Dautcom08 Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 The article is sound. We have to deal with it. Monumentally retarded move, however. I'll be happy is he proves me wrong but I'm expecting another disappointing postseason from Dalton (of we make it). Doesn't matter if it's just "two years". That's 2 years that could be spent truly competing. With who else at QB? Pretty easy to make that statement without stating any viable alternative option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 With who else at QB? Pretty easy to make that statement without stating any viable alternative option. Matt Schaub of course11!!!11. Actually, this team would actually be competing with journeyman Campbell or lame shoulder McCarron at the helm. Magic 8 ball says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Joe Flacco was a first round pick pre new CBA and already had gauranteed money of 8 mil and the final year of his deal paid him nearly 7 mil. Total value was 30 mil. Andy Dalton was 2nd round pick post new CBA and had a 4 year deal for nearly 7 mil. Flacco had more of a safety net to gamble on himself. Post new-CBA the cap did not grow and might have shrunk catching teams with bad deals that needed to be corrected. Baltimore had a bad cap situation, I believe estimates had them over the cap by about 5-9 million. They would have needed to clear 19 mil in cap space to tag Flacco. The Bengals had cap room available and were willing to use it to tag Dalton. These factors alone support the wait approach advocated by Schein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|High School Harry| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Is this another Andy Dalton pissing contest thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Again, give me the name of the viable alternative we could have starting in place of Andy even next year. Our defense will not land us in, "With the first pick of the NFL draft, the Cincinnati Bengals select....." territory. Camps are already open. Teams begin building rosters in March. You don't need to have a named replacement right now because first they had the tag and second there is always QBs that come available. Worse comes to worse Hue has to use his former QB that he brought to Cincinnati to be the immediate back up. There is every evidence in the world that if Andy caught lightning in a bottle like Flacco did in 2012, we would have been HOSED Except for the FACT Mike Brown said Andy would be the QB because the tag is an option. Which would give them 2016 offseason. It is also fact tagging him would have paid Andy less money than his new contract. Now don't get me wrong the new contract is good structure. However, waiting to sign Dalton does not doom you to a Flacco type deal. There is no evidence of that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Joe Flacco was a first round pick pre new CBA and already had gauranteed money of 8 mil and the final year of his deal paid him nearly 7 mil. Total value was 30 mil. Andy Dalton was 2nd round pick post new CBA and had a 4 year deal for nearly 7 mil. Flacco had more of a safety net to gamble on himself. Post new-CBA the cap did not grow and might have shrunk catching teams with bad deals that needed to be corrected. Baltimore had a bad cap situation, I believe estimates had them over the cap by about 5-9 million. They would have needed to clear 19 mil in cap space to tag Flacco. The Bengals had cap room available and were willing to use it to tag Dalton. These factors alone support the wait approach advocated by Schein. Andy was NOT going to be tagged since he is in the final year of his contract. Andy's agent KNOWS we have NO alternative on our roster unless you think a low 80s journeyman or a hurt rookie was a viable option. QBs don't get tagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.A.B. Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 With who else at QB? Pretty easy to make that statement without stating any viable alternative option. Someone you drafted? Have a QB competition and let the bet man win? Either way, odds are whoever it is couldn't put up worse playoff numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Maybe. Maybe not. What about the gm and his comments? Which GM was it? Here's what a respected guy said that he's willing to attach his name to .http://blogs.bengals.com/2012/10/12/bill-polian-one-of-my-biggest-regrets-is-not-drafting-dalton/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Someone you drafted? Have a QB competition and let the bet man win? Either way, odds are whoever it is couldn't put up worse playoff numbers. But he could certainly put up worse regular season numbers and NOT have to worry about playing well in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.A.B. Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 But he could certainly put up worse regular season numbers and NOT have to worry about playing well in the playoffs. Drafted someone and let them had a real competition. Or bring in a young FA. Let them duke it out. Not the typical veteran is the starter bullshit we typically pull. Have Andy Dalton compete with someone for the spot. There was no reason that Andy Dalton should have felt complete job security. He didn't deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 You don't need to have a named replacement right now because first they had the tag and second there is always QBs that come available. Most of your rants boil down to something an unnamed source said or advocating the Bengals turn to a QB to be named later. Schein on, you crazy diamond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Without getting into the specifics of the article, but more the mixed opinion from around the league on him. Its not hard to see why the board is the way it is on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 But he could certainly put up worse regular season numbers and NOT have to worry about playing well in the playoffs. I've never understood why people forget that. We have been to the playoffs 12 times in the history of the franchise, 4 times by Kenny A, twice by Boomer, twice by Palmer, once by Carter, and 3 times by Andy Dalton. So, 25% of our playoff Appearances in the HISTORY of the team, have occurred with Dalton under Center, in his first three years. I will admit, with the current Playoff structure, Anderson Probably would have gone a couple more times, But, historically, this has been one of the best three year stretches in Bengals history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Drafted someone and let them had a real competition. Or bring in a young FA. Let them duke it out. Not the typical veteran is the starter bullshit we typically pull. Have Andy Dalton compete with someone for the spot. There was no reason that Andy Dalton should have felt complete job security. He didn't deserve it. That is fine but that should have happened LAST YEAR. Water under the bridge. That is what San Diego did when they drafted Rivers. Brees had 2 years left. Even if you include this year, that game plan is dead with AJ McCarron hurting his shoulder and may have been the reason this deal was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Most of your rants boil down to something an unnamed source said or advocating the Bengals turn to a QB to be named later. Schein on, you crazy diamond. That's gold, Jerry, gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Correct, SF2. It's why I was advocating for a QB in the 1st round. They clearly didn't agree. But if you were not going to target trying to get a Bridgewater or Cocaine-qb guy at 24, then that meant they were siding with being okay with Dalton for several more years. Because the other alternatives at this point are shitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Andy was NOT going to be tagged since he is in the final year of his contract. Andy's agent KNOWS we have NO alternative on our roster unless you think a low 80s journeyman or a hurt rookie was a viable option. QBs don't get tagged. It's an option they had and Mike Brown clearly pointed to it. That fact alone gives them alternatives to not ending up with a Flacco deal. The alternative of Campbell is more of a solution vs. what Baltimore had. Baltimore had to clear cap space around 19 mil to use the tag. It is these factors along with Flacco's own post season performance that helped him land that contract. The accurate disagreement with Schein's opinion is not your viewpoint. The accurate contrasting viewpoint is the FACT Baltimore was FORCED into waiting because Flacco was a former first round pick with a rookie 30 mil dollar deal already and did not agree with the offer on the table and Flacco's agents new the tag was going to be tough for them to use regardless of Flacco's post season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I've never understood why people forget that. We have been to the playoffs 12 times in the history of the franchise, 4 times by Kenny A, twice by Boomer, twice by Palmer, once by Carter, and 3 times by Andy Dalton. So, 25% of our playoff Appearances in the HISTORY of the team, have occurred with Dalton under Center, in his first three years. I will admit, with the current Playoff structure, Anderson Probably would have gone a couple more times, But, historically, this has been one of the best three year stretches in Bengals history. Man I can not disagree with this. Damn good point brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Most of your rants boil down to something an unnamed source said or advocating the Bengals turn to a QB to be named later. Schein on, you crazy diamond. When Tebow led the Broncos to a playoff victory did they have any idea Peyton Manning would be the QB next season? Qbs being available in March not August and Franchise Tags aren't rants, it's the NFL system that NFL fans should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 It's an option they had and Mike Brown clearly pointed to it. That fact alone gives them alternatives to not ending up with a Flacco deal. The alternative of Campbell is more of a solution vs. what Baltimore had. Baltimore had to clear cap space around 19 mil to use the tag. It is these factors along with Flacco's own post season performance that helped him land that contract. The accurate disagreement with Schein's opinion is not your viewpoint. The accurate contrasting viewpoint is the FACT Baltimore was FORCED into waiting because Flacco was a former first round pick with a rookie 30 mil dollar deal already and did not agree with the offer on the table and Flacco's agents new the tag was going to be tough for them to use regardless of Flacco's post season. Baltimore could have given him a non exclusive franchise tag and let other teams set the price. I seriously doubt any team would have offered Flacco what he is currently getting paid now. Even so, they would have gotten 2 first round picks out of the deal instead of what they are currently facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 That is fine but that should have happened LAST YEAR. Water under the bridge. That is what San Diego did when they drafted Rivers. Brees had 2 years left. Even if you include this year, that game plan is dead with AJ McCarron hurting his shoulder and may have been the reason this deal was done. No it isn't. You tag Andy. Securing him for the 2015 season or giving you the opportunity to acquire draft picks for replacement. Your no alternative approach is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 When Tebow led the Broncos to a playoff victory did they have any idea Peyton Manning would be the QB next season? Qbs being available in March not August and Franchise Tags aren't rants, it's the NFL system that NFL fans should know. Yes, they did. Insiders already knew Manning was not going to remain in Indy to help rebuild the franchise, hell EVERYONE knew it and Manning signed BEFORE THE DRAFT. And the Manning example is a straw man argument regardless. Unless you want to include Alex Smith who had a viable replacement in the wings, just how often do these guys become available? Give me a team with a franchise QB on their roster right now that might be letting him go next spring and explain why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.A.B. Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I've never understood why people forget that. We have been to the playoffs 12 times in the history of the franchise, 4 times by Kenny A, twice by Boomer, twice by Palmer, once by Carter, and 3 times by Andy Dalton. So, 25% of our playoff Appearances in the HISTORY of the team, have occurred with Dalton under Center, in his first three years. I will admit, with the current Playoff structure, Anderson Probably would have gone a couple more times, But, historically, this has been one of the best three year stretches in Bengals history. Have any of those guys lost 3 playoff trips in a row while putting up historically pathetic numbers in them? If you're gonna keep bringing up him going to the playoffs I'm gonna keep bringing up how he performed in them. I do not CARE how good of a stretch in Benglas history it is. Stop attributing it to Andy like he has more to do with the team's success than his actual team. He is a cog in the machine that allows the team to be great when he does not fuck up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|SF2| Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 No it isn't. You tag Andy. Securing him for the 2015 season or giving you the opportunity to acquire draft picks for replacement. Your no alternative approach is not true. Give me the name of past QBs that were tagged. If Andy had a good year, his agent would let it be well known Andy wouldn't play under the tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unleashed Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 I've never understood why people forget that. We have been to the playoffs 12 times in the history of the franchise, 4 times by Kenny A, twice by Boomer, twice by Palmer, once by Carter, and 3 times by Andy Dalton. So, 25% of our playoff Appearances in the HISTORY of the team, have occurred with Dalton under Center, in his first three years. I will admit, with the current Playoff structure, Anderson Probably would have gone a couple more times, But, historically, this has been one of the best three year stretches in Bengals history. Aaaand cue the people talking about how Dalton should have done better with the team around him. I'm definitely on the side that thinks this is the best move the franchise could have made short term. Let him keep growing as a QB for a couple years and then make the tough decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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