Slag911 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I wanted to attept to start a discussion on our running game and Andy Dalton. I felt like at times last year we leaned too heavily on Andy to save our offense at times when the running game failed. This was mostly during the playoff game and during the year when we played the tougher run defenses. I'm sure everyone felt the pain when we tried to run up the middle over and over again with little success. So my question is: with a more dynamic running game...courtesy of the draft (not free agency)...will this help Andy achieve the success in the passing game we need to win in the playoffs? I really think Andy is more talented then people give him credit and fared pretty well considering our lack of production in the running game last year. It is much harder to pass the ball around when defenses key in on this. I realize that Benjarvis did have some success for a portion of games and this is not a bashing session on him. I think he was worth the money spent but really is better inside running not for the outside the box game buster RB we lack. Will Andy be a better passer with a productive dynamic running game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slag911 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Side note: I also think the receiving corp did a good job considering the same issue. Still dropping balls though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Going down the stretch last season, and even into the playoff game, our running game WAS effective...when we used it. As much as Marvin touts the running game every off season, he sure is quick to abandon it in games where it's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 short answer: yes. I don't think it was a surprise that the passing game was at one of its best points last year when the running game was also working. As the running game gets more consistent, so will the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 But the answer to the OP is "of course". I'm under no illusions about BJGE. He's decent. But if you can acquire an honest playmaker at the position, you do it. Opens up all sorts of options in the playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Going down the stretch last season, and even into the playoff game, our running game WAS effective...when we used it. As much as Marvin touts the running game every off season, he sure is quick to abandon it in games where it's working. yep. 33 pass plays to 16 running plays in the playoff game. Green-Ellis averaged 5.7ypc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 yep. 33 pass plays to 16 running plays in the playoff game. Green-Ellis averaged 5.7ypc It was, and remains, a source of great frustration to me. We could have won that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 The problem with the running game is it isn't really good enough to keep defenses honest in my opinion.It may be effective at times,but there isn't a single player on our roster that Andy hands the ball off to that makes an opposing defensive coordinator nervous.No one with any cut back ability to stop an entire defense from flowing to the runner.No one that can catch the ball fluidly in stride a burn a defense. I think we need a guy that has all three-speed,receiving ability,and cut back ability.Defenses would have to account for him and play more honest.That makes every part of the offense better imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 It was, and remains, a source of great frustration to me. We could have won that game. We were pushing them about like ragdolls for the run, then they ran circles around us in pass blocking. I wanted them to run block, then have Andy pass - play action and see how that worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 The problem with the running game is it isn't really good enough to keep defenses honest in my opinion.It may be effective at times,but there isn't a single player on our roster that Andy hands the ball off to that makes an opposing defensive coordinator nervous.No one with any cut back ability to stop an entire defense from flowing to the runner.No one that can catch the ball fluidly in stride a burn a defense. I think we need a guy that has all three-speed,receiving ability,and cut back ability.Defenses would have to account for him and play more honest.That makes every part of the offense better imho. I wouldn't say that OCs don't care about stopping our run game - Pittsburgh was selling out to stop the run big-time in that last game, thus opening up the outside passing. A few more good breaks in the pass game and we blow that game open. On the other hand, if our D doesn't play lights out we don't win that game. That said, I want both the run and pass to be more consistent and effective so that tricks like that don't work. We should get some of that if we avoid injury at OL for a change, even more so if we draft help there. And while I'm not as hot for a 'game breaker' at RB we need more talent at the spot for sure. I don't much care if it is a quick back or a sledge hammer. Just give me 5 yards a carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigris Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 yep. 33 pass plays to 16 running plays in the playoff game. Green-Ellis averaged 5.7ypc Seems like we've seen that before. Bratkowski got us and then Gruden. What's with these guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Any QB will benefit from a good running game. We need to find a RB1 with some explosiveness but we also need an upgrade at WR2 to keep defenses honest and not always rolled toward AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texbengal Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 short answer: yes. I don't think it was a surprise that the passing game was at one of its best points last year when the running game was also working. As the running game gets more consistent, so will the passing game. I think that's true but we also can't discount what Sanu brought to this offense, too. Losing him took away another passing game option, third down threat, and more offensive balance. While he didn't catch a ton of balls, the plays he made really helped to keep the chains moving... in addition to the TDs he had. One of every 4 catches - that's a nice ratio. And third down conversion, even 3rd and short, was a challenge, seemingly for much of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I think that's true but we also can't discount what Sanu brought to this offense, too. Losing him took away another passing game option, third down threat, and more offensive balance. While he didn't catch a ton of balls, the plays he made really helped to keep the chains moving... in addition to the TDs he had. One of every 4 catches - that's a nice ratio. And third down conversion, even 3rd and short, was a challenge, seemingly for much of the year. Marvin recently remarked that there was only 15 minutes in one practice that we had all of Sanu, Marvin Jones, and Hawkins available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I think that's true but we also can't discount what Sanu brought to this offense, too. Losing him took away another passing game option, third down threat, and more offensive balance. While he didn't catch a ton of balls, the plays he made really helped to keep the chains moving... in addition to the TDs he had. One of every 4 catches - that's a nice ratio. And third down conversion, even 3rd and short, was a challenge, seemingly for much of the year. agreed and in general I think you can't discount growth by the offense as a whole. Green, Dalton, Sanu, Jones, Boling, Gresham, Zeitler, Robinson. All are young guys who still aren't playing their best ball yet. Part of why the Bengals aren't going nuts in free agency is because they are banking on all of those guys to continue to improve. Same with Dunlap, Burfict, Kirkpatrick, and MJ on defense. The team is banking on their young kids growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatcat Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 agreed and in general I think you can't discount growth by the offense as a whole. Green, Dalton, Sanu, Jones, Boling, Gresham, Zeitler, Robinson. All are young guys who still aren't playing their best ball yet. Part of why the Bengals aren't going nuts in free agency is because they are banking on all of those guys to continue to improve. Same with Dunlap, Burfict, Kirkpatrick, and MJ on defense. The team is banking on their young kids growing up. I was just looking at this very point. Here were the ages and experience at the start of '12 season: Age Exp Dalton 24 2 Green 24 2 Sanu 23 1 Jones 22 1 Hawkins 26 2 Gresham 24 3 Charles 21 1 Boling 23 2 Robinson22 1 Zeitler 22 1 That's 5 rookies, 4 2nd year guys and Gresham as a 3 year guy. That is a whole lot of youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueridge Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Seems like we've seen that before. Bratkowski got us and then Gruden. What's with these guys? They are experienced professionals. You aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiliMVP Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 They are experienced professionals. You aren't. Yeah there's never been an NFL coach who failed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 We still have too many sacks and Ints that can be avoided by the Qb. You can not roll out same ole Andy in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicoli Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Andy should never have to throw the ball more than 30x per game...when they can get a good enough running game to allow for that to happen on a consistent basis, they'll take the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Andy should never have to throw the ball more than 30x per game...when they can get a good enough running game to allow for that to happen on a consistent basis, they'll take the next step. I don't think Dalton throwing the ball more than 30 times is an issue. The issue is it shouldn't be a 2:1 ratio pass to run. Should be closer to 50/50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigboi Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Going down the stretch last season, and even into the playoff game, our running game WAS effective...when we used it. As much as Marvin touts the running game every off season, he sure is quick to abandon it in games where it's working. the run game was effective until Marvin and the coaching staff decide to take Robinson out and put kyle cook in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slag911 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Something to chew on but...I picture having a Corey Dillon type back (Maybe Montee Ball?) with what we have now and it seems easy to envision some playoff wins. Picture how bad the team was with Corey then and how great he really was. Bad teamate but man could he run the rock. It makes more sense how we struggled in the run with Bernard Scott out. The loss of Sanu too affected how we game planned since he would run the ball from time to time. Put one more exciting runner via the draft and both of them back and it really makes the offensive playbook open up a little. It seems Gruden does not get much credit for doing as well as he did with what he had to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slag911 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 We still have too many sacks and Ints that can be avoided by the Qb. You can not roll out same ole Andy in that regard. Agreed. This comes with having to hold the ball too long and making forced throws. Once again is this his fault or is it the lopsided playcalling? He seems forced into either holding the ball (or worse tucking it at the last minute and fumbling) or making a tight coverage throws. I would like to see more draws and some creative screen playcalls with someone like Scott or a draftee next year. I think Andy will prove to be a much better QB then his stats and how the media portrays him once they give him some RB help. I am not sure his will help at all with Andy's biggest issue - deep throws. It would be nice to see at least a few more "in stride" throws to AJ or Jones then what we saw last year. There was a lot of coming back to the ball and overthrows in each game in my opinion. Hopefully this could improve if he has more time to throw but geez sometimes it was painful to watch. Not as painful as watching 85 run the wrong route every other play though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldcat Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 the run game was effective until Marvin and the coaching staff decide to take Robinson out and put kyle cook in. That might have been it, but at the same moment our FB went down with an injury. Hard to say that cook was the sole cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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