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A mess only Cam Newton can fix

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SF2 Hall Of Fame

|SF2|

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291779660' post='948899']
If Cam Newton were white he still couldn't read a defense.
[/quote]
And your basing this on what evidence?

Newton is far more athletic, taller, faster and has a better arm than any of the aforementioned quarterbacks of color that were busts. Of course we always seem to overlook the Warren Moons, Randall Cunningham, Vicks and Mcnabbs of the world but that hurts the argument. Of course, only Vick has faster wheels than Newton.

I wouldn't have a problem if we took him if he can prove to the club he doesn't have rocks for brains. If anything it would bring excitement to the club and would probably be very entertaining. Would it translate to more success? I think he could get us to the playoffs once or twice in the next 10 years with the right personnel. At this point I have kinda given up the dream of deep playoff runs for this organization.

Pretty much just want to be entertained at this point and be teased with an 8-8 or maybe a division title once in a while. Once this next labor agreement is signed my guess is any chance of the small market Bengals being a contender will evaporate.
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oldschooler Hall Of Fame

oldschooler

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[quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1291769174' post='948854']
I haven't heard anyone say he should be the #1 pick. Just a first round pick.
Didn't Sam Bradford play in a spread offense in college & rarely under center ?
[/quote]




BJ said if Newton was white, he would be the #1 overall pick, guaranteed.


[url="http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=57889&view=findpost&p=948835"][color="#000000"]#58[/color][/url] [url="http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showuser=4996"][color="#000000"]BlackJesus[/color][/url]



Anyway, people are buying into Newton's hype. Yes he has great size.
Yes he has had a great year. But that is all he has had. And that great
year has came in an Offense that he won't be running in the NFL.

He very well could be a star in the NFL. But I think his bust factor is high.
Very high, when you look at all the other baggage around his neck.
And he won't be starting in anyone's Offense right off the bat. It will take
some time to get him ready to be a everyday starter.


I wouldn't mind getting him in the 2nd round. And let him sit and develope.
But in the 1st round, where we are going to be picking? HELL NO.

I honestly don't want us to pick ANY QB in the 1st round. I don't think it is needed.
And I think people that talk, write or even dream about it are doing nothing but
wasting their time.
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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1291789844' post='948943']
And your basing this on what evidence?

Newton is far more athletic, taller, faster and has a better arm than any of the aforementioned quarterbacks of color that were busts. Of course we always seem to overlook the Warren Moons, Randall Cunningham, Vicks and Mcnabbs of the world but that hurts the argument. Of course, only Vick has faster wheels than Newton.

I wouldn't have a problem if we took him if he can prove to the club he doesn't have rocks for brains. If anything it would bring excitement to the club and would probably be very entertaining. Would it translate to more success? I think he could get us to the playoffs once or twice in the next 10 years with the right personnel. At this point I have kinda given up the dream of deep playoff runs for this organization.

Pretty much just want to be entertained at this point and be teased with an 8-8 or maybe a division title once in a while. Once this next labor agreement is signed my guess is any chance of the small market Bengals being a contender will evaporate.
[/quote]


for one, it was sarcasm based on the whole "people don't like him because he's black" posts above.



Newton's shown no indication that he can read a defense. He has to look to the sidelines during every play to get adjustments to what the defense is doing. He doesn't ever do it himself. He uses his athletic ability to buy time until one of his WR's comes open. That's good, but it's not like he's attacking the defense and knows what they will be doing. He basically ad-libs the entire game. Further, he runs far more than he passes. That's not good for a NFL QB prospect.


That shit's not going to fly in the NFL. He's easily 3 years away from being any kind of decent NFL QB. Further, there are concerns about his maturity, and your QB always has to be the most mature player on the field. That ain't happening with him.


I don't want to be entertained. I want wins.
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oldschooler Hall Of Fame

oldschooler

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291812585' post='948953']
I don't want to be entertained. I want wins.
[/quote]



[img]http://www.i94bar.com/images/boyhowdy.jpg[/img]






Winning is the most entertaining thing I can think of.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs[/media]
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bengalbutch Hall Of Fame

bengalbutch

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291812585' post='948953']
for one, it was sarcasm based on the whole "people don't like him because he's black" posts above.



Newton's shown no indication that he can read a defense. He has to look to the sidelines during every play to get adjustments to what the defense is doing. He doesn't ever do it himself. He uses his athletic ability to buy time until one of his WR's comes open. That's good, but it's not like he's attacking the defense and knows what they will be doing. He basically ad-libs the entire game. Further, he runs far more than he passes. That's not good for a NFL QB prospect.


That shit's not going to fly in the NFL. He's easily 3 years away from being any kind of decent NFL QB. Further, there are concerns about his maturity, and your QB always has to be the most mature player on the field. That ain't happening with him.


I don't want to be entertained. I want wins.
[/quote]
He looks to the sidelines to get play because that's what the coaches tell him to do. Many teams do that. What college qb has shown he can read a defense ? Most college qb get the play from the sidelines and run the play with having the power to audible.
He has running skills so Auburn uses his skills by calling running plays for him. Doesn't mean he will run in the NFL, but it's nice to have that ability when the occasion happens
He doesn't ad lib the entire game. I have no clue where you are coming up with this.
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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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[quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1291857001' post='949117']
He looks to the sidelines to get play because that's what the coaches tell him to do. Many teams do that. What college qb has shown he can read a defense ? Most college qb get the play from the sidelines and run the play with having the power to audible.
He has running skills so Auburn uses his skills by calling running plays for him. Doesn't mean he will run in the NFL, but it's nice to have that ability when the occasion happens
He doesn't ad lib the entire game. I have no clue where you are coming up with this.
[/quote]


every college QB looks to the sidelines for the play. Every college QB isn't looking to the sidelines just before they snap the ball for pre-snap adjustments. Newton is.


Newton's a superior athlete getting by on his athleticism to buy time while his WR's get open. That kind of play only gets you so far.
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bengalbutch Hall Of Fame

bengalbutch

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[quote name='Tigris' timestamp='1291817810' post='948971']
I haven't watched any Auburn games but[b] VY Vol. 2[/b] doesn't sound too great an idea to me.
[/quote]
He is nothing like Vince Young, nothing. Where are you coming up with that ?

Cam is a great thrower who is kind of a power runner because he is so big. He shrugs off tackles and sacks. Not as fast as Vince, but still elusive
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Inigo Montoya Hall Of Fame

Inigo Montoya

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Cam Newton will probably be the most discussed player in the coming draft. I'm starting to think that he could be a better NFL QB than I previously thought. The numbers don't lie. Newton is completing 67% of his pass attempts and sports a TD:INT ratio of 28/6. The dude can throw the ball and he has led his team to big wins against SEC competition. After watching an immobile Carson Palmer struggle these past few seasons, I'm starting to believe that mobility at QB is the wave of the future. Newton won't be able to run the ball in the NFL the way he has in college. He will have the athleticism and speed to evade pass rushers and extend plays.
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bengalbutch Hall Of Fame

bengalbutch

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291857247' post='949118']
every college QB looks to the sidelines for the play. [b] Every college QB isn't looking to the sidelines just before they snap the ball [/b]for pre-snap adjustments. Newton is.


Newton's a superior athlete getting by on his athleticism to buy time while his WR's get open. That kind of play only gets you so far.
[/quote]
Several schools do that, they will line up , then the qb looks to the sideline to get the play. I believe you're making a big deal out of nothing.

As for the last part of your statement. Rapistberger has made a career out of using his athleticism to buy time for his wr's to get open.

So now it's bad to be athletic with running ability and a strong arm with great touch, a winner and a leader ?
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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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[quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1291858059' post='949122']
Several schools do that, they will line up , then the qb looks to the sideline to get the play. I believe you're making a big deal out of nothing.

As for the last part of your statement. Rapistberger has made a career out of using his athleticism to buy time for his wr's to get open.

[b]So now it's bad to be athletic with running ability and a strong arm with great touch, a winner and a leader ?[/b]
[/quote]


Who said it was a bad thing? Doesn't mean it will translate to the NFL. Right now he's relying on athleticism, not skill and football knowledge.


Being able to adlib is great, but when its the primary part of your game, it will catch up to you. He won't be able to consistently do in the pros what he's doing in college.


You're right, many QB's do look to the sidelines for adjustments, and I'm willing to bet its the QB's who don't have NFL futures.


I know you and I have gone back and forth on Cam in recent weeks, but you've yet to show any proof as to why he will be an NFL success. You only point to what he's done in college, and we both know the way he plays in college isn't going to work in the NFL.


He's most comparable to Vick when he came out, though Vick was a better runner. Vick was an average 40-38-1 pre-jail. It wasn't until he learned how to be a true passer that Vick is now seeing huge success outside of what his athleticism got him. Vick will be the first to tell you that, and has.

And we'll agree to disagree on the leader part. He may be a great cheerleader, but that doesn't make you a good leader. He's not making pre-snap reads, audibling and moving players around, or coaching up guys on the sideline.
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bengalbutch Hall Of Fame

bengalbutch

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291861941' post='949135']
Who said it was a bad thing? Doesn't mean it will translate to the NFL. Right now he's relying on athleticism, not skill and football knowledge.


Being able to adlib is great, but when its the primary part of your game, it will catch up to you. He won't be able to consistently do in the pros what he's doing in college.


You're right, many QB's do look to the sidelines for adjustments, and I'm willing to bet its the QB's who don't have NFL futures.


I know you and I have gone back and forth on Cam in recent weeks, but you've yet to show any proof as to why he will be an NFL success. You only point to what he's done in college, and we both know the way he plays in college isn't going to work in the NFL.


He's most comparable to Vick when he came out, though Vick was a better runner. Vick was an average 40-38-1 pre-jail. It wasn't until he learned how to be a true passer that Vick is now seeing huge success outside of what his athleticism got him. Vick will be the first to tell you that, and has.

And we'll agree to disagree on the leader part. He may be a great cheerleader, but that doesn't make you a good leader. He's not making pre-snap reads, audibling and moving players around, or coaching up guys on the sideline.
[/quote]
Sounds good friend we'll pick this up next season after he is drafted and when he tries to make it in the NFL.
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Squirrlnutz Hall Of Fame

Squirrlnutz

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It seems that only a small handful of homers actually want us to take newton, that and the fact that I can't find a single draft site that has newton ranked as a top qb and even fewer that project him in the first round makes me feel a lot better that we won't continue destroying this franchise by wasting an early pick on a project qb.
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JBandJoeyV Hall Of Fame

JBandJoeyV

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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291861941' post='949135']
Who said it was a bad thing? Doesn't mean it will translate to the NFL. Right now he's relying on athleticism, not skill and football knowledge.


Being able to adlib is great, but when its the primary part of your game, it will catch up to you. He won't be able to consistently do in the pros what he's doing in college.


You're right, many QB's do look to the sidelines for adjustments, and I'm willing to bet its the QB's who don't have NFL futures.


I know you and I have gone back and forth on Cam in recent weeks, but you've yet to show any proof as to why he will be an NFL success. You only point to what he's done in college, and we both know the way he plays in college isn't going to work in the NFL.


He's most comparable to Vick when he came out, though Vick was a better runner. Vick was an average 40-38-1 pre-jail. It wasn't until he learned how to be a true passer that Vick is now seeing huge success outside of what his athleticism got him. Vick will be the first to tell you that, and has.

And we'll agree to disagree on the leader part. He may be a great cheerleader, but that doesn't make you a good leader. He's not making pre-snap reads, audibling and moving players around, or coaching up guys on the sideline.
[/quote]


I talked about this a lot before last years draft and Ill go over it again. (this isnt necessarily directed right at you just sayin...)


I dont think there is really a point in bashing a potential draft pick. Now I think you can say "I think we might get this guy or Id love to have this guy" but I just dont see the point in saying things like Ill be pissed if we draft this guy or that guy (Not saying you said that).

The reason I say this is because the coaches and scouts and management and everyone on the bengals will go through so much time studying every single play of the player's college career, interviewing him in person, talking to people he knows, college coaches, etc.

Who would I be to think I know more then all the bengals coaches and scouts and everything? They spend thousands times more preparing for the draft then I or anyone else on here.

With that being said, the only real way I would get too pissed with a first round draft pick is if it was a crazy reach or just a position that was completely unnecessary.

Not saying I think the bengals always make the right draft pick, but I guarantee that if I or anyone else went up against the bengals year in and year out or any other NFL team chances are the Bengals will out draft any of us more times then not.


So go ahead and debate on guys, but my only advice is dont get too up or too down on one player, because if we draft that player you are down on, chances are they will have way information into that player then any of us do.
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Khatmandude Hall Of Fame

Khatmandude

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[quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1291857001' post='949117']
He looks to the sidelines to get play because that's what the coaches tell him to do. Many teams do that. What college qb has shown he can read a defense ? Most college qb get the play from the sidelines and run the play with having the power to audible.
He has running skills so Auburn uses his skills by calling running plays for him. Doesn't mean he will run in the NFL, but it's nice to have that ability when the occasion happens
He doesn't ad lib the entire game. I have no clue where you are coming up with this.
[/quote]


[quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1291858059' post='949122']
Several schools do that, they will line up , then the qb looks to the sideline to get the play. I believe you're making a big deal out of nothing.

As for the last part of your statement. Rapistberger has made a career out of using his athleticism to buy time for his wr's to get open.

So now it's bad to be athletic with running ability and a strong arm with great touch, a winner and a leader ?
[/quote]


Agree with you bengalbutch.

People have NO IDEA if he can or can't read defenses. Absolutely no idea yet keep saying he can't. What's the motivation behind it? IMO, his race has something to do with it. Did these same people say Sam Bradford had any trouble reading college defenses?

This guy is going to have a nice NFL career. He has "it". I wouldn't mind taking him #1 overall if that's where we end up drafting. He's a once in a decade type of talent.

And arguing about it back and forth isn't going to do shit......we'll just have to wait until he's in the league and find out.
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akiliMVP Hall Of Fame

akiliMVP

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The difference is Bradford played in a passing spread offense for 4 years (3 years starter 1 year bench) and Newton has played in a spread option (running) offense for 2 years (1 year starting at Auburn and 1 year at Florida on the bench before he was arrested and transferred).

Bradford was widely known to be extremely intelligent, Newton the opposite.

Newton has tremendous physical tools but it has been shown time and time again that it takes more than that to be a good NFL player, especially at QB.
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Bengals1181 Hall Of Fame

Bengals1181

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[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1291912543' post='949247']
The difference is Bradford played in a passing spread offense for 4 years (3 years starter 1 year bench) and Newton has played in a spread option (running) offense for 2 years (1 year starting at Auburn and 1 year at Florida on the bench before he was arrested and transferred).

Bradford was widely known to be extremely intelligent, Newton the opposite.

Newton has tremendous physical tools but it has been shown time and time again that it takes more than that to be a good NFL player, especially at QB.
[/quote]


This. It has nothing to do with race (pretty stupid to bring it up to begin with). It has to do with reading defense and making adjustments.


Sam Bradford's not even a good example. Completely different offense with different responsibilities. Not all spread offenses are the same, and those two sure as hell aren't.
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