Richie Incognito?

[esjbh2]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

 I think it’s obvious to everyone, it was caused by his many concussions. The NFL is responsible and needs to take care of his medical bills. 

...but...but...but...Inigo stated that he issues during his college years.  You sure you wanna blame the NFL for all that?  That's why I wasn't so quick to judge the NFL as the sole responsible party.  I'm not saying that CTE in the pro's and the NFL's negligence aren't also involved, but it seems there was also a pre-existing disposition/condition.

 

I do agree that Burdock will somehow get a suspension outta this though...that's a given.

[|SF2|]

8 hours ago, esjbh2 said:

...but...but...but...Inigo stated that he issues during his college years.  You sure you wanna blame the NFL for all that?  That's why I wasn't so quick to judge the NFL as the sole responsible party.  I'm not saying that CTE in the pro's and the NFL's negligence aren't also involved, but it seems there was also a pre-existing disposition/condition.

 

I do agree that Burdock will somehow get a suspension outta this though...that's a given.

CTE starts in High School. Troglodyte coaches teaching kids to lead with helmet and deliver knock out blows to the head.  Probably had 12 players from our high school go thru concussion protocol last year due to dirtbag coaches in other programs.

[|SF2|]

8 hours ago, esjbh2 said:

...but...but...but...Inigo stated that he issues during his college years.  You sure you wanna blame the NFL for all that?  That's why I wasn't so quick to judge the NFL as the sole responsible party.  I'm not saying that CTE in the pro's and the NFL's negligence aren't also involved, but it seems there was also a pre-existing disposition/condition.

 

I do agree that Burdock will somehow get a suspension outta this though...that's a given.

CTE starts in High School. Troglodyte coaches teaching kids to lead with helmet and deliver knock out blows to the head.  Probably had 12 players from our high school go thru concussion protocol last year due to dirtbag coaches in other programs.

[UncleEarl]

2 hours ago, SF2 said:

CTE starts in High School. Troglodyte coaches teaching kids to lead with helmet and deliver knock out blows to the head.  Probably had 12 players from our high school go thru concussion protocol last year due to dirtbag coaches in other programs.

Our HS coaches used to slap people in the head and grab people by the facemask. 

 

All this CTE stuff starts early it appears, but Incognito may just have more than his share of mental health issues as well. 

[Rick]

11 hours ago, Bunghole said:

I thought it was steroids?

CTE. Read the whole thread.

[|schotzee|]

22 minutes ago, Rick said:

CTE. Read the whole thread.

Not saying it's not true, but until brain is examined, I think it's all speculation.

[Rick]

21 minutes ago, schotzee said:

Not saying it's not true, but until brain is examined, I think it's all speculation.

And that is what the nfl is saying, too.

[Inigo Montoya]

12 hours ago, esjbh2 said:

...but...but...but...Inigo stated that he issues during his college years.  You sure you wanna blame the NFL for all that?  That's why I wasn't so quick to judge the NFL as the sole responsible party.  I'm not saying that CTE in the pro's and the NFL's negligence aren't also involved, but it seems there was also a pre-existing disposition/condition.

 

I do agree that Burdock will somehow get a suspension outta this though...that's a given.

It's called the legal theory of deep pockets.  In other words, you sue whoever has the most money to get the largest settlement.  No doubt CTE starts well before a player enters the NFL, but that part doesn't help the lawyers who want to get paid so it's left out.

[Le Tigre]

15 hours ago, esjbh2 said:

Basically all the concussion stuff that's being discussed with athletes...more specifically:

 

Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) is a degenerative brain disease found in athletes, military veterans, and others with a history of repetitive brain trauma. In CTE, a protein called Tau forms clumps that slowly spread throughout the brain, killing brain cells.

 

Sad story really.  He obviously needs some serious help regardless of when it started and/or what caused it.

I represent certain school districts in Ohio for liability litigation against them. This is a mounting base-line reasoning for sports concussion cases. There is a pending Ohio Supreme Court case which is attempting to galvanized the premise of CTE--and the supposed failure of athletic departments to remedy concussion exposures--as a basis for liability. It is somewhat like the Junior Seau/NFL case--in that the subject-plaintiff was dead before the presence of CTE was known--but is looking to add more responsibility on the athletic departments to do more to prevent repetitive head traumas in all sports. 

 

I have seen attorneys for injured HS athletes attempt to include actual presence of CTE for their clients in their basis form "permanent injury". It is such a new frontier subject, that proof of CTE existing in younger athletes, is problematic for all sides in dispute. However, we all agree that much more can be done to limit exposures and take care of already-injured athletes. Some districts around the state are eliminating football and even some other "contact sports". Draconian, but perhaps necessary long-term.          

[|SF2|]

2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

I represent certain school districts in Ohio for liability litigation against them. This is a mounting base-line reasoning for sports concussion cases. There is a pending Ohio Supreme Court case which is attempting to galvanized the premise of CTE--and the supposed failure of athletic departments to remedy concussion exposures--as a basis for liability. It is somewhat like the Junior Seau/NFL case--in that the subject-plaintiff was dead before the presence of CTE was known--but is looking to add more responsibility on the athletic departments to do more to prevent repetitive head traumas in all sports. 

 

I have seen attorneys for injured HS athletes attempt to include actual presence of CTE for their clients in their basis form "permanent injury". It is such a new frontier subject, that proof of CTE existing in younger athletes, is problematic for all sides in dispute. However, we all agree that much more can be done to limit exposures and take care of already-injured athletes. Some districts around the state are eliminating football and even some other "contact sports". Draconian, but perhaps necessary long-term.          

The problem is COACHING.  50% of the current coaches are all from the Oklahoma drill send the little guy out during practice to get fucked up crowd.   They teach going for knock out blows while gang tackling, blind side shots on kick off returns and diving at knees at the line of scrimmage.  They celebrate knocking opponents out of games with cheap shots away from the ball and they always teach to get your helmet in there for maximum impact.   Been around enough of these idiots when my kid played Pee Wee and freshman year. 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, SF2 said:

The problem is COACHING.  50% of the current coaches are all from the Oklahoma drill send the little guy out during practice to get fucked up crowd.   They teach going for knock out blows while gang tackling, blind side shots on kick off returns and diving at knees at the line of scrimmage.  They celebrate knocking opponents out of games with cheap shots away from the ball and they always teach to get your helmet in there for maximum impact.   Been around enough of these idiots when my kid played Pee Wee and freshman year. 

 

What do ppl think those buckeye stickers are awarded for anyway?  Parallel parking?

[UncleEarl]

9 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

I represent certain school districts in Ohio for liability litigation against them. This is a mounting base-line reasoning for sports concussion cases. There is a pending Ohio Supreme Court case which is attempting to galvanized the premise of CTE--and the supposed failure of athletic departments to remedy concussion exposures--as a basis for liability. It is somewhat like the Junior Seau/NFL case--in that the subject-plaintiff was dead before the presence of CTE was known--but is looking to add more responsibility on the athletic departments to do more to prevent repetitive head traumas in all sports. 

 

I have seen attorneys for injured HS athletes attempt to include actual presence of CTE for their clients in their basis form "permanent injury". It is such a new frontier subject, that proof of CTE existing in younger athletes, is problematic for all sides in dispute. However, we all agree that much more can be done to limit exposures and take care of already-injured athletes. Some districts around the state are eliminating football and even some other "contact sports". Draconian, but perhaps necessary long-term.          

I know a neurologist who treats concussions and has even been sent NFL players.  He will flat out tell you they really don't know what is going on, how people develop post-concussion syndrome or CTE.  He says they are using their very primitive understanding of the diseases to try to treat their unfortunate patients.  It is always sad and scary when the legal profession steps in and acts  like they know what is happening and what needs to be done before the experts even know what is going on.

[UncleEarl]

9 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

I represent certain school districts in Ohio for liability litigation against them. This is a mounting base-line reasoning for sports concussion cases. There is a pending Ohio Supreme Court case which is attempting to galvanized the premise of CTE--and the supposed failure of athletic departments to remedy concussion exposures--as a basis for liability. It is somewhat like the Junior Seau/NFL case--in that the subject-plaintiff was dead before the presence of CTE was known--but is looking to add more responsibility on the athletic departments to do more to prevent repetitive head traumas in all sports. 

 

I have seen attorneys for injured HS athletes attempt to include actual presence of CTE for their clients in their basis form "permanent injury". It is such a new frontier subject, that proof of CTE existing in younger athletes, is problematic for all sides in dispute. However, we all agree that much more can be done to limit exposures and take care of already-injured athletes. Some districts around the state are eliminating football and even some other "contact sports". Draconian, but perhaps necessary long-term.          

I know a neurologist who treats concussions and has even been sent NFL players.  He will flat out tell you they really don't know what is going on, how people develop post-concussion syndrome or CTE.  He says they are using their very primitive understanding of the diseases to try to treat their unfortunate patients.  It is always sad and scary when the legal profession steps in and acts  like they know what is happening and what needs to be done before the experts even know what is going on.

[thezerawkid]

2 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

I know a neurologist who treats concussions and has even been sent NFL players.  He will flat out tell you they really don't know what is going on, how people develop post-concussion syndrome or CTE.  He says they are using their very primitive understanding of the diseases to try to treat their unfortunate patients.  It is always sad and scary when the legal profession steps in and acts  like they know what is happening and what needs to be done before the experts even know what is going on.

Really? 

 

I mean, I admit I am not an expert on the matter, but isn’t there an empirical mountain of information that points to the fact that, in overwhelming numbers, men who play football at high levels have brain conditions that are considered, at the very least, to be abnormal? Regardless of what the informed and studied conclusion is, or what verbiage is eventually decided upon, examinations of these guys are showing that something just isn’t right with, pretty much all of them.

[thezerawkid]

2 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

I know a neurologist who treats concussions and has even been sent NFL players.  He will flat out tell you they really don't know what is going on, how people develop post-concussion syndrome or CTE.  He says they are using their very primitive understanding of the diseases to try to treat their unfortunate patients.  It is always sad and scary when the legal profession steps in and acts  like they know what is happening and what needs to be done before the experts even know what is going on.

Really? 

 

I mean, I admit I am not an expert on the matter, but isn’t there an empirical mountain of information that points to the fact that, in overwhelming numbers, men who play football at high levels have brain conditions that are considered, at the very least, to be abnormal? Regardless of what the informed and studied conclusion is, or what verbiage is eventually decided upon, examinations of these guys are showing that something just isn’t right with, pretty much all of them.

[UncleEarl]

Just now, thezerawkid said:

Really? 

 

I mean, I admit I am not an expert on the matter, but isn’t there an empirical mountain of information that points to the fact that, in overwhelming numbers, men who play football at high levels have brain conditions that are considered, at the very least, to be abnormal? Regardless of what the informed and studied conclusion is, or what verbiage is eventually decided upon, examinations of these guys are showing that something just isn’t right with, pretty much all of them.

It isn't all of them.  Why do some people develop CTE and some don't?  Why do some people recover from concussions and others suffer with post concussion syndrome?  Sure, we are pretty sure that contact sports are risky and can lead to these problems, but what to do?  Is it really best to have lawyers with settlement breath define the correct process for prevention or treatment, or should we actually allow the the people that know the most about it come up with some kind of consensus?

[UncleEarl]

WTF is wrong with this software? 

[UncleEarl]

A lawyer trying to get $$ claiming that a living teen or 20-something has CTE is outrageous.  There is no way in hell to prove that.  "Well, he was fine before he started playing football."  Sure.  Maybe, or maybe he started developing mental illness in his late teens or early 20s which is the most common time for that to occur.  Unfortunately, some smooth talking lawyer could convince a jury of morons that it was logical even though there are no facts what so ever to support such a claim.  As a result a school district gets raked over the coals and we all lose.  The kid with mental issues doesn't win.  The only winner is the guy that gets paid.

[|SF2|]

28 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

A lawyer trying to get $$ claiming that a living teen or 20-something has CTE is outrageous.  There is no way in hell to prove that.  "Well, he was fine before he started playing football."  Sure.  Maybe, or maybe he started developing mental illness in his late teens or early 20s which is the most common time for that to occur.  Unfortunately, some smooth talking lawyer could convince a jury of morons that it was logical even though there are no facts what so ever to support such a claim.  As a result a school district gets raked over the coals and we all lose.  The kid with mental issues doesn't win.  The only winner is the guy that gets paid.

Welcome to America.

[Le Tigre]

1 hour ago, UncleEarl said:

A lawyer trying to get $$ claiming that a living teen or 20-something has CTE is outrageous.  There is no way in hell to prove that.  "Well, he was fine before he started playing football."  Sure.  Maybe, or maybe he started developing mental illness in his late teens or early 20s which is the most common time for that to occur.  Unfortunately, some smooth talking lawyer could convince a jury of morons that it was logical even though there are no facts what so ever to support such a claim.  As a result a school district gets raked over the coals and we all lose.  The kid with mental issues doesn't win.  The only winner is the guy that gets paid.

Welcome to my world. It is unfortunate that, as you have said, the legal arena has begun promulgating possibles into accepted science--when the science is still anything but. We have hired some of the most knowledgeable and experienced medical experts in the field for testimony in cases. But even they can only answer in statements such as "with the data we have presently..." The plaintiffs' experts can scarcely come up with anything better. So, you throw a mish-mash of "maybe's" at a judge/jury...who knows what you will get? 

 

But to SF's astute point as to coaching: things are getting better to degree. The mandates the Ohio High School Athletic Association have put in--such as limits on padded practices, certain practice drills (a case we recently encountered--very much like our old Oklahoma experiences), equipment, etc. have made gains--at least optically--towards greater young athlete safety. And this does not just extend to football...soccer, hockey--even basketball--are scrutinized. 

 

Hopefully, as science and technology get more familiar with the effects of head trauma, real appropriate and real effective changes can be made.

[T-Dub]

FWIW, my high school coaches taught us "eyes up" proper tackling.  We also had one of those medieval torture-looking head in a vise things for strengthening your neck.  We hated that thing as much as flutter kicks.

[|SF2|]

2 hours ago, T-Dub said:

FWIW, my high school coaches taught us "eyes up" proper tackling.  We also had one of those medieval torture-looking head in a vise things for strengthening your neck.  We hated that thing as much as flutter kicks.

I loved that thing, it would make the veins pop out of your neck like you were some kind of Borg!

[|Bunghole|]

17 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

 It is unfortunate that, as you have said, the legal arena has begun promulgating possibles into accepted science--when the science is still anything but. We have hired some of the most knowledgeable and experienced medical experts in the field for testimony in cases. But even they can only answer in statements such as "with the data we have presently..." The plaintiffs' experts can scarcely come up with anything better. So, you throw a mish-mash of "maybe's" at a judge/jury...who knows what you will get? 

 

 

1

Sounds almost like the introduction of reasonable doubt in reverse.

[Le Tigre]

In civil law, it is only preponderance of evidence--and the term "evidence" can be a wobbly one. In cases such as these, the allegation  is as simple as: "I am hurt, and you were the cause of it". The remedy is not punishment (other than punitive damages), rather compensation. 

 

Yes, I used to wonder where the "Justice" came into play...then finally came to the realization that the civil arena is not based in "Justice" but "equity". 

[|Numbers|]

11 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

"I am hurt, and you were the cause of it".

Who or what is usually deemed "the cause"  ?  School, school system, coach, another player on same or opposing team, equipment manufacturer, etc...  or all the above or whomever has the most money...