No surprises when ranking the top QBs in the NFL - Scouts Inc.

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]No surprises when ranking the top QBs in the NFL[/b][/size]
By Matt Williamson
Scouts Inc.


The Patriots with Tom Brady and the Colts with Peyton Manning are the obvious choices at No. 1 and No. 2, respectively. Should the Cowboys with Tony Romo be in the top five? Do the Giants with Eli Manning, who was the Super Bowl MVP, deserve to be in the top 10? The answers may surprise you.

1. New England Patriots
There are only two teams in the running for this honor, and we gave Brady the slight nod over Manning simply because Brady has more Super Bowl rings and surpassed Manning's touchdown record this past season. Both quarterbacks just keep getting better and better as they one-up each other. Brady put together an unheard of 50-to-8 touchdown-to-interception ratio last season while leading his team to a perfect regular-season record. His production did fall off over the last six games of the regular season, but overall, Brady was simply terrific once again. He is a tremendous competitor without a conscience.

Matt Cassel is Brady's backup, but in a somewhat shocking move, the Patriots used the 94th overall selection in the 2008 draft on Kevin O'Connell from San Diego State, which isn't exactly known as a football factory. The Patriots never do anything on a whim, so this selection warrants watching over the next several years. Cassel had better watch his back.


2. Indianapolis Colts
We all are extremely fortunate to be able to watch both Brady and Manning in the prime of their illustrious careers. Few have done it as well, and it isn't far fetched to think these two future Hall of Famers will go down as the two best players to ever play the most important position on the football field. It is almost criminal to be forced to choose between these two, and finding weaknesses in either Brady's or Manning's overall game is an extremely difficult, cumbersome chore. As great as Brady is, no player in the league means more to his team than Manning.

Jim Sorgi is Manning's backup and has been since 2004. He knows the system and holds a clipboard as well as anyone in recent memory, but if Manning were, for whatever reason, to miss the season, Indianapolis would be lucky to win five games. Fortunately and amazingly, Manning has started every game for this franchise in the past 10 years and has thrown 168 touchdowns over the past five, never dipping below 26 per season since joining the league. Manning is a machine.


[b]3. Pittsburgh Steelers[/b] WTF?
It is becoming clear that Ben Roethlisberger is the next-best quarterback. Physically, he is the prototype for the position. He gets the most out of his natural gifts with his uncanny ability to buy extra time in the pocket and use his powerful right arm to drive the ball downfield when a play breaks down. He is an excellent deep thrower and is difficult to get on the ground; although he takes too many sacks in an effort to make the big play, he is better than anyone once the script goes out the window. He forces secondaries to cover much longer than they are accustomed to.

As a rookie, he led the Steelers to a 15-1 record. In his second year, he led the Steelers to a win in the Super Bowl. After a motorcycle accident, 2006 was a bit of a wash, but he rebounded in a huge way in 2007 and usually was the best player on the field. Few quarterbacks have accomplished so much so quickly. Backup Charlie Batch cannot be overlooked in this conversation, because he has proved he can lead the Steelers to victory when Roethlisberger is sidelined -- although the Steelers become much more conservative with Batch in the game. With Roethlisberger's aggressive play and the punishment he takes, having a trusted backup is paramount for Pittsburgh.


4. New Orleans Saints
While the Saints' group of weapons and coach Sean Payton get a lot of credit for New Orleans' high-powered offense, QB Drew Brees makes this group look better than it is. For some reason, he usually isn't mentioned among the top signal-callers in the league after Brady and Manning, but that is a massive mistake. He is cerebral and tough and has pinpoint accuracy. Brees doesn't wow you from a physical standpoint, but he understands the game, is in the prime of his career and gets the ball out of his hands on time to a variety of options. He takes very few sacks.

Brees struggled mightily during the first four games of this past season but rebounded in a big way, throwing 27 touchdowns in the last 12 games. Only Brady threw for more yardage than the pass-happy Brees. Behind him, New Orleans has a pair of lefties in veteran Mark Brunell and youngster Tyler Palko. Both are heady and tough but lack big arms, which isn't a major drawback in this offense. Still, Brees is far and away the most indispensable player on New Orleans' roster and a top signal-caller in this league.


[size=3][b]5. Cincinnati Bengals[/b][/size]
Few players in the league can spin the football like Carson Palmer. He is an elite talent who throws the football as well as any quarterback in recent memory. He has great size and a tremendous arm and is deadly accurate. He is tough and competitive and never has missed a start. While his surrounding circumstances have not been ideal, he also must do a better job of playing within himself and not putting the burden of the entire team on his shoulders. He has dealt with a somewhat dysfunctional situation in Cincinnati, including poor route running, suspect pass protection and lack of a rushing attack, all of which has had a negative effect on the team. Since he has forced throws when he has felt he must do it all himself, he has turned over the ball with too much regularity the past two seasons. Palmer can be as good as anyone on this list but could drop if he doesn't get his team on track.

The addition of TE Ben Utecht could pay heavy dividends because he is capable of being a force over the middle and near the end zone. Defenses were able to focus their attention on the perimeter last year, but this year should be different. Expect a big rebound season from Palmer and for him to exceed 4,000 yards through the air for the third straight year -- unless the wheels fall off this entire organization.

Ryan Fitzpatrick is the top backup. He showed flashes while in St. Louis, but he has yet to start a game in a Bengals uniform and clearly would be a massive downgrade from Palmer. Fitzpatrick is smart and could be an adequate caretaker quarterback at best, but the Bengals do not have the rushing attack to make that work and are reliant on Palmer's right arm.


6. Dallas Cowboys
Romo threw for 4,211 yards this past season and completed 36 touchdown passes. The numbers he put together went more unnoticed than they should have because of what Brady was doing in New England, but Romo lit up the scoreboard. His winning percentage as a starting quarterback is stunning. So why aren't the Cowboys' quarterbacks ranked higher? First off, Romo is surrounded by a lot of talent and has yet to win a playoff game in his two seasons behind center. All of that blame cannot be thrust on Romo alone, but he does need to prove he can elevate the play of his team in crucial situations to be ranked among the top players at this position.

Also, we would like to see a bigger overall body of work. He sees the field very well, is light on his feet in avoiding pressure and doesn't hesitate to push the ball deep downfield. He threw 19 interceptions last year, but eight of those picks came in two games, which shows he still is hit or miss. His pension for fading down the stretch certainly is worrisome, and he faces a brutal schedule in 2008. While Romo is just getting started, backup Brad Johnson's best days are long behind him, and a young signal-caller needs to be groomed.


7. Philadelphia Eagles
Coming off an ACL injury, Donovan McNabb was a shell of himself during the first half of the 2007 season. He was immobile and unable to create plays with his feet or avoid the rush, but he also didn't stride into his throws in the pocket like he had in the past. Clearly, he was not confident in his rebuilt knee. The second half of the season was a different story, though, as his knee healed and he became more trusting of it. Even with his early season struggles, McNabb threw only seven interceptions in Andy Reid's pass-happy attack. Few value the football as well.

Expect McNabb to continue his fine play in 2008, as the Eagles will face an easier schedule and he should have plenty of familiar weapons to distribute the ball to. TE L.J. Smith's return should help in the red zone, which was a major problem area last year. His best running days are behind him, but he has a great understanding of this offense and is an intelligent distributor of the football.

Bolstering the overall rank of the Eagles' quarterbacks is Kevin Kolb, who is waiting for his turn behind McNabb. While it is unclear when Kolb will get his shot at live action, he is a fine prospect who should flourish in this offense. A.J. Feeley also is one of the best No. 3 quarterbacks in the league today. Expect McNabb to perform like a Pro Bowler this upcoming year, but his injury history is concerning, so this quarterback depth is essential.


8. Jacksonville Jaguars
Jack Del Rio made an extremely bold move right before the 2007 season by releasing Byron Leftwich and inserting David Garrard as his starting quarterback -- and wow, did it ever pay off. While he benefits from an excellent ground attack, Garrard has become an ultra-efficient signal-caller who keeps plays alive with his legs while combining good decision-making and accuracy. He missed time with a high ankle sprain but posted respectable numbers as a first-year starter who threw only three interceptions on the season. In fact, based on the 11 full games in which he played, Garrard was on pace to throw for more than 3,500 yards while spreading the ball to many options.

Few realized just how good Garrard was a year ago, and he now is far more than just a caretaker. He could improve on his game-management skills, but remember, he is just a one-year starter and does show good overall poise and intelligence despite the lack of starting experience. He also is clearly the leader of this team and has all the faith of his teammates, his coaches and the front office. A full offseason as the starter, along with a lucrative new contract, will do Garrard a world of good. With new receivers on board, expect the Jaguars to go deep more this season. Cleo Lemon is the backup and a slightly above-average one at that. Jacksonville is well equipped at the position.


9. Seattle Seahawks
This past season, the Seahawks lacked a running game they could rely on, and Mike Holmgren chose to put the offense squarely on Matt Hasselbeck's shoulders. He didn't disappoint, throwing for 3,966 yards while being intercepted only 12 times. Hasselbeck is an excellent decision-maker and can be aggressive without sacrificing accuracy. His toughness often goes overlooked, and he regularly plays with pain. However -- and this doesn't distract from Hasselbeck's ranking on this list -- Seattle's weaponry isn't anywhere near what it was a year ago. And it is questionable whether the running game has been much improved.

Even more stress to perform could be placed on Hasselbeck in 2008, and he will have to find soft spots in the defense and spread the ball around more adeptly than in the past. Seneca Wallace and Charlie Frye are the backups. Wallace is a superb athlete who could see more time at wideout this season if Frye proves capable. Trading for Frye could end up being a shrewd move, because his lack of arm strength would not be a major liability in this offense, and the change of scenery surely will do Frye good.


10. Cleveland Browns
This is a quarterback-friendly offense, but you have to respect what Derek Anderson accomplished in his first year as a starter. However, Brady Quinn still is waiting in the wings, and that makes ranking Cleveland's quarterback tandem difficult.

In Anderson, the Browns have a tall, strong-armed passer who performed very well early in the season by getting the ball out quickly and making sound decisions. But, as the season went along, the true Anderson began to appear, as he rushed his throws and made too many poor choices with the football. Behind an elite offensive line, with a solid running game and outstanding options to throw the ball to, forcing the issue and turning the ball over simply will not do. He is fortunate to throw to such large receivers with fantastic catching radiuses. Overall, he runs too hot and cold, and Browns fans got a taste of both last year. Anderson was at his best when little was expected of him. Plus, he didn't handle the playoff run or poor weather well, which aren't good traits in Cleveland.

Of course, Quinn remains a relative unknown, but he has good mental makeup, poise, strength and athletic ability. If Anderson had played better late in the year, Cleveland would have been in the playoffs. In any case, this is a good situation to have at the most important position on the field, and many teams would do cartwheels to get either Anderson or Quinn right now. Either quarterback might end up posting top numbers in this offense, and both quarterbacks still are very young.

Scouts Inc. watches games, breaks down film and studies football from all angles for ESPN.com.[/quote]





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[JoePong]

What is the surprise? Rotethlisberger is right up there with Manning and Brady and ahead of Carson. Honestly, I don't kow how some bengal fans can still, with a straight face, claim that Carson is better than Ben. They just have no shred of objectivity.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='JoePong' post='677751' date='Jul 8 2008, 09:04 PM']What is the surprise? Rotethlisberger is right up there with Manning and Brady and ahead of Carson. Honestly, I don't kow how some bengal fans can still, with a straight face, claim that Carson is better than Ben. They just have no shred of objectivity.[/quote]


Roethlisberger was 24th in the NFL for pass attempts per game this past season.
He was 14th in passing yardage.
He completed .4% more of his passes than Carson,
while throwing 171 less passes.

Carson WAS the Bengals Offense in 2007.

Carson had more 20+ yard passes than Roethlisberger.
Carson also had more 40+ yard passes.
Carson had 0 TE threats.
Carson played most of the season without a #3 WR.
Carson was 3rd in the NFL in pass attempts.
Carson had our 4th string RB or a banged up Rudi most of the season.
Carson wasn`t sacked a lot because he locked onto recievers before
the snap a lot, sometimes leading to an INT. Which is why he had a high
number of INTs this season. And to his "low" QB rating. He did that because
he didn`t want to get sacked a lot, like Roethlisberger did. (We had to play
musical chairs with the O-line all season).

Carson still had a good season all things considered. And he didn`t
have a top 3 rushing attack and a top ranked Defense. Switch
places with the 2 and watch what a difference that would make.


Now crawl back into your hole . . .

[CTBengalsFan]

While I certainly don't agree, you can't really say anyone who thinks Ben is better than Carson is unreasonable. Carson has stats and responsibilities, Ben has wins and rugged athleticism. Whatever you value more determines who think is better.

[claptonrocks]

I would venture to say that most GM's would rate Brady, Manning, Palmer and Brees on one level and
Gentle Ben, McNabb, Eli and Hasselback in the second tier...

One thing is certain ...there a few elite QB's in the NFL presently so having CP at the helm is a blessing in Cincy..

[The Scales]

YAH CRAWL BACK INTO YOR HOLE PUNK!


HA AHA


Leet

[TheBeaverHunter]

I hope we didn't make a mistake taking Simpson over Sweed.

[oftt4]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='677753' date='Jul 8 2008, 10:10 PM']Roethlisberger was 24th in the NFL for pass attempts per game this past season.
He was 14th in passing yardage.
He completed .4% more of his passes than Carson,
while throwing 171 less passes.

Carson WAS the Bengals Offense in 2007.

Carson had more 20+ yard passes than Roethlisberger.
Carson also had more 40+ yard passes.
Carson had 0 TE threats.
Carson played most of the season without a #3 WR.
Carson was 3rd in the NFL in pass attempts.
Carson had our 4th string RB or a banged up Rudi most of the season.
Carson wasn`t sacked a lot because he locked onto recievers before
the snap a lot, sometimes leading to an INT. Which is why he had a high
number of INTs this season. And to his "low" QB rating. He did that because
he didn`t want to get sacked a lot, like Roethlisberger did. (We had to play
musical chairs with the O-line all season).

Carson still had a good season all things considered. And he didn`t
have a top 3 rushing attack and a top ranked Defense. Switch
places with the 2 and watch what a difference that would make.


Now crawl back into your hole . . .[/quote]

You have written this exact same post before...do you have it saved somewhere?

Ben also had a higher Yards per attempt (7.8 to 7.2), more TD's (32 to 26) and consequently a much higher TD % (7.92 to 4.52).

I understand that you like Palmer, and I agree that he is a very good QB, but you put far too much emphasis on pass attempts. Quality beats quantity every time.


Oh, and it is kinda strange that 3 of the top 10 QB's in the league are in the same division, AFCN (though I personally disagree with Anderson being there).

[oldschooler]

[quote name='oftt4' post='677791' date='Jul 9 2008, 05:33 AM']You have written this exact same post before...do you have it saved somewhere?[/quote]


Actually, it's not the exact same post. But everything I posted is saved 'somewhere'
on this board.

And what does it matter? Facts are still facts.



[quote]Ben also had a higher Yards per attempt (7.8 to 7.2), more TD's (32 to 26) and consequently a much higher TD % (7.92 to 4.52).[/quote]

Carson is the 5th fastest QB in NFL HISTORY to throw 100 TDs.
He has broken many franchise records.

The Bengals had the 24th ranked rushing Offense in 2007.
They had 3 games, where a RB went over 100 yards.

Our #3 reciever was our 4th string RB.
The Stealers #3 and #4 recievers had more catches,
than our real #3 WR and our TE did.


The reason Carson was 3rd in pass attempts, and was tied
for the lead in INTs was because he didn`t have a TE threat,
no viable #3 WR and no running attack. Again, he WAS the Offense.

Out of Carson`s 373 completions, 205 of them were to 2 recievers.
That is well over 50%.

Out of Ben`s 264 completions, 123 of them were to 2 recievers.
That`s well under 50%.

Carson had almost as many completions to 2 recievers, as Ben
had to 5 Stealer recievers. In other words, Carson was forced
to get the ball to 2 players, because he didn't have anymore options.


[quote]I understand that you like Palmer, and I agree that he is a very good QB, but you put far too much emphasis on pass attempts. Quality beats quantity every time.[/quote]


I understand that you like Ben, and I agree he helps the Stealers win.
But when the game is put onto his shoulders, he folds like a cheap lawn chair.

Anyway, why have this disagreement again? Obviously I'm not going to convince you
that Carson is a better all around QB.

[Legoland]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='677748' date='Jul 8 2008, 09:54 PM'][url="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3467906&action=login&appRedirect=http:/%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d3467906"]http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/new...%3fid%3d3467906[/url][/quote]

To me this whole arguement is utter bullshit. Situations on the individual teams have more to do with the qb's success than his skill. Tom Brady walked into the perfect situation for him as well as Gentle Ben. Peyton however is an exception. Peyton can walk onto any team and find some kind of success. I cant say that about the other qb's on this list. I do think Carson is close to that but even then he's not Peyton. I can man up and say Toothlessburger has had more success than Carson, but that doesnt mean skill wise he's a better qb.

Switch them and what do you think happens? Answer that one honestly and then give me your rankings. Same with Brady and Manning switch their teams and tell me how many rings Peyton would have?

[|SF2|]

Rothleisberger is fearless and will do whatever it takes to get the first down or keep the play alive. Carson has a tremendous arm but is afraid of contact and rarely makes it to his third read. He has happy feet. Is Ben better? If the game were on the line I would rather have Rothleisberger with our receivers than Carson. I know Jen will take the big hit or wait until the last second if that is what it will take. Carson will not. Jen will probably have a shortened NFL career because of this but he will do what it takes to win. Does that mean he is a more talented player than Carson? No.

You can throw all the stats out there you want but Carson has had perhaps the most talented receivers in the NFL the last 5 years. I hate to even say this but Kitna did pretty well with those receivers his last year here and he has nothing on Palmer.

Jen also has the support of his teammates. Based on the current Chad drama you can't say the same about Carson since few if any have come to Palmer's defense on this team in a strong way.

BTW, the idea that we will now throw to our TE is something I will have to see to believe. I have been to too many games sitting in the endzone and have watched our uncovered TE stand 8 to 10 yards downfield and NEVER sniff the ball. Carson never makes it that far and will always try to force the ball to Chad or TJ. Henry had one good game (the first) when he got back and hardly saw the ball after that. If we won't throw to a very talented (on the field) third receiver, what makes anyone think we will throw to our TE? Sure, it makes sense to do it but we never do.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='SF2' post='677819' date='Jul 9 2008, 07:32 AM']You can throw all the stats out there you want but [b]Carson has had perhaps the most talented receivers in the NFL the last 5 years.[/b] I hate to even say this but Kitna did pretty well with those receivers his last year here and he has nothing on Palmer.[/quote]


Chad Johnson had went to 1 Pro Bowl and TJ was a 7th round pick
that had 62 catches for 720 yards and 1 TD from 2001-2003.
TJ only brokeout when Carson took over. Chad only got better.

Also, Kitna only had Chad Johnson in 2003. There was no TJ
or Chris Henry. So I don't know what you're talking about.
And obviously, neither do you.

Hines Ward was a Pro Bowler in 2001, 2002 and 2003. Roethlisberger wasn't there.
Santonio Holmes is a 1st round pick . . .



[quote]Jen also has the support of his teammates. Based on the current Chad drama you can't say the same about Carson since few if any have come to Palmer's defense on this team in a strong way.[/quote]

Is this a joke?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='SF2' post='677819' date='Jul 9 2008, 08:32 AM']Jen also has the support of his teammates. Based on the current Chad drama you can't say the same about Carson since few if any have come to Palmer's defense on this team in a strong way.[/quote]


well if that isn't the biggest load of bullshit I've ever seen written, not only about Carson but Jen as well.

[JC]

I'd say if they were basing it off last year alone, Ben should be ahead of Carson because of the seasons they both had. Ben coming off a year where he threw a bunch of touchdowns and Carson coming off of a year throwing a lot interceptions.

Drew Brees above Carson? Eh i don't know about that.


But this year if Carson has a revamped running game and a solid #3 reciever to go along with Utecht as well as Chris Perry Carson will be in that elite group no doubt.

[fredtoast]

This is a little OT, but an interesting fact I'd like to point out. Of the top 10 QBs listed here HALF were drafted in the 4th round or later (Garrard-4th round, Brady-6th round, Hasselbaeck-6th round, Anderson-6th round, Romo-undrafted free agent).

No one wants to admit it, but judging the skills of a college QB is a total crap shoot. There were only 4 first round picks on that list (Palmer, Manning, Mcnabb, Roethlisberger). So there were more second day picks than first round picks in the top ten.

[fredtoast]

As for the Roethlisberger v. Palmer debate I think a lot of guys here are too hard on Big Ben just because of their hatred for the Steelers. He is a damn good QB. However he is not as good as Palmer. If they switched teams Roethlisberger would not be nearly as good with the Bengals.

Here is how Carson's career numbers rank ALL-TIME IN NFL HISTORY.

Completions per game.....#3
Passing yards per game.....#5
Completion percentage.....#5
Passer rating.....#7
Net yds per attempt.....#10

Ben actually has a slightly higher career passer rating, but he is not even in the top forty all-time in completions per game. You have to give him credit for what he has accomplished, but he has also been in a MUCH better situation than Carson. If Palmer had the luxury of the Steelers rushing game his numbers would be off the charts.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='SF2' post='677819' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:32 AM']Rothleisberger is fearless and will do whatever it takes to get the first down or keep the play alive. Carson has a tremendous arm but is afraid of contact and rarely makes it to his third read. He has happy feet. Is Ben better? If the game were on the line I would rather have Rothleisberger with our receivers than Carson. I know Jen will take the big hit or wait until the last second if that is what it will take. Carson will not. Jen will probably have a shortened NFL career because of this but he will do what it takes to win. Does that mean he is a more talented player than Carson? No.

You can throw all the stats out there you want but Carson has had perhaps the most talented receivers in the NFL the last 5 years. I hate to even say this but Kitna did pretty well with those receivers his last year here and he has nothing on Palmer.

Jen also has the support of his teammates. Based on the current Chad drama you can't say the same about Carson since few if any have come to Palmer's defense on this team in a strong way.

BTW, the idea that we will now throw to our TE is something I will have to see to believe. I have been to too many games sitting in the endzone and have watched our uncovered TE stand 8 to 10 yards downfield and NEVER sniff the ball. Carson never makes it that far and will always try to force the ball to Chad or TJ. Henry had one good game (the first) when he got back and hardly saw the ball after that. If we won't throw to a very talented (on the field) third receiver, what makes anyone think we will throw to our TE? Sure, it makes sense to do it but we never do.[/quote]


he completely mentally buttfucked in teh superbowl, and it took trick plays and WR's throwing passes to win. he bucklefucked under pressure completely. his running game and defense have been his crutch forever.. he has proven more than once when the game is in his hands to win, he fails, he threw 4-5 picks against US in 2005 i a game that all but clinched the division for us in THEIR house.

haynes, krieder and davenport, all RB's average over 10 yards per reception.

the judging of some stats vs others and ignoring mostly skillset is what makes some angry when ben is regarded better than carson, carson is a much more talented QB than ben.. by far, carson is expected to win games and make the big plays, the steelers gameplan is to not have to have ben make plays to win. theres a reason he didnt have a single 1000 yard receiver last year.

ben had probably his best year of his career last year as a QB, carson had arguably his worst, offensive line comparison alone put carson behind the 8 ball.

carson is the better qb, ben had a better year last year.

in the same amount of years starting, carson has more yards(by 3,200), attempts (by 600), percentage(by 1%), TD's(by 20), YPG(by 40ypg), 40+ yrd passes, 20+ yard passes, and was smart enough to take 50 less sacks, getting rid of the ball, which 99.9% of the time surely was an incomplete attempt. and ben has lost his team 300+ more yards on sacks than carson.

[Farbeyonddriven]

If you think big Jen is a better QB than Palmer, then I seriously have to wonder if you could possibly be cognitively challenged.

Jen was plopped down into an already good system.

Palmer has helped build a team.


oh...

and fuck off Steeler trolls.

[BengalsOwn]

[quote name='SF2' post='677819' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:32 AM']If the game were on the line I would rather have Rothleisberger with our receivers than Carson. I know Jen will take the big hit or wait until the last second if that is what it will take.[/quote]

That I agree with 100%. Carson has been nothing but a choker except for that one game against the Ravens, and that game against the Dolphins.

[oftt4]

[quote name='fredtoast' post='677831' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:46 AM']As for the Roethlisberger v. Palmer debate I think a lot of guys here are too hard on Big Ben just because of their hatred for the Steelers. He is a damn good QB. However he is not as good as Palmer. If they switched teams Roethlisberger would not be nearly as good with the Bengals.

Here is how Carson's career numbers rank ALL-TIME IN NFL HISTORY.

Completions per game.....#3
Passing yards per game.....#5
Completion percentage.....#5
Passer rating.....#7
Net yds per attempt.....#10

Ben actually has a slightly higher career passer rating, but he is not even in the top forty all-time in completions per game. You have to give him credit for what he has accomplished, but he has also been in a MUCH better situation than Carson. If Palmer had the luxury of the Steelers rushing game his numbers would be off the charts.[/quote]

And Ben's rankings ALL-TIME IN NFL HISTORY....

Completion percentage.....9th

Passer rating....5th

Net yards per pass attempt...7th.

TD%....18th (highest of any active QB, or any QB in the past 32 years)

Actual Yards per pass attempt...4th (highest of any active QB, or any QB in the past 48 years)



Ben really manages the hell out of those games, doesnt he?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' post='677836' date='Jul 9 2008, 10:52 AM']That I agree with 100%. Carson has been nothing but a choker except for that one game against the Ravens, and that game against the Dolphins.[/quote]


wwwhhaaaatttttt......

why do you watch football if its so confusing to you? is that like when i watch the Spanish channels to see what words i can understand?

choking is what kitna did in the browns game 2003, in the playoff game, and in the bills game 2006. i dont know that i have ever seen palmer choke.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='677841' date='Jul 9 2008, 10:05 AM']And Ben's rankings ALL-TIME IN NFL HISTORY....

Completion percentage.....9th

Passer rating....5th

Net yards per pass attempt...7th.

TD%....18th (highest of any active QB, or any QB in the past 32 years)

Actual Yards per pass attempt...4th (highest of any active QB, or any QB in the past 48 years)



[color="#FF0000"]Ben really manages the hell out of those games, doesnt he?[/color][/quote]


Yep.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='SF2' post='677819' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:32 AM']Rothleisberger is fearless and will do whatever it takes to get the first down or keep the play alive. Carson has a tremendous arm but is afraid of contact and rarely makes it to his third read. He has happy feet. Is Ben better? If the game were on the line I would rather have Rothleisberger with our receivers than Carson. I know Jen will take the big hit or wait until the last second if that is what it will take. Carson will not. Jen will probably have a shortened NFL career because of this but he will do what it takes to win. Does that mean he is a more talented player than Carson? No.

You can throw all the stats out there you want but Carson has had perhaps the most talented receivers in the NFL the last 5 years. I hate to even say this but Kitna did pretty well with those receivers his last year here and he has nothing on Palmer.

Jen also has the support of his teammates. Based on the current Chad drama you can't say the same about Carson since few if any have come to Palmer's defense on this team in a strong way.

BTW, the idea that we will now throw to our TE is something I will have to see to believe. I have been to too many games sitting in the endzone and have watched our uncovered TE stand 8 to 10 yards downfield and NEVER sniff the ball. Carson never makes it that far and will always try to force the ball to Chad or TJ. Henry had one good game (the first) when he got back and hardly saw the ball after that. If we won't throw to a very talented (on the field) third receiver, what makes anyone think we will throw to our TE? Sure, it makes sense to do it but we never do.[/quote]


ben sure seemed scared in the superbowl, biggest game of his life he posted a qb rating lower than his age. CLUTCH!!!11

and what does palmer need to defend or be defended? what accusations are against him? what should his teammates be doing? palmer has no adversary... chad is being bitch, what does that have to do with palmer?

and im pretty sure wines hard was calling out ben wanting a tall receiver for the red zone this offseason. which is alot more than anyone has said against palmer.

what the fuck are you even talking about?

[Actium]

[quote name='fredtoast' post='677831' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:46 AM']As for the Roethlisberger v. Palmer debate I think a lot of guys here are too hard on Big Ben just because of their hatred for the Steelers. He is a damn good QB. However he is not as good as Palmer. If they switched teams Roethlisberger would not be nearly as good with the Bengals.

Here is how Carson's career numbers rank ALL-TIME IN NFL HISTORY.

Completions per game.....#3
Passing yards per game.....#5
Completion percentage.....#5
Passer rating.....#7
Net yds per attempt.....#10

Ben actually has a slightly higher career passer rating, but he is not even in the top forty all-time in completions per game. You have to give him credit for what he has accomplished, but he has also been in a MUCH better situation than Carson. If Palmer had the luxury of the Steelers rushing game his numbers would be off the charts.[/quote]

co-sign

[Actium]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' post='677836' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:52 AM']That I agree with 100%. Carson has been nothing but a choker except for that one game against the Ravens, and that game against the Dolphins.[/quote]

hate to admit it but it sure looks that way. He always seems to throw a pick when the game comes down to the last possession and the Bengals need a TD to win.