Sarah Palin lying aboiut the fifth kid?

[steggyD]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='694257' date='Sep 1 2008, 10:50 PM']then by your own logic bjs point should be emphasized even more

awesome[/quote]
I'm not using logic, I'm showing BJ's use of spamming pictures and any other bullshit to prove some kind of point. He is so fuckin' random, the guy doesn't even make sense anymore.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='steggyD' post='694265' date='Sep 1 2008, 09:56 PM'][b]I'm not using logic[/b], I'm showing BJ's use of spamming pictures and any other bullshit to prove some kind of point. He is so fuckin' random, the guy doesn't even make sense anymore.[/quote]

You're kidding!

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='steggyD' post='694265' date='Sep 1 2008, 10:56 PM']I'm not using logic, I'm showing BJ's use of spamming pictures and any other bullshit to prove some kind of point. He is so fuckin' random, the guy doesn't even make sense anymore.[/quote]
well thats beyond needing to be said, but i fail to see how pointing out a half black man being perceived to be more intelligent than two white people in a test that favors caucasians greatly supports your thesis

[steggyD]

Fuckin' guys. I'm saying that he said that the IQ is worthless. Then he uses the IQ to say that the 2 guys he likes are smarter. I'm pointing out the, grr, let me dig up the post.

Nm, I can not search with a word less than 3 characters.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='steggyD' post='694272' date='Sep 1 2008, 10:05 PM']Fuckin' guys. I'm saying that he said that the IQ is worthless. Then he uses the IQ to say that the 2 guys he likes are smarter. I'm pointing out the, grr, let me dig up the post.

[color="#FF0000"]Nm, I can not search with a word less than 3 characters.[/color][/quote]


the search feature on this site drives me crazy sometimes with searches ive tried, can search on less than 3, cant search on certin words, ect..

[steggyD]

Just coming here to say I'm done. Going to start real threads, cause JamieB brought up something interesting in another pointless thread.

[Homer_Rice]

[url="http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=14590"]Raises a good point.[/url]

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='694614' date='Sep 3 2008, 10:32 AM'][url="http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=14590"]Raises a good point.[/url][/quote]

yup

[quote]If Palin had wanted to end all speculation about her maternity, the logical, simple, and irrefutable thing to have done would have been to release her own medical records, which would have provided virtually indisputable proof of the fact that she--and not Bristol--was the mother of that child.

And in releasing these records, she could easily have spared her daughter the embarrasment of being outed on an international scale as a "fornicator," and a teen mother. In other words, Bristol's current pregnancy is entirely irrelevant to Palin's authenticity as Trig's mother. So if she's telling the truth and can prove it, why bring Bristol into it at all? Why throw your pregnant, teenaged daughter under the bus and international scrutiny if you don't have to? If there's another, simple, honest way to end the potentially damaging speculation?[/quote]

[bengalrick]

Because it is certainly her duty to release her hospital records to the world in order to disprove a bullshit and total illegitimate charge against her. This is one of those storys, like the John Edwards story, that sounds so ridiculous on the surface that you shut the fuck up about it unless you are damn sure it is the truth...

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='694630' date='Sep 2 2008, 09:02 PM']Because it is certainly her duty to release her hospital records to the world in order to disprove a bullshit and total illegitimate charge against her. This is one of those storys, like the John Edwards story, that sounds so ridiculous on the surface that you shut the fuck up about it unless you are damn sure it is the truth...[/quote]
Why are you so offended, br? I mean, it's not like lying a population into a false war or anything, eh?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='694652' date='Sep 2 2008, 08:31 PM']Why are you so offended, br? I mean, it's not like lying a population into a false war or anything, eh?[/quote]


:cripes:

[|BlackJesus|]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='694652' date='Sep 2 2008, 09:31 PM']Why are you so offended, br? I mean, it's not like lying a population into a false war or anything, eh?[/quote]

[b]pwned[/b]

[bengalrick]

I don't agree with that premise homer... I think that most everyone on the planet thought that he was a major threat, and I think that the intellegence was either that bad or he did what anyone would do after hearing months of debates about wmds, he got rid of any he had and stopped the programs... I do not buy into the opinion that we were lied into a false war...

So now to this topic, I really am not that mad or offended, besides at bj's regular bullshit... But since when has it stooped this low? I could understand if there was some actual proof that this is the case, but unless she was literally wearing a pregnancy suit in all of those pictures, this was clearly her kid... So if this was her kid and not the 17 year olds, if there is any shred of evidence to the contrary of the rumor, shouldn't the poor girl get the benefit of the doubt?

And about releasing the medical records, having literally just gone through a 19 hour long labor, I doubt she would want to release her medical records just for the principal in the matter. That is their business (my wives and Gov. Palin's) so unless you are damn sure you are right, you leave it alone... And to please people like BJ and even you who at least ponder that she might have been wearing a pregnancy suit to fool people and is covering up for her daughter, no way in hell she should release that shit...

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='694683' date='Sep 3 2008, 12:23 PM']I don't agree with that premise homer... I think that most everyone on the planet thought that he was a major threat, and I think that the intellegence was either that bad or he did what anyone would do after hearing months of debates about wmds, he got rid of any he had and stopped the programs... I do not buy into the opinion that we were lied into a false war...

So now to this topic, I really am not that mad or offended, besides at bj's regular bullshit... But since when has it stooped this low? I could understand if there was some actual proof that this is the case, but unless she was literally wearing a pregnancy suit in all of those pictures, this was clearly her kid... So if this was her kid and not the 17 year olds, if there is any shred of evidence to the contrary of the rumor, shouldn't the poor girl get the benefit of the doubt?

And about releasing the medical records, [b]having literally just gone through a 19 hour long labor,[/b] I doubt she would want to release her medical records just for the principal in the matter. That is their business (my wives and Gov. Palin's) so unless you are damn sure you are right, you leave it alone... And to please people like BJ and even you who at least ponder that she might have been wearing a pregnancy suit to fool people and is covering up for her daughter, no way in hell she should release that shit...[/quote]
Perfect.... Rick, ask your wife if she'd have flown from TX to bumfuck, AK to wait and give birth with you there. :hmm:

didn't think so

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='KangarWhoDey' post='694694' date='Sep 2 2008, 09:44 PM']Perfect.... Rick, ask your wife if she'd have flown from TX to bumfuck, AK to wait and give birth with you there, [b]despite being a 40+ year old mother carrying a premature fetus known to have Down's Syndrome, all of which make this a high-risk pregnancy demanding a state-of-the-art hospital. And all this after her water has broken, putting her in the early stages of labor.[/b] :hmm:

didn't think so [/quote]

Sorry; you were on a roll, but the spirit of truth compelled me to embellish. Allow me to "add some spice to the stew."

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='694683' date='Sep 2 2008, 10:23 PM']I don't agree with that premise homer... I think that most everyone on the planet thought that he was a major threat, and I think that the intellegence was either that bad or he did what anyone would do after hearing months of debates about wmds, he got rid of any he had and stopped the programs... I do not buy into the opinion that we were lied into a false war...[/quote]

If by now you haven't dived into the details and chronology of the decision to use 9-11 as an excuse to go to war with Iraq, then I can't help you. The evidence is there. The premise, sound.

[quote]So now to this topic, I really am not that mad or offended, besides at bj's regular bullshit... But since when has it stooped this low? I could understand if there was some actual proof that this is the case, but unless she was literally wearing a pregnancy suit in all of those pictures, this was clearly her kid... So if this was her kid and not the 17 year olds, if there is any shred of evidence to the contrary of the rumor, shouldn't the poor girl get the benefit of the doubt?[/quote]

Since when? Google for Alexander Hamilton and Maria Reynolds. The political use of private misfortune/bad judgement has a long tradition. Not saying it is right; just saying it's not surprising. I mean, if you're LeBron James cutting to the basket as somebody throws an alley oop--whaddaya gonna do? It's like a reflex in American politics.

[quote]And about releasing the medical records, having literally just gone through a 19 hour long labor, I doubt she would want to release her medical records just for the principal in the matter. That is their business (my wives and Gov. Palin's) so unless you are damn sure you are right, you leave it alone... And to please people like BJ and even you who at least ponder that she might have been wearing a pregnancy suit to fool people and is covering up for her daughter, no way in hell she should release that shit...[/quote]

Honestly, it's moot to me whether or not this specific event is true. That's not the point. The point is that this is an incredibly bad bit of judgement on McCain's part--whether you consider it from the perspective of politics or statecraft. Worse than Quayle, worse than Eagleton. To me, this is like a video of "Republicans Gone Wild!!!" Don't blame me for laughing just because some pols got metaphorically drunk and flashed their undies.

Beside, br, you may have the last laugh. McCain could still win the election. At which point I suppose you'll be laughing and I'll be crying.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='694652' date='Sep 2 2008, 09:31 PM']Why are you so offended, br? I mean, it's not like lying a population into a false war or anything, eh?[/quote]
Come on Homer... I've always known you to be relatively even keeled. An admitted democrat (if not love for that party disdain for the repub) but give me a break. You can fire away at Bush all day long - I didn't think McCain made the decision to go to Iraq, or for that matter Palin.

So, you're saying that because some lady from Berkeley California (there is a conservative area...) writes an editorial piece questioning something that this lady is supposed to just throw out all her medical records to disprove it. She shouldn't have to "prove" anything. Shouldn't the party generating the "issue" provide proof to their argument in the first place? Not just conjecture?

By this thinking - I can write a story that Michelle Obama has had two abortions in the last 3 years... She now has to provide medical proof that she's not. All her medical records, etc. I'd think first, I would have to provide proof that such a story is legitimate. Don't you think?

And, by your standard, I'm in the right here because John Edwards lied (they are after all all Democrats)...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='694745' date='Sep 3 2008, 02:30 AM']If by now you haven't dived into the details and chronology of the decision to use 9-11 as an excuse to go to war with Iraq, then I can't help you. The evidence is there. The premise, sound.



Since when? Google for Alexander Hamilton and Maria Reynolds. The political use of private misfortune/bad judgement has a long tradition. Not saying it is right; just saying it's not surprising. I mean, if you're LeBron James cutting to the basket as somebody throws an alley oop--whaddaya gonna do? It's like a reflex in American politics.



Honestly, it's moot to me whether or not this specific event is true. That's not the point. The point is that this is an incredibly bad bit of judgement on McCain's part--whether you consider it from the perspective of politics or statecraft. Worse than Quayle, worse than Eagleton. To me, this is like a video of "Republicans Gone Wild!!!" Don't blame me for laughing just because some pols got metaphorically drunk and flashed their undies.

Beside, br, you may have the last laugh. McCain could still win the election. At which point I suppose you'll be laughing and I'll be crying.[/quote]


It isnt even the most unwise choice he made. .... Phil Graham....hello!!!

[Nati Ice]

there is some serious cognitive dissonance going on here

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='694782' date='Sep 3 2008, 08:29 AM']By this thinking - I can write a story that Michelle Obama has had two abortions in the last 3 years... She now has to provide medical proof that she's not. All her medical records, etc. I'd think first, I would have to provide proof that such a story is legitimate. Don't you think?[/quote]
michelle obama is a candidates wife, sarah palin is a candidate

all of the candidates except for sarah palin have released their medical records

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='694805' date='Sep 3 2008, 09:05 AM']there is some serious cognitive dissonance going on here


michelle obama is a candidates wife, sarah palin is a candidate

all of the candidates except for sarah palin have released their medical records[/quote]

There is DEFINITELY cognitive dissonance...


funny... I pull up a USA today article (from 3 days ago) stating that Biden's will be released "at a later date"...

He's had surgery for two life-threatening brain aneurysms... wonder if his mental capacity has been affected? They are known to do that. Anybody question that yet?

I guess when you said "all" you meant presidential... but then, that wouldn't apply to Palin would it?

If it is customary for the candidates (both presidential and vp) to release medical records as a matter of course then she should as well. But, to release them to answer a liberal columnist / blogger is just stupid. You'd spend all your time answering the next assertion / claim. Just a waste of time.

And, as we've now spent 2-3 days going back and forth over this whole issue - if, in fact, it is standard procedure to all 4 candidates to release records then why don't we all relax, sit back, and wait for her records to be released. You can see everything you'd like at that time. Doesn't all this other conjecture / speculation waste time and I'd think the records would prove / disprove whatever questions people seem to have.

Don't you?

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='694809' date='Sep 3 2008, 09:19 AM']There is DEFINITELY cognitive dissonance...


funny... I pull up a USA today article (from 3 days ago) stating that Biden's will be released "at a later date"...

He's had surgery for two life-threatening brain aneurysms... wonder if his mental capacity has been affected? They are known to do that. Anybody question that yet?

I guess when you said "all" you meant presidential... but then, that wouldn't apply to Palin would it?

If it is customary for the candidates (both presidential and vp) to release medical records as a matter of course then she should as well. But, to release them to answer a liberal columnist / blogger is just stupid. You'd spend all your time answering the next assertion / claim. Just a waste of time.

And, as we've now spent 2-3 days going back and forth over this whole issue - if, in fact, it is standard procedure to all 4 candidates to release records then why don't we all relax, sit back, and wait for her records to be released. You can see everything you'd like at that time. Doesn't all this other conjecture / speculation waste time and I'd think the records would prove / disprove whatever questions people seem to have.

Don't you?[/quote]
LOL

there is no public debate about bidens health and if there were his medical records would have been released the second it began in order to squash the quesitons, palins... not so much

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='694782' date='Sep 3 2008, 08:29 AM']Come on Homer... I've always known you to be relatively even keeled. An admitted democrat (if not love for that party disdain for the repub) but give me a break. You can fire away at Bush all day long - I didn't think McCain made the decision to go to Iraq, or for that matter Palin.

So, you're saying that because some lady from Berkeley California (there is a conservative area...) writes an editorial piece questioning something that this lady is supposed to just throw out all her medical records to disprove it. She shouldn't have to "prove" anything. Shouldn't the party generating the "issue" provide proof to their argument in the first place? Not just conjecture?

By this thinking - I can write a story that Michelle Obama has had two abortions in the last 3 years... She now has to provide medical proof that she's not. All her medical records, etc. I'd think first, I would have to provide proof that such a story is legitimate. Don't you think?

And, by your standard, I'm in the right here because John Edwards lied (they are after all all Democrats)...[/quote]
Vol, Vol...you're smarter than this. Don't make the mistake of thinking I think the way you think I think. Or, if you do, then get a little better at epistemology.

On this conjecture/proof stuff: Not necessarily. A wise person is going to think things through and draw reasonable conclusions from that train of thought. Very rarely is anything "proven" to a standard which can find no detractors. Especially true in political life, but also even in science.

I think the gal made a good point: why not simply release a statement from the attending doctor to put this to rest? No, some folks say--"hey, this is a private matter and Palin doesn't have to respond at all." And that would be an acceptable tactic to politically handle the situation. Just don't give it credence by acknowledging it. Happens all the time.

But that isn't what happened, is it? What happened is that someone spun a scenario that complicates damage control.

Forgive me if I am terribly amused by all this. This is playing out like a sketch from the other famous Palin. And, as I have said all along, this isn't about Sarah Palin as much as it is about a very visible chink in the McCain camp's ability to "think things through."

And thanks for suggesting I am even-keeled. Doesn't me me humorless or an automaton, though.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='694813' date='Sep 3 2008, 09:28 AM']LOL

there is no public debate about bidens health and if there were his medical records would have been released the second it began in order to squash the quesitons, palins... not so much[/quote]

Why is hers, and why isn't his?


[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='694814' date='Sep 3 2008, 09:33 AM']Vol, Vol...you're smarter than this. Don't make the mistake of thinking I think the way you think I think. Or, if you do, then get a little better at epistemology.

On this conjecture/proof stuff: Not necessarily. A wise person is going to think things through and draw reasonable conclusions from that train of thought. Very rarely is anything "proven" to a standard which can find no detractors. Especially true in political life, but also even in science.

I think the gal made a good point: why not simply release a statement from the attending doctor to put this to rest? No, some folks say--"hey, this is a private matter and Palin doesn't have to respond at all." And that would be an acceptable tactic to politically handle the situation. Just don't give it credence by acknowledging it. Happens all the time.

But that isn't what happened, is it? What happened is that someone spun a scenario that complicates damage control.

Forgive me if I am terribly amused by all this. This is playing out like a sketch from the other famous Palin. And, as I have said all along, this isn't about Sarah Palin as much as it is about a very visible chink in the McCain camp's ability to "think things through."

And thanks for suggesting I am even-keeled. Doesn't me me humorless or an automaton, though.[/quote]

I think you think I think you know what I think you think...

I'm amused as well - the simple fact that until there is actual evidence, not just conjecture I don't see the national story. Honestly, I don't know what happened. How did we get into the discussion of her youngest son Trig? And, her daughter? Who happens to be pregnant?

What caused those subjects to become national storylines? I can't even call them events because it seems like they were pulled out of the sky as fire starters...

I said RELATIVELY even-keeled... there is a difference.

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='694823' date='Sep 3 2008, 09:57 AM']Why is hers, and why isn't his?[/quote]
a public debate?

because she and the campaign have done little to stop the small controversy that surrounds her from spreading. they probably secretly approve of it and view it as a means to gain more sympathetic votes.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='694823' date='Sep 3 2008, 09:57 AM']I think you think I think you know what I think you think...

I'm amused as well - the simple fact that until there is actual evidence, not just conjecture I don't see the national story. Honestly, I don't know what happened. How did we get into the discussion of her youngest son Trig? And, her daughter? Who happens to be pregnant?

What caused those subjects to become national storylines? I can't even call them events because it seems like they were pulled out of the sky as fire starters...

I said RELATIVELY even-keeled... there is a difference. [/quote]


I understand how the conversation started. It's in the campaign manual: set up opposition research and start digging. Once, as an idealistic young punk, I was part of an oppo research team for a state-wide campaign. The feeling is both exhilarating and sort of creepy. On one hand, you feel like an insider doing missionary work; on the other hand, the better angel on your shoulder is saying, "Geez, this is kinda smarmy."

Earlier I said that it seemed to me that the vetting process was pretty sketchy. I said that I spent more time working on hiring mid-level executives than appeared to be the case here. Now, according to WaPo, it seems that Palin wasn't spoken to until the day before her selection. That doesn't mean the McCain folks hadn't done a little prior research, but even so--the day before? To me, this just confirms my belief that McCain is a bit of a loose cannon. What happens if he makes a shoot-from-the-hip kind of decision in a really important situation? (And isn't a VP choice honestly considered to be a somewhat important decision?)

[url="http://www.slate.com/id/2199118/"]That said, here's a case for Palin, sort of.[/url]