Carson Palmer failed to throw deep in 2009

[oldschooler]

[b]Carson Palmer: Palmer failed to throw deep in 2010[/b]
[b][url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2550"]Carson Palmer[/url] - QB - [url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=NFL&majteam=CIN"]CIN[/url] - Jul. 15 - 11:36 am et[/b]

According to Football Outsiders' game charters, only 15 percent of Carson Palmer's throws qualified as "deep" or "bomb" last season.
[color="blue"]More evidence of a tired or injured arm? For perspective, pop-gunned Chad Pennington's percentage was 19 as a starter in a similar system two years ago. On a positive note, Palmer was excellent on third and fourth downs and in comeback situations. As Football Outsiders suggest, perhaps Palmer was saving his arm to better succeed in clutch situations. Palmer insists his arm is as strong as ever heading into training camp this year.[/color]

Jul. 15 - 11:36 am et
[b]Source:[/b] [url="http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/07/15/camp-rostertology-quarterbacks/"]Cincinnati Enquirer
[/url]

[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=2550&line=175652&spln=1"]http://www.rotoworld...e=175652&spln=1[/url]


[b]The Outsiders View[/b]
[indent]Robert Weintraub of Football Outsiders provides his look at the position: "Our game charters noted only 15 percent of Palmer's throws as "deep" or "bomb." By contrast, noodle-armed Chad Pennington threw 19 percent of his balls deep or bomb in 2008 in a similar scheme. Palmer threw long 23 percent of the time in 2007. He saved his best play for clutch situations, as though recognizing that his arm had only so many throws in it. Besides the comebacks, his third/fourth down efficiency was superb, 26.0 percent DVOA, and was even better in the red zone (51.3 percent DVOA). On the other hand, he tied for the league lead (with Brett Favre) in penalties for QBs with 11 — mostly delay of game calls. Our projections see a slight decrease in completion percentage, and an uptick in interceptions. The depth behind Palmer is worrying. J.T. O'Sullivan is a sub-replacement level backup and Jordan Palmer's main contribution to the team are his iPhone apps."



[/indent]

[ccartman2]

I think it was more a matter of protection & play calling more then anything else; especially once Henry went down. They almost have to break last season into two to get any thing meaningful.

[Jason]

It's damn near impossible to throw deep successfully when your only deep threat is also your only reliable receiver.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

we can forget about last year and see how he does this year. like i've been saying, no more excuses this year.

[cincity]

The deep ball he threw to Chad at the end of the season against the Lions and the Chargers were right on point. It's not his arm.

[scharm]

4 out of 5 ol positions changed. 3 out of 5 had less than a season starting experince.

Nothing wrong with the arm. The bengals smartly were not going to destroy a young line's confidence and get their qb killed especially when they didn't need to. Bengals were on cruise control after sweeping steelers.

[AmishBengalFan]

Hey Old, dontcha mean "2009" not "2010" - unless you've got a Tardis.

[bengaled]

[quote name='cincity' date='16 July 2010 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1279285731' post='897220']
The deep ball he threw to Chad at the end of the season against the Lions and the Chargers were right on point. It's not his arm.
[/quote]

sure, we saw instances where he went deep, but the point they're raising is this. can he still go deep repetitively, like he used to do? as rumble said, this is his put up or shut up season... no more excuses.

[Jeb]

What confuses me about Carson is the shear number of accurate but dropped balls in the first game against the Jets (field conditions? ...the Jets receivers made their catches) compared to the shear number of wild / inaccurate balls in the 2nd game. Carson was deadly accurate the first game but something changed in the second game and his accuracy was gone. I can't figure that out.

Also, I don't buy the worn out arm theory. His passes were over peoples heads by a country mile.

The only theory that makes sense is an off field problem that has his mind off the game. We may never know.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='AmishBengalFan' date='16 July 2010 - 09:39 AM' timestamp='1279291179' post='897239']
Hey Old, dontcha mean "2009" not "2010" - unless you've got a Tardis.
[/quote]




I just copied and pasted the headline from Roto World. It was still early for me.
Nice catch though.

Editing now.

[|Bunghole|]

What's a Tardis? Is that like a future-telling device for retards?

[fredtoast]

It was about the protection more than Carson's arm.

if you remember early in the season we attempted at least one flea-flicker almost every game. This was an attempt to get Carson time to throw deep by using deception instead of solid pass blocking.

But by ther end of the year we weren't even attempting Flea Flickers, so who knows. It appeared to me that we just didn't have anyone that coud get open deep.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' date='16 July 2010 - 06:26 AM' timestamp='1279283182' post='897209']
we can forget about last year and see how he does this year. like i've been saying, no more excuses this year.
[/quote]

unless the line isnt fixed... we added nothing...basically.. so heres to hoping what we had got better/healthier.. etc

[bengaled]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='16 July 2010 - 03:26 PM' timestamp='1279308376' post='897301']
unless the line isnt fixed... we added nothing...basically.. so heres to hoping what we had got better/healthier.. etc
[/quote]

you don't see andre as an addition?

guess it's all in the wording.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='bengaled' date='16 July 2010 - 03:40 PM' timestamp='1279309212' post='897304']
you don't see andre as an addition?

guess it's all in the wording.
[/quote]

He's got to get healthy, get in there and be the dominant force he was in college. Or at least be adequate. I still don't think us fans really know how its going to turn out for him.

[JC]

Hard to throw the ball deep when Roland and Whitworth are busy getting ran around.

I expect the passing game to be much better with more options and a better line. Carson seems to lock onto Chad at times..now he has mucho weapons available.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='JC' date='16 July 2010 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1279319163' post='897329']
Hard to throw the ball deep when Roland and Whitworth are busy getting ran around.

I expect the passing game to be much better with more options and a better line. Carson seems to lock onto Chad at times..now he has mucho weapons available.
[/quote]

would you wanna check down to Coles? hell could he even see coles on the field?

[scharm]

Aside from the protection. TJ being a bitch screwed the Bengals more than anyone would want to admit. It took away the confidence builder and chain mover for Carson. Then you lose Henry. Defenses clamped down.

So questionable protection and not exactly good windows to throw the ball took away the desire to go deep.

[JC]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='16 July 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1279321732' post='897331']
would you wanna check down to Coles? hell could he even see coles on the field?
[/quote]
Fuck. All 5'6 of him and arms just long enough that he can clap his hands..I don't think so. We were so majorly dicked last year in the pass game.

[Quaker]

Why?

1. The Scheme.

9..The WRs.
10. Carson (Something was fucked in this guys head those last few games, He'd look good one play, then terrible the next, thats a mental thing)

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Quaker' date='16 July 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1279332026' post='897349']
Why?

1. The Scheme.

9..The WRs.
10. Carson (Something was fucked in this guys head those last few games, He'd look good one play, then terrible the next, thats a mental thing)
[/quote]

I'd reverse that set of priorities. I'm not a huge Bob Brat fan but its difficult to work out plays with inferior talent.

I was a big fan of the Coles signing, but it just didn't work out, and when Henry got injured and then died...there was just Chad. Caldwell fell off the map, we had no TE that could reliably catch the ball, etc, et al.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='scharm' date='16 July 2010 - 06:49 PM' timestamp='1279327747' post='897335']
Aside from the protection. TJ being a bitch screwed the Bengals more than anyone would want to admit. It took away the confidence builder and chain mover for Carson. Then you lose Henry. Defenses clamped down.

So questionable protection and not exactly good windows to throw the ball took away the desire to go deep.
[/quote]

w.o.r.d.

caldwell was a great #3/#4 and an average #2/#3.. he will progress if given a solid role at either depth. but his role changed mid year, much of his success was with henry on the field too, thus making a #3db or safety covering caldwell often.. and he had some great success early in the year.. he relaly did have a great first half of the year honestly..

[quote name='JC' date='16 July 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1279331568' post='897346']
Fuck. All 5'6 of him and [b]arms just long enough that he can clap his hands.[/b].I don't think so. We were so majorly dicked last year in the pass game.
[/quote]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah thats hilarious....

[quote name='Quaker' date='16 July 2010 - 08:00 PM' timestamp='1279332026' post='897349']
Why?

1. The Scheme.

9..The WRs.
10. Carson (Something was fucked in this guys head those last few games, He'd look good one play, then terrible the next, thats a mental thing)
[/quote]

so the scheme was to not pass protect and have no separation? that IS a bad scheme... wonder why they gave him a 2 year extension after that shitty scheme..... oh probably because he managed to win and sweep the division with filth on the field on the oline and WR core.. nothing wrong with carson other than the lack of tools to use. after chris went down, we lost a weapon, after 8-10 games, people started to catch onto the power line and shifts more.. the line was getting weaker, lost a huge WR weapon, and the success of the power line and rotating block schemes wore off....

the staff was asked about carson after the palyoff game, and they stated guys werent in the right place, he wasnt getting time, etc.. and you cant state that they were just defending a player, they threw 2-3 players under the bus, and often have called out guys not being able to be trusted, arent ready, etc.. he had to deal with a rotating mediocre line and rotating shuffling WR's... nah nah nah robably head problems youre right...


[quote name='Bunghole' date='16 July 2010 - 08:35 PM' timestamp='1279334132' post='897351']
I'd reverse that set of priorities. I'm not a huge Bob Brat fan but its difficult to work out plays with inferior talent.

I was a big fan of the Coles signing, but it just didn't work out, and when Henry got injured and then died...there was just Chad. Caldwell fell off the map, we had no TE that could reliably catch the ball, etc, et al.
[/quote]

if we started camp without henry, etc we would ahve likely had more success, but mid way through the year you can only adjust guys entire roles and positions so much.. coles was injured as well, bruised ribs or chest something or other most of the year.. are decent guys were hurt and the mediocre guys were kinda out of place...

it got nasty.. but we managed to pound out some wins..

we are 20x better off right now that last year..

we need to be healthy for once..

[oldschooler]

The Bengals were #1 (yay we're #1 ) in fumbles by their recievers.



[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_RECEIVING&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_FUMBLES&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1"]http://www.nfl.com/s...TM&d-447263-p=1[/url]


The Bengals were ranked 27th in pass attempts per game last season.


[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1"]http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_ATTEMPTS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1&season=2009&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1[/url]


And Carson had 33 (Hobson said 34 previously) passes dropped this past season.


[url="http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=P&playerid=1317&group=3"]http://profootballfo...id=1317&group=3[/url]

[scharm]

IMO, Palmer,Chad,Brat, and Alexander were handed a bag of unknown that could have been a huge bag of stinky poop. Instead, I think they got it to be a little bit better.

No one mentioned that Coates and Foschi were the no. 1 and 2 TEs. Think about it? That's your TEs.



So you hope the O-Line progresses with experience. Which is a common staple of success for O-line at any level of football. Plus a talent that could have easyily been No. 1 overall pick coming in at RT.

TE position is so much better on paper than Coates and Foschi it's not funny.

The big question is can you replace TJ and Henry. They got a bunch of youth and unknowns that I think is the biggest question mark with this team.

I expect this offense to move up but not drastic jumps. I expect 340-350 a game average and around 22 points a game. Carson probalbly throw for 3,400-3,500 yards.

[oldschooler]

[b][size="5"]Offensive upgrades should cater to Palmer[/size][/b]
[size="4"][b]Bengals look like a contender, but pressure is on QB in Cincy.[/b][/size]
Matt Bowen

July 17, 2010, 06:01 AM EST


One team that continues to spark my interest and is often overlooked is the [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Cincinnati-Bengals-5105.html"]Cincinnati Bengals[/url]. In my opinion, Cincy has the most underrated defense in the entire league under Mike Zimmer and enough additions on offense that should provide multiple opportunities to put points on the board. A team that should be discussed as we start to break down the AFC North and look ahead to training camp.

But, it still comes back to QB Carson Palmer. I have always been high on Palmer and I still use him as a measuring stick when it comes to evaluating new talent at the position coming into the league each April through the draft. All the intangibles you want from an NFL QB: size, arm strength, pocket presence, etc. You make a model of what a "franchise-level QB" should look like, it is Palmer.

However, if we want to view Palmer in that top-tier category with the likes of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers, the numbers — and the results — have to show on Sundays. Since 2005, Palmer's numbers have declined with each passing year. Yes, there have been injuries and some questionable front office moves made to this offense, but when we talk about 2010 there are no excuses.

Think of the additions that they made to this unit. Antonio Bryant at WR, [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Jermaine-Gresham-impressing-in-Cincinnati.html"]rookie first-round TE Jermaine Gresham[/url]. Those players aren't added for window dressing or to look good getting off of the bus. Instead, they are added to expand your playbook, create matchup issues down the field and give [url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Ochocinco-predicts-hell-earn-Super-Bowl-ring-this-year.html"]WR Chad Ochocinco[/url] some room to finally work with. Add that to a running game that is on par with the top half of the league and we are now looking at an offense that has big-play capability. Creativity is the best way to put it. Spread the field, align in multiple formations and give Palmer options in the passing game.

The Bengals didn't have that last season and it was never more evident after Rex Ryan's Jets knocked them out of the postseason. Stagnant, predictable and very easy to game plan against. I wasn't impressed. In fact, after a very good regular season they looked like they didn't belong in the playoffs.

We have to understand that every offense in this league must have the ability to pick up yards in "chunks." Explosive plays (25-plus yards). It is hard to continually drive the length of the field to put the ball in the end zone. Instead, you need that ability to score quickly, flip the field and force defenses to scheme and prepare differently for you than they have in the past.

Can Cincy do that in 2010? On paper, yes. But, it still comes back to Palmer. No excuses. He has the weapons that every QB in this league wants when heading to the stadium on Sunday. Now, he just has to play like a QB with franchise-level talent.




[url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Offensive-upgrades-should-cater-to-Palmer.html"]http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Offensive-upgrades-should-cater-to-Palmer.html[/url]