146094']
Once again that is only the rich that report their earnings as income and not capital gains.
[/quote]

Even if so, they are still paying a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Anyway... this will just continue to go in circles. You believe the rich should pay even more, I believe everyone should pay a share (for beginners) before taxes are raised higher on the wealthy only.

We are still edging closer to complete governmental control over the populace than we are towards more liberties and individual successes. That is a scary proposition to me.

[Jamie_B]

We just did audit the Fed, what it needs is a full audit though to include its business practices.

We need the Fed though it serves a purpose, we just need to to be nationalized instead of private, get rid of paying interest to private bankers that way.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1344952248' post='1146109']
Even if so, they are still paying a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Anyway... this will just continue to go in circles. You believe the rich should pay even more, I believe everyone should pay a share (for beginners) before taxes are raised higher on the wealthy only.

We are still edging closer to complete governmental control over the populace than we are towards more liberties and individual successes. That is a scary proposition to me.
[/quote]

disproportionate to who? they pay less as a percentage of their income than most people.

I would argue that FDR had it right in these two quotes


[quote]
[b] [color=#0000ff] “True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.”[/color][/b]


[u][color=#0000ff][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(237, 241, 247)]“[/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://thinkexist.com/quotation/the_liberty_of_a_democracy_is_not_safe_if_the/152437.html"][color=#0000ff]The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it comes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group,[/color][/url][color=#0000ff][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(237, 241, 247)]”[/background][/size][/font][/color][/u]
[/quote]




Government when run properly and not the current fascism we have now, is the provider of liberty against oligarchs and plutocrats. It was government that gave blacks liberty, it was government that insisted that we have labor laws, it was government that put an end to the robber barrons, it was government that gave us our biggest liberty of all in a national highway system ect..ect...

[CincyInDC]

[quote name='big_dish' timestamp='1344952248' post='1146109']
Even if so, they are still paying a disproportionate amount of taxes.

...
[/quote]

When you look at all taxes collected then yes they pay much more per capita. But if you look at their overall revenue you'll find they are paying a lower percentage into the tax pot than any of us. Perhaps by your reasoning you think we should all pay an equal number of dollars into the tax pot? If that's what you think, it's absolutely ludicrous. What [i]do[/i] you think?

[ValleyBengal]

This is a bunch of semantics misrepresenting what is going on:

[u][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Let’s look at the numbers. Using data from the [/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/o..id=133521.oo.html"]Internal Revenue Service[/url][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] in 2009, the top 1% of earners, including individuals with incomes of $343,927 or greater, represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]16.9% of all income and paid 36.7% of all federal taxes[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]. Their average tax rate was 24.01%. The top 0.1% who had incomes of $1,432,890 or greater represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]7.8% of all income and paid 17.11% of all taxes. [/b][/u]

What this aricle conveniently leaves out are the super earners, which Romney is part of (i.e. past 8 digits). When one of the people having the biggest portfolios in the country and practically reports only capital gains admitted to paying a lesser tax rate than his secretary something is rotten. I also don't see the effective average tax rate of that percentile listed in the paragraph, probably for convenience sake. Bunch of talking points and spin of data to ensure people can say: see, the rich get taxed like you and contribute with tax dollars.

I don't think people are too concerned that people/families making in between $350k and the single digit million mark don't pay their fair share in taxes.These are the doctors, lawyers, small entrepreneurs, small business owners, etc. It's the super rich getting away with taking advantage of every loop hole available to them and the prospect of giving them even more breaks is what disgusts the Obama leaning people here.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='ValleyBengal' timestamp='1344955115' post='1146120']
This is a bunch of semantics misrepresenting what is going on:

[u][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Let’s look at the numbers. Using data from the [/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/o..id=133521.oo.html"]Internal Revenue Service[/url][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)] in 2009, the top 1% of earners, including individuals with incomes of $343,927 or greater, represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]16.9% of all income and paid 36.7% of all federal taxes[/b][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]. Their average tax rate was 24.01%. The top 0.1% who had incomes of $1,432,890 or greater represented [/background][/size][/font][/color][b]7.8% of all income and paid 17.11% of all taxes. [/b][/u]

What this aricle conveniently leaves out are the super earners, which Romney is part of (i.e. past 8 digits). When one of the people having the biggest portfolios in the country and practically reports only capital gains admitted to paying a lesser tax rate than his secretary something is rotten. I also don't see the effective average tax rate of that percentile listed in the paragraph, probably for convenience sake. Bunch of talking points and spin of data to ensure people can say: see, the rich get taxed like you and contribute with tax dollars.

I don't think people are too concerned that people/families making in between $350k and the single digit million mark don't pay their fair share in taxes.These are the doctors, lawyers, small entrepreneurs, small business owners, etc. It's the super rich getting away with taking advantage of every loop hole available to them and the prospect of giving them even more breaks is what disgusts the Obama leaning people here.
[/quote]

Pretty much this.

[Jamie_B]

Anyway this is the woman whom Ryan reveres...


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ooKsv_SX4Y[/media]



A friend of mine said it best...

[size=4][color=#333333]"In short...she gets off on solipsism. Since there is no God, she'll be one. And you can be one, too. Just don't jostle each other while you are playing--- God."[/color][/size]

[MichaelWeston]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1344881852' post='1145775']
I think some of the info put out by Rand would not necessarily be such a bad thing. At least compared to "You didn't build that, someone else did" comments made elsewhere. [/quote]

Do you beleive he actually said that. Because the conversation can immediately end there.

[url="http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/"]http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U31mAfMP4Mc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U31mAfMP4Mc[/url]

[Jamie_B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v4PWW301JM&feature=player_embedded

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='MichaelWeston' timestamp='1344955629' post='1146124']
Do you beleive he actually said that. Because the conversation can immediately end there.

[url="http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/"]http://abcnews.go.co...dnt-build-that/[/url]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U31mAfMP4Mc[/media]
[/quote]

"If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

By the reasoning and words used in the article you posted the link for, nothing anyone does is of their own initiative or doing. I don't agree. You may agree with the statement and if you do that is your opinion.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1344957619' post='1146133']
"If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

By the reasoning and words used in the article you posted the link for, nothing anyone does is of their own initiative or doing. I don't agree. You may agree with the statement and if you do that is your opinion.
[/quote]

Completely it's not. You didn't build the roads and highways that made it so your products can get to market, at least not on your own you didnt. That was done by all of us.

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1344957726' post='1146134']
Completely it's not. You didn't build the roads and highways that made it so your products can get to market, at least not on your own you didnt. That was done by all of us.
[/quote]

Excellent example. By this reasoning nobody in America has individual initiative or any rightful claim on any invention because the intellectual property rights to all products belongs to the collective...

Does this apply to blame for a failing economy because we did not do this on our own ? Is it all our fault or can we single out a few individuals who are responsible for making the rules and regulations upon which failure was built ? or should we place it upon the people who invented the computer upon which these items were typed or upon the paper mills which produced the reams of paper upon which it was printed out....etc...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Numbers' timestamp='1344958609' post='1146136']
Excellent example. By this reasoning nobody in America has individual initiative or any rightful claim on any invention because the intellectual property rights to all products belongs to the collective...

Does this apply to blame for a failing economy because we did not do this on our own ? Is it all our fault or can we single out a few individuals who are responsible for making the rules and regulations upon which failure was built ? or should we place it upon the people who invented the computer upon which these items were typed or upon the paper mills which produced the reams of paper upon which it was printed out....etc...
[/quote]

Yes I would argue in part that it is our fault, our fault for not paying attention to what our representatives were doing, and not holding them accountable for it, we failed in our responsibility as citizens.