Familiar faces greet defense

[Bengals1181]

With free agency slated to start Saturday, we take a look at the depth chart of the three units starting with the NFL’s third-ranked defense.

It lost its architect when Mike Zimmer became the head coach of the Vikings after the season. But a defense that gave up the fifth fewest points in franchise history returns relatively intact with the same playbook run by Zimmer’s aide de camp, former linebackers coach Paul Guenther.

The three most pressing issues are the status of free agent right end Michael Johnson, the rehab of tackleGeno Atkins and cornerback Leon Hall, and the age of the secondary. Keep in mind that in the recent past they don’t consider free agents from other teams much of an option until a few weeks into the process as they try to sign and extend their own first. And, at that point, free agency is for depth.

Developing sub-plots are tied up in some intriguing roster scrums and the heat that is going to be put on some recent high picks, such as 2012 second-rounder Devon Still and two from last season, third-rounderShawn Williams at safety and fourth-rounder Sean Porter at linebacker. And, how young will they go at backer? It’s believed James Harrison became their oldest Opening Day starter at linebacker ever last year when the 35-year-old beat out Reggie Williams by nine days.

(Denotes how many players the Bengals project to keep at this position on the 53-man roster and years of experience in 2014)

DEFENSIVE ENDS (4 or 5)

Starters: Michael Johnson (6), Carlos Dunlap (5)

Backups: Robert Geathers (11), Wallace Gilberry (7), Margus Hunt (2), David King (1)

Free agents: Johnson.

Johnson is the top priority to re-sign and they very nearly had a deal back in July before talks stalled and Dunlap ended up getting a very similar five-year, 40 million extension. Does the fact Johnson got $11 million as the franchise player help in a some kind of long-term deal, or is Johnson banking on a lot more than the Dunlap deal if he hits the market?

There’s a lot to admire in Johnson. Only Dunlap played more snaps on the line last season and while his ’12 sack total dipped from 11.5 to 3.5, he played all three downs, was huge against the run (where profootballfocus.com had him rated second among 4-3 ends last year), got his hand on nine passes, and is an impeccable leader.

If they can’t re-sign him, they’ve got a variety of options with people already here. They could move Dunlap, Geathers, or Hunt from left end to right end.  Dunlap and Gilberry each had 7.5 sacks last season with Gilberry playing about 50 percent of the time and occasionally moving inside. Dunlap ranked just behind Johnson in PFF’s run defense at No. 4.

Geathers turns 31 in August and missed all but two games last season with a shoulder injury, but he is no potential cap casualty with Johnson a question mark and Guenther talking about being more multiple up front. Zimmer and head coach Marvin Lewis have always held Geathers in high regard as a versatile guy that can play up and down the line while also not being afraid to get in the faces of the young guys. He looks ready to be cleared for the start of the April 21 offseason workouts.

Geathers and Gilberry are at their best in a rotation. Hunt, the highest-drafted D-end on the roster when he arrived in the second round last year, is just starting his sixth year of football and still has some ground to make up. But after playing in 10 games as a rookie he did appear to get better the more he got work.

At last month’s NFL scouting combine Guenther said the Bengals may have to go get someone to replace Johnson and it looks like there’ll be defensive ends at No. 24. But there is optimism they can make a late run and keep Johnson.

TACKLES (4 or 5)

Starters: Domata Peko (9), Geno Atkins (5)

Backups: Brandon Thompson (3), Devon Still (3), Christo Bilukidi (3), Larry Black (2), Ogemdi Nwagbuo (4),Zach Minter (2).

Free agents: None.

The last time we saw Atkins he was getting helped off the field in Miami Halloween night after he suffered a season-ending ACL injury. No one quite knows how his rehab is going because the big fella never has much to say. But Lewis said at the combine he expects him back for training camp, a must if this defense is going to get off the ground quickly.

Peko, who doesn’t turn 30 until late in the season, may have another extension in him. Some at Paul Brown Stadium thought he had one of his best years in 2013. They thought that Thompson showed up pretty well when he was forced to play for Atkins (particularly by showing a surprising pass rush at times) and he proved he’d play hurt, but his bum foot down the stretch hampered his production.

It’s a huge training camp for Still. After getting a not so private it’s-all-up-to-your-work-habits pep talk from Zimmer in training camp on Hard Knocks, a spate of injuries to his elbow and shoulder limited him to just 132 snaps in 2013.

Black, the Cincinnati product from Wyoming High School, is a guy to watch after he came out of Indiana undrafted last year. The hope is he’ll continue his encouraging play after suffering a gruesome dislocated ankle in training camp.

They usually keep nine defensive linemen with at least one inactive on game day. The more versatile, the better.

 LINEBACKERS (6)

Starters: WILL Vontaze Burfict (3), MLB Rey Maualuga (6), SAM James Harrison (11).

Backups: Michael Boley (10), Vincent Rey (4), Emmanuel Lamur (3), Jayson DiManche (2), J.K. Schaffer (2),Brandon Joiner (2), Sean Porter (2), Bruce Taylor (1).

Free agents: Boley (unrestricted); Rey (restricted)

Look for them to tender Rey, coming off his best year from scrimmage in the wake of season-ending injuries to Lamur and nickel backer Taylor Mays. But it’s doubtful they’ll go after Boley, turning 32 in training camp.

The Bengals could be looking for a shot of youth here with Harrison turning 36 the week before the draft. The Bengals are coming into the spring looking at a bunch of kids and the question is going to be, how young do they go?

 Lamur, who missed all last season with a shoulder injury, is projected to play the bulk of the snaps in a tandem with Burfict in the nickel and can project to back up SAM or WILL. Rey can play all four spots (including nickel) and they have yet to see much of Porter and Joiner, victims of season-ending injuries in training camp. DiManche, an undrafted rookie, made his mark as the second-leading special teams tackler, but he has to find consistency backing up SAM or WILL. Schaffer came off the practice squad and pumped in six teams tackle while also gaining some experience backing up the middle.

Linebacker is always among the most heated derbies on the roster during camp and this looks to be no different, particularly if they decide to keep only five like they did heading into last year’s Opening Day. But every cut is different. At the time they were banged up at safety and had to go heavy there, plus Mays was a swingman at safety and backer.

SECONDARY (10)

Cornerbacks: Staters: Leon Hall (7), Terence Newman (12).

Backups: Chris Crocker (12), Adam Jones (8), Dre Kirkpatrick (3), Brandon Ghee (5), Chris Lewis-Harris (2),Onterio McCalebb (1), Brandon Burton (4).

Free agents: Crocker (UFA), Ghee (UFA)

With Zimmer gone, it’s hard to see Crocker, turning 34 later this week, resurrecting a third straight September. They may try to get something done with Ghee, although he remains a bit of a mystery since they took him in the third round in 2010 and injuries have limited him to fewer than 100 NFL snaps from scrimmage. They may have a better read on Burton, a fifth-rounder from that same draft (Utah) with 29 games in the league, mostly with the Vikings.

Newman was having a superb year at age 35 before he suffered a season-ending knee injury late in the year and though his Zim-mentor is gone, he and Jones expect to be challenged by Vance Joseph, the Bengals’ highly-regarded new secondary coach. Joseph, a man-to-man maven, also has a project in Kirkpatrick, one of four first-round corners he’s been dealt. Kirkpatrick has shown flashes of his Grade A talent. When Newman went down, Kirkpatrick played well enough to keep the defense stingy. But they need him to be consistent with technique (the double move has become his bugaboo) and they think Joseph is just the kind of technician to get it out of him.

Hall quietly rolls along in rehab and the good news is he’s on pretty much the same track as two years ago when he tore his other Achilles’. The bad news is that he’s pretty much on the same track as two years ago when he tore his other Achilles. Can he possibly have as good a comeback as he did two years ago? So far, so good.

The age factor (they’ll have three corners of at least 30 when Hall turns The Big 3-0 late in the season), could be a factor in the draft, where they clearly don’t mind taking one in the first round. But given that it seems to be a pretty deep crop of reliable guys, they could get a guy that can help at any point in the first several rounds.

Safeties: Starters: Reggie Nelson (7), George Iloka (3).

Backups: Shawn Williams (2), Taylor Mays (5)

Free agents: Mays (UFA)

Mays is a guy they’d probably love to have back. Good guy with a big body, it’s important to him, and he takes up two spots as a nickel backer and safety.

With the return of a healthy Lamur and the emergence of a pair of younger safeties  (according to PFF Iloka led the team with 1,048 snaps and Williams led them in special teams tackles), they’re going to keep looking to upgrade.

They seek more turnovers from Iloka (one, pick, two forced fumbles last season), but here’s a guy that played the most snaps for one of the NFL’s best defenses and now has some valuable experience.

They’d like to get some depth back there and they’re hoping Williams plays better from scrimmage now that the rookie woes are gone. With no Crocker around to bounce between safety and corner, that could be a spot on the wish list. A run at a free agent around the draft may not be out of the question.

 

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Familiar-faces-greet-defense/2cc4c40f-8ec1-450b-8fbf-7dbe0b65185b

[Jason]

It feels like Peko has been around forever.  It's kind of hard to believe he is not 30 yet.

[big_dish]

It feels like Peko has been around forever.  It's kind of hard to believe he is not 30 yet.

 

I think he was only 20 when he drafted.. something like that? Or am I thinking of Geathers... cant remember.

[coup000]

If they extend Peko, I hope it is at a smaller cap charge than he currently carries. He needs to be a part time player at this point and be paid accordingly.

[texbengal]

I think he was only 20 when he drafted.. something like that? Or am I thinking of Geathers... cant remember.

Geathers.

[Bengals1181]

yea I think at one point Geathers was the youngest player in the history of the NFL.

 

Peko was 21 and 5 months.  He'll only just be 30 in November.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

If they extend Peko, I hope it is at a smaller cap charge than he currently carries. He needs to be a part time player at this point and be paid accordingly.

 

Didn't Peko like 2 yrs ago get a contract extension? 

[BengalsCat]

It feels like Peko has been around forever.  It's kind of hard to believe he is not 30 yet.

 i had to read that twice didnt quite believe it the first time. Feels like hes been the anchor on the dline forever.

[coup000]

 

Didn't Peko like 2 yrs ago get a contract extension? 

He signed a 5 year extension before the 2010 season, he's a free agent after this year. His cap hit this year is 4.2M and cutting him saves the entire 4.2M

[Le Tigre]

Peanuts for a pro's pro, and as solid an NFL DT as there is out there. 

[sparky151]

Peanuts for a pro's pro, and as solid an NFL DT as there is out there. 

Peko has been in decline for 3 straight years. He's moderately paid but probably not as good as Brandon Thompson. He may well be kept around as the Bengals seem to do but most teams would probably ask him to take a pay cut and release him if he declined. 

[Marvin]

Peko has been in decline for 3 straight years. He's moderately paid but probably not as good as Brandon Thompson. He may well be kept around as the Bengals seem to do but most teams would probably ask him to take a pay cut and release him if he declined.

That's cold.

Peko is not only the heart and soul of the defense (i.e. hardknocks, also refer to every single thing you've ever heard about him) but he had a damn fine year. Thompson is the young gun and if Peko was a complete shit bag, or even a moderate shit bag, I would totally agree. But that would be a gutting of the team.

[|kennethmw|]

Peko has been in decline for 3 straight years. He's moderately paid but probably not as good as Brandon Thompson. He may well be kept around as the Bengals seem to do but most teams would probably ask him to take a pay cut and release him if he declined. 

 

Is that your opinion, or do you have some form of stats to back that up?  The Stats I'm looking at on ESPN don't seem to reflect that. 

[Marvin]

Is that your opinion, or do you have some form of stats to back that up?  The Stats I'm looking at on ESPN don't seem to reflect that.

Stats don't illustrate Peko's value.

[sparky151]

That's cold.

Peko is not only the heart and soul of the defense (i.e. hardknocks, also refer to every single thing you've ever heard about him) but he had a damn fine year. Thompson is the young gun and if Peko was a complete shit bag, or even a moderate shit bag, I would totally agree. But that would be a gutting of the team.

Peko isn't the heart and soul of the defense. He's simply a guy who is popular with fans and team mates. Nothing wrong with that but Dunlap, Burfict, and Nelson are more important players to our success than Domata. Not to mention Geno and Leon. MJ is now in the middle of his career and if we keep him will be a leader. And of course we have the old guys in Geathers, Harrison, and Newman. If there's anything we shouldn't overpay for it's "leadership" on the defense. 

 

Ignoring his blocking role on offense, Peko got moved back more easily last year than previously. Thompson was a better player by year's end. He's also cheaper and has more upside. In terms of resource allocation, we'd be better off cutting Peko, drafting a DT, and using Peko's cap space to extend Burfict.

 

Is that your opinion, or do you have some form of stats to back that up?  The Stats I'm looking at on ESPN don't seem to reflect that. 

Mainly my opinion, though PFF agrees with me if you give them credence.

[Marvin]

Peko isn't the heart and soul of the defense. He's simply a guy who is popular with fans and team mates.

That's what I mean. It's not like he's making 8+ million. There are guys that can be sacrificed for salary, but given Peko's reasonable salary, universal likability, youth/veteranship, and on-field production, it seems to be a value contract. If the question was Peko or Thompson, one would have to favor up-side but, IMO, that's not the case.

[Bengals1181]

has been in decline for 3 straight years. He's moderately paid but probably not as good as Brandon Thompson. He may well be kept around as the Bengals seem to do but most teams would probably ask him to take a pay cut and release him if he declined.

Peko is arguably coming off the best two year stretch of his career.

[Oldcat]

That's why I like guys like Peko having a reasonable deal.  A replacement that is a sure thing to do his job would cost a lot more, so if he can make the roster he's worth the money.

 

If you divide the cap by the number of starters, 6 million is an average starter.

If you divide by the 53, then you have 2.5 or so per roster spot.

 

So 4 million isn't out of line even if he becomes a reserve.

[|Numbers|]

Peko is arguably coming off the best two year stretch of his career.

 

Not sure of the stats people are looking at.  Can you quote a source for the stats ?

[Bengals1181]

 

Not sure of the stats people are looking at.  Can you quote a source for the stats ?

 

 

I wasn't talking strictly stats, but here's a good source:  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9709/domata-peko

[|Numbers|]

I wasn't talking strictly stats, but here's a good source:  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9709/domata-peko

 

Guess it depends on how one looks at the stats and how much weight a person places on each category.

 

With the exception of sack total, everything else has been in decline or remaining relatively the same.  That is not saying he is bad or such, just saying that there is a certain amount of decline.

 

Were we not to look at stats, Peko is an on field motivator.  Every game I have been at, I watch Peko ( among others ).  The defense and fans seem to feed off his energy and frequent hand motions from Peko to raise the roof.  Others on defense may be motivators but Peko is one that I can count on to make motions visually.  I'd really like to hear him mic'd up for a game or two.

[Orange 'n Black]

Knowing Marvin's history with his leaders, there is about zero chance he gets cut. It's not even like Thornton where he was clearly in decline; Peko is still doing his job just fine.

[Oldcat]

 

Guess it depends on how one looks at the stats and how much weight a person places on each category.

 

With the exception of sack total, everything else has been in decline or remaining relatively the same.  That is not saying he is bad or such, just saying that there is a certain amount of decline.

 

Were we not to look at stats, Peko is an on field motivator.  Every game I have been at, I watch Peko ( among others ).  The defense and fans seem to feed off his energy and frequent hand motions from Peko to raise the roof.  Others on defense may be motivators but Peko is one that I can count on to make motions visually.  I'd really like to hear him mic'd up for a game or two.

 

It is notoriously hard to measure DT value with conventional stats.  They are often not the one to make the sack or tackle in a play they disrupt.

[|Numbers|]

 

It is notoriously hard to measure DT value with conventional stats.  They are often not the one to make the sack or tackle in a play they disrupt.

 

Agreed.  Perhaps the best stats available for accurately measuring a DT can be found at http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?year=2011&pos=DT&season=all

 

It includes a stat known as TF Tackle Factor http://www.advancednflstats.com/2010/03/tackle-factor.html along with others not normally found on regurgitated stats from NFL.com etc...

[BengalsCat]

 

It is notoriously hard to measure DT value with conventional stats.  They are often not the one to make the sack or tackle in a play they disrupt.

Completely agree. I see peko as more of a guy to try and eat up blocks so geno, burfict and the boys can do there thing. As far as peko being on the decline when I watched him in games I always saw him holding up well at the point of attack and I think thats exactly why we have him. A reasonable player that is well loved making a reasonable salary is fine by me and he probly will get extended at some point I would imagine at least for another year or 2. Unless tompson or still have the light go off for em. I have never been impressed by what ive seen out of either. But im not exactly watching the dt's every play either. Just a casual observation from watching the games last year.