Bengals1181 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1350311413' post='1170920'] First of all Terrance Newman was brought in to be NOTHING MORE than an experienced backup. Anyone who thought he was an ANSWER to anything obviously didn't watch the over the hill DB play football in Dallas the last 2 years. He was a decent player in his prime but that was years ago. [/quote] I think that's a key issue. IMO he was brought in to be a #4 or #5 and he's been called upon to start most of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I don't want to say the Bengals miss Simpson, but you definitely don't see many deep throws to WRs not named Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 This team's inability to convert third downs on offense and its subsequent inability to get the other team's offense off the field on third downs is KILLING them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1350302731' post='1170880'] Ugly: I can't shake the feeling that momentum in this game turned on two bad calls by the refs. [b]The screwup that cost the Bengals a chance at 3 points at the end of the first half.[/b] Then the missed running into the punter call on Cribbs 62yd punt return during a stretch of 19 minutes and 16 seconds where the Browns failed to gain a first down. They didn't even get a first down on that drive, but the punt return put them in FG range. The refs didn't lose the Bengals the game, but those 6 points loom large in an 11 point game. Much different game at the end if you're driving for the game winning TD rather than driving to get within 3 (after a 2pt conversion) [/quote] I dunno, I don't think I blame the refs, I blame our lackadaisical attitude on that drive. I believe the whistle blew at :15-14 seconds. That is more than enough time to run to the line and spike the ball. We jogged to the line and Dalton/Faine paused for a good 2 1/2 seconds under center before snapping the ball and bringing it all the way up to his shoulder to spike it down. I think there is a reasonable expectation of time loss from the moment the ball is dead to the moment the ref blows his whistle that is damn near 1 second. I think it turned in that 9-10 play sequence of the AJ tipped ball INT to the big punt return to our subsequent 3 and out following the two FGs. I'd have to see the punt again to determine how egregious the running into the kicker was before I get upset by that. More upset by the poor coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 It's amazing how much better Binns looked in the preseason as compared to going against starters now. Is it he isn't fast enough? Not physical enough? Doesn't run crisp enough routes? I think he has been flagged at least twice this year for offensive pass interference. It now looks like the coaches are starting to look at other guys for an answer, but from watching the games, Tate doesn't seem like a natural WR. He made a nice catch, but he too didn't seem to run the right kind of routes. That slant he ran where Dalton threw an interception was way too deep, and it is his responsibility to make sure he in front of the CB to make the catch or at worst knock the ball down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverfront Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='EnglishBengal' timestamp='1350247671' post='1170619'] Agreed on that. But I think we already have our no.2 receiver in Marvin Jones (see the impact he made towards the end with a few catches, was getting open easier than anyone other than Green). I think the fruitless running game is where the problems on O are stemming from. [b]You can't have a short yardage specialist as your featured back. Why didn't Peerman get more touches[/b] early on. [/quote] I've been saying/thinking this for months - since BJGE was signed and all last year re: Peerman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1350319279' post='1170953'] I dunno, I don't think I blame the refs, I blame our lackadaisical attitude on that drive. I believe the whistle blew at :15-14 seconds. That is more than enough time to run to the line and spike the ball. We jogged to the line and Dalton/Faine paused for a good 2 1/2 seconds under center before snapping the ball and bringing it all the way up to his shoulder to spike it down. I think there is a reasonable expectation of time loss from the moment the ball is dead to the moment the ref blows his whistle that is damn near 1 second. [/quote] oh I definitely think they had some issues early in that drive before they realized they could get something out of it. They had a bad first play, and I think they decided to run out the clock. Then they had a really good second play and decided to go for it. It doesn't erase the missed call though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 Tate and Binns are hurting us. Binns is dropping balls he should catch and I haven't seen him more than a 1 ft away from any defender since his TD pass. Tate blew the slant play, instead of muscling back to the ball and likely drawing a PI penalty he fell to the ground with a catching motion as Brown jumped the route and took it to the house. I think we are getting out-schemed big time and IMO the reasons are numerous: 1. If we run the ball on consecutive downs, one of the plays goes for less than 2 yards. 2. We lose momentum on 1st and second downs with bad drops and dumb penalties 3. We have no threats to gain big yardage on passes to the flats so the dump off has been non-existant. I want to kill myself for saying this but Dalton needs to act a bit like Flacco and check the fucking ball down more often. Opposing teams can play much deeper if they never have to make a tackle in the flat. 4. We don't throw over the middle save for 20 yards downfield. I'm wondering if its a combination of Dalton's inexperience and his height, like he's not trusting our guys to be in the right spot and other times can't actually see them. 5. We don't throw screen passes. 6. We just can't out execute the bad guys when a team knows whats coming. On D, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills but I swear our DL played mush-rush and contain all game long as if Vick was back there. I don't recall seeing all 4 DL going up feild at the same time. WTF is that? We had guys looping and running laterally but never up the middle. If we run a similar scheme this week Big Jen's numbers will be absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 I'm sure to some this sounds silly but I think at WR, Whelan deserves a shot. He's got the trust of Gruden and Dalton, he can get open, and would be a reliable option on 3rd down. Tough kid, can play some STs. He showed some things down the stretch last year... At least to me. Why not give him a shot? I love Marvin Jones' upside, but Whelan gives you some things they aren't getting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1350319697' post='1170958'] oh I definitely think they had some issues early in that drive before they realized they could get something out of it. They had a bad first play, and I think they decided to run out the clock. Then they had a really good second play and decided to go for it. [b]It doesn't erase the missed call though.[/b] [/quote] If you have access to the play, was the ball snapped with :01 or :02 on the clock? While it did hit the ground with :01 on the clock, if it wasn't snapped until :01 (which I believe is the case) then I don't think it reasonable to expect a snap, spike, whistle, signal, clock keeper stop the clock to happen in that length of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1350320627' post='1170972'] If you have access to the play, was the ball snapped with :01 or :02 on the clock? While it did hit the ground with :01 on the clock, if it wasn't snapped until :01 (which I believe is the case) then I don't think it reasonable to expect a snap, spike, whistle, signal, clock keeper stop the clock to happen in that length of time. [/quote] They showed the replay a number of times during the game and there was clearly 1 second left after the ball hits the ground. I'll check Rewind again in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1350320775' post='1170974'] They showed the replay a number of times during the game and there was clearly 1 second left after the ball hits the ground. [/quote] I get that, but the clock is based off the Ref's signal, not the ball hitting the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1350320881' post='1170975'] I get that, but the clock is based off the Ref's signal, not the ball hitting the ground [/quote] I'll look for the ref and see if he signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1350320881' post='1170975'] I get that, but the clock is based off the Ref's signal, not the ball hitting the ground [/quote] just rewatched it. The spike beats the clock, but the delay in the ref stopping his watch ran out the clock. He touches his wrist AS its changing from 1 to 0. Don't get why that isn't reviewable as the Bengals would have been given the one second. Also worth noting that there was pass intereference on the prior play (Green caught it anyway) that if correctly called would have stopped the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1350323312' post='1170999'] just rewatched it. The spike beats the clock, but the delay in the ref stopping his watch ran out the clock. He touches his wrist AS its changing from 1 to 0. Don't get why that isn't reviewable as the Bengals would have been given the one second. Also worth noting that there was pass intereference on the prior play (Green caught it anyway) that if correctly called would have stopped the clock. [/quote] Isn't the game clock that is kept up stairs by the game clock official the correct one? If you remember correctly, whenever there is a replay, the umpire has to look at the official clock up stairs that shows up on the monitor to set the time. That would be crazy if they used two different clocks for the game, yet only went by the umpires watch at the end of half or end of the game. It should have been reviewed, and the Bengal's a chance to kick a FG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1350319279' post='1170953'] I dunno, I don't think I blame the refs, I blame our lackadaisical attitude on that drive. I believe the whistle blew at :15-14 seconds. That is more than enough time to run to the line and spike the ball. We jogged to the line and Dalton/Faine paused for a good 2 1/2 seconds under center before snapping the ball and bringing it all the way up to his shoulder to spike it down. I think there is a reasonable expectation of time loss from the moment the ball is dead to the moment the ref blows his whistle that is damn near 1 second. I think it turned in that 9-10 play sequence of the AJ tipped ball INT to the big punt return to our subsequent 3 and out following the two FGs. I'd have to see the punt again to determine how egregious the running into the kicker was before I get upset by that. More upset by the poor coverage. [/quote] They fucked it up earlier than that. In that drive after the 2nd or third play they were in what the fuck mode and blew about 10 seconds as they tried to figure out if they were in hurry up mode or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abu-Zayd Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1350320212' post='1170966'] 3. I want to kill myself for saying this but Dalton needs to act a bit like Flacco and check the fucking ball down more often. Opposing teams can play much deeper if they never have to make a tackle in the flat. On D, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills but I swear our DL played mush-rush and contain all game long as if Vick was back there...We had guys looping and running laterally but never up the middle. [/quote] Good points. Dalton should use plays to set the defense. By screen passes and draws, you slow down pass rush. By throwing to the shallow middle, you draw your LB's closer. After a few of those, then you can attack the seams. Dline is the most talented but the stunts we run end up hurting us instead of getting penetration. We had 1 good stunt that I recall. Otherwise our guys went too wide and out of the play or just switched blockers and got caught up like in TecmoBowl. Maybe that's why Justin Smith just wanted to go one on one instead of the 'games'. Was the Dline coach still Hayes when Justin Smith was here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 The Good: I made a serviceable Skyline Chili meal. By 'I', I mean my wife. We also baptized a Bengals fan into official-ness, as he had never had Skyline before. Now he is legit. Father Elflacco was there to oversee the proceedings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 15, 2012 Report Share Posted October 15, 2012 [quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1350341144' post='1171142'] [b]Good points. Dalton should use plays to set the defense. By screen passes and draws, you slow down pass rush. By throwing to the shallow middle, you draw your LB's closer. After a few of those, then you can attack the seams.[/b] Dline is the most talented but the stunts we run end up hurting us instead of getting penetration. We had 1 good stunt that I recall. Otherwise our guys went too wide and out of the play or just switched blockers and got caught up like in TecmoBowl. Maybe that's why Justin Smith just wanted to go one on one instead of the 'games'. Was the Dline coach still Hayes when Justin Smith was here? [/quote] I mentioned this same thing in the Gameday thread. I honestly can't say how long it has been since I've seen a true draw play. The Bengals don't do well slowing down the pass rush. Instead of calling plays to slow down the pass rush, they started to roll out Dalton to give him less hands in his face. The Bengals started doing this after a few weeks ago and Dalton had all those tipped passes. The problem with rolling out Dalton, is he doesn't seem as natural doing it, and he lock on a guy and overlooks some wide open receivers. Dalton also seems to wait too long to get rid of the pass on the roll outs. In fact one of his interceptions this week came from a roll out that Dalton over threw Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 [quote name='Abu-Zayd' timestamp='1350341144' post='1171142'] Good points. Dalton should use plays to set the defense. By screen passes and draws, you slow down pass rush. By throwing to the shallow middle, you draw your LB's closer. After a few of those, then you can attack the seams. Dline is the most talented but the stunts we run end up hurting us instead of getting penetration. We had 1 good stunt that I recall. Otherwise our guys went too wide and out of the play or just switched blockers and got caught up like in TecmoBowl. Maybe that's why Justin Smith just wanted to go one on one instead of the 'games'. Was the Dline coach still Hayes when Justin Smith was here? [/quote] Yes, the Hayes brothers have been here as long as Marvin has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I think the Hayes brothers were meant to be "Hoffa'd" but Mike was so cheap he would only pay for enough concrete to cover their feet, so they are stuck as part of PBS and will be here forever and ever and ever and ever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350323569' post='1171004'] Isn't the game clock that is kept up stairs by the game clock official the correct one? If you remember correctly, whenever there is a replay, the umpire has to look at the official clock up stairs that shows up on the monitor to set the time. That would be crazy if they used two different clocks for the game, yet only went by the umpires watch at the end of half or end of the game. It should have been reviewed, and the Bengal's a chance to kick a FG. [/quote]Marvin would have had to throw the challenge flag to have it reviewed. They only review scoring plays without a challenge. We were out of time outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1350391454' post='1171223'] Marvin would have had to throw the challenge flag to have it reviewed. They only review scoring plays without a challenge. We were out of time outs. [/quote] unfortunately, its wasn't a reviewable play regardless. Why, I have no idea. I really wish they'd give the refs the power to review anything play they deem necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewdog Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 [quote name='SF2' timestamp='1350391454' post='1171223'] Marvin would have had to throw the challenge flag to have it reviewed. They only review scoring plays without a challenge. We were out of time outs. [/quote] I thought in the last 2 minutes of the first half and the end of the game, all replays have to come from upstairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 [quote name='Lewdog' timestamp='1350404659' post='1171279'] I thought in the last 2 minutes of the first half and the end of the game, all replays have to come from upstairs? [/quote] I thought so too, I said the same thing in the game day thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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