A mess only Cam Newton can fix

[CrazyIrishman5]

[quote name='BlackJesus' timestamp='1291893468' post='949208']
[center][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXRIt_ipCY4[/youtube]

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[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INxqYDAFSQ8&feature=related[/media]

Both suck!

[akiliMVP]

Scouts said the same thing about Tebow not being able to read an NFL defense. They come from basically the exact same offense. He's white too BTW...

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291919011' post='949263']
This. It has nothing to do with race (pretty stupid to bring it up to begin with). It has to do with reading defense and making adjustments.


Sam Bradford's not even a good example. Completely different offense with different responsibilities. Not all spread offenses are the same, and those two sure as hell aren't.
[/quote]


You wanna know what's really stupid? Watching a college QB play a handful of games and determining that he won't be able to read NFL defenses. And not just doubting if he can read NFL defenses, but making a definitive statement that he wont be able to. THAT'S stupid.

Suggesting his race plays a part in peoples' perception of him is a valid point.

Sam Bradford may have ran a different offense but he also looked to the sideline for "adjustments" as you call them. He also didn't determine his own pre-snap keys or determine the defensive coverage, it was done for him by coaches just like Newton's coaches do with him. Just like every college coach does with their QB in a spread offense.

Again, we'll see what Newton can do in the NFL after he gets drafted .... where he'll be a top 7 pick at worst IMO.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1291925191' post='949290']
Scouts said the same thing about Tebow not being able to read an NFL defense. They come from basically the exact same offense. He's white too BTW...
[/quote]


And there's no evidence to suggest Tebow can't read NFL defenses either. There just isn't. Everything is conjecture at this point. To make a definitive statement that Tebow and/or Newton can't read NFL defenses is rather ignorant. It's ok to express concern about their ability to do so but to make a blanket statement? Stupid.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='IKOTA' timestamp='1291928307' post='949303']
You wanna know what's really stupid? Watching a college QB play a handful of games and determining that he won't be able to read NFL defenses. And not just doubting if he can read NFL defenses, but making a definitive statement that he wont be able to. THAT'S stupid.

Suggesting his race plays a part in peoples' perception of him is a valid point.

Sam Bradford may have ran a different offense but he also looked to the sideline for "adjustments" as you call them. He also didn't determine his own pre-snap keys or determine the defensive coverage, it was done for him by coaches just like Newton's coaches do with him. Just like every college coach does with their QB in a spread offense.

Again, we'll see what Newton can do in the NFL after he gets drafted .... where he'll be a top 7 pick at worst IMO.
[/quote]



I'm not sure I ever made a definitive statement about his entire career.

What makes your opinion any better than mine?


He's a run first QB in a gimmick offense that isn't given a lot of responsibility as a QB and relies heavily on his athleticism to succeed.

Those with concerns have very valid concerns, and no it has nothing to do with the color of his skin.

[Dautcom08]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291861941' post='949135']
And we'll agree to disagree on the leader part. He may be a great cheerleader, but that doesn't make you a good leader. He's not making pre-snap reads, audibling and moving players around, or coaching up guys on the sideline.
[/quote]

So a leader is someone who makes pre-snap reads, audibles and moves players around? Could have fooled me. I thought they were someone who elevates the play of everyone around them, elevates expectations, someone others leave their heart on the field for, leading their team to victory against all costs (9 times), while excelling at their own position. All things Cam does pretty god damn well. Just because he's having fun while doing it doesn't just demote him to cheerleader status. There's no way you can convince me that anyone on Auburn's sidelines doesn't feel the same way.

The kid has it. I agree he may need some fine tuning and coaching along the way, but he's going to have a successul NFL career with the tools and talent he has which don't come around very often. Not saying he's the solution or in the equation for the Bengals, but I'd be pretty god damn happy with him on this football team if it does happen.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Dautcom08' timestamp='1291931352' post='949319']
[b]So a leader is someone who makes pre-snap reads, audibles and moves players around? [/b] Could have fooled me. I thought they were someone who elevates the play of everyone around them, elevates expectations, someone others leave their heart on the field for, leading their team to victory against all costs (9 times), while excelling at their own position. All things Cam does pretty god damn well. Just because he's having fun while doing it doesn't just demote him to cheerleader status. There's no way you can convince me that anyone on Auburn's sidelines doesn't feel the same way.

The kid has it. I agree he may need some fine tuning and coaching along the way, but he's going to have a successul NFL career with the tools and talent he has which don't come around very often. Not saying he's the solution or in the equation for the Bengals, but I'd be pretty god damn happy with him on this football team if it does happen.
[/quote]

It's certainly part of it.

[bengaled]

welcome to a preview of the next five months! it should get interesting!

[akiliMVP]

If we draft a QB in the top 5, Palmer is gone, unless he takes a paycut which seems unlikely. Replacing Palmer with someone as extremely raw as Newton just doesn't sound like a smart move. The only QB I would take in the top 5 if I were the Bengals is Luck. He is pro ready.

Buffalo is a great spot for Newton. He fits their offense (Gailey loves mobile QBs and they run somewhat of a spread) and he can learn under Fitzpatrick for a year or so. I'm not debating that he's not a 1st round pick or even a top 10 pick. He has all the tools. The mental aspect (maturity, experience, system he played in, intelligence) is what could separate him from being Vince Young 2.0 or Randall Cunningham in the NFL. I don't think the Bengals are in a position to take that risk.

You may not like the comparison but him and Vince Young are eerily similar. Both great runners, VY was a better passer in college and had more experience, similar offenses (VY was more pass heavy but still spread option) and both had character concerns. They are similar in size and speed, Newton has the stronger arm though. So basically he's a less experienced Vince Young with a stronger arm.

[bengaled]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1291934270' post='949338']
If we draft a QB in the top 5, Palmer is gone, unless he takes a paycut which seems unlikely. Replacing Palmer with someone as extremely raw as Newton just doesn't sound like a smart move. The only QB I would take in the top 5 if I were the Bengals is Luck. He is pro ready.

Buffalo is a great spot for Newton. He fits their offense (Gailey loves mobile QBs and they run somewhat of a spread) and he can learn under Fitzpatrick for a year or so. I'm not debating that he's not a 1st round pick or even a top 10 pick. He has all the tools. The mental aspect (maturity, experience, system he played in, intelligence) is what could separate him from being Vince Young 2.0 or Randall Cunningham in the NFL. I don't think the Bengals are in a position to take that risk.

You may not like the comparison but him and Vince Young are eerily similar. Both great runners, VY was a better passer in college and had more experience, similar offenses (VY was more pass heavy but still spread option) and both had character concerns. They are similar in size and speed, Newton has the stronger arm though. So basically he's a less experienced Vince Young with a stronger arm.
[/quote]


yes, mack brown's passing attack is, and was, much more advanced than anything cam newton worked with this year. i think we can call that a given.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1291934270' post='949338']
If we draft a QB in the top 5, Palmer is gone, unless he takes a paycut which seems unlikely. Replacing Palmer with someone as extremely raw as Newton just doesn't sound like a smart move. The only QB I would take in the top 5 if I were the Bengals is Luck. He is pro ready.

Buffalo is a great spot for Newton. He fits their offense (Gailey loves mobile QBs and they run somewhat of a spread) and he can learn under Fitzpatrick for a year or so. I'm not debating that he's not a 1st round pick or even a top 10 pick. He has all the tools. The mental aspect (maturity, experience, system he played in, intelligence) is what could separate him from being Vince Young 2.0 or Randall Cunningham in the NFL. I don't think the Bengals are in a position to take that risk.

You may not like the comparison but him and Vince Young are eerily similar. Both great runners, VY was a better passer in college and had more experience, similar offenses (VY was more pass heavy but still spread option) and both had character concerns. They are similar in size and speed, Newton has the stronger arm though. So basically he's a less experienced Vince Young with a stronger arm.
[/quote]


did Gailey run the triple option at Georgia Tech, or was that not until after he left?


And yea, I don't get why people have a problem with the Vince Young comparison. It's very valid. Similar skills, similar-ish offenses. Difference being Vince is a more accomplished passer, and Vince's offense passed far more often. Vince had 322 rushes in his final 2 years at Texas. Newton has 242 rushes this year alone.

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291935619' post='949344']
did Gailey run the triple option at Georgia Tech, or was that not until after he left?


And yea, I don't get why people have a problem with the Vince Young comparison. It's very valid. Similar skills, similar-ish offenses. Difference being Vince is a more accomplished passer, and Vince's offense passed far more often. Vince had 322 rushes in his final 2 years at Texas. Newton has 242 rushes this year alone.
[/quote]
Not until Gailey left and they brought in that guy from Navy whose name I'm too lazy to look up

[BigDawgBengal]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1291936534' post='949351']
Not until Gailey left and they brought in that guy from Navy whose name I'm too lazy to look up
[/quote]
Paul Johnson.

[bengalbutch]

[quote name='Squirrlnutz' timestamp='1291862503' post='949140']
It seems that only a small handful of homers actually want us to take newton, that and the fact that I can't find a single draft site that has newton ranked as a top qb [b]and even fewer that project him in the first round[/b] makes me feel a lot better that we won't continue destroying this franchise by wasting an early pick on a project qb.
[/quote]
Care to make a little wager whether he goes in the first round or not ?

[JC]

Hard not to be enamored with Andrew Luck. Throws on the run. Good, strong arm. Extremely intelligent. Great Size (6'4 235) which is only 2 inches and 15 pounds smaller then Cam Newton. Has some scrambling ability. Runs a pro-style offense and has exceeded in it already throwing 28 touchdowns and leading a weak team to an 11 win season.


Cam has a ton of raw potential though. Seems to have a good touch on his throws. Has crazy swagger. Dude knows he is the baddest. Has great scrambling ability. Best passer in pro-football this year. Most dominant player in college football.

I personally would take Andrew Luck, just because I think he has potential if you put some good pieces around him to be the an elite QB who can win a few super bowls, but if Cam maxes his potential, he is headed to a few super bowls himself. He is going to have to work hard though to read those defenses. It's kind of how Jerome comes from Coastal Carolina running a few routes and getting away with it because he is so much more athletic then everyone. That is what Cam is doing right now. Just better than everyone around him.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1291934270' post='949338']
If we draft a QB in the top 5, Palmer is gone, unless he takes a paycut which seems unlikely. Replacing Palmer with someone as extremely raw as Newton just doesn't sound like a smart move. The only QB I would take in the top 5 if I were the Bengals is Luck. He is pro ready.

Buffalo is a great spot for Newton. He fits their offense (Gailey loves mobile QBs and they run somewhat of a spread) and he can learn under Fitzpatrick for a year or so. I'm not debating that he's not a 1st round pick or even a top 10 pick. He has all the tools. The mental aspect (maturity, experience, system he played in, intelligence) is what could separate him from being Vince Young 2.0 or Randall Cunningham in the NFL. I don't think the Bengals are in a position to take that risk.

You may not like the comparison but him and Vince Young are eerily similar. Both great runners, VY was a better passer in college and had more experience, similar offenses (VY was more pass heavy but still spread option) and both had character concerns. They are similar in size and speed, Newton has the stronger arm though. So basically he's a less experienced Vince Young with a stronger arm.
[/quote]


You know......I can't disagree with anything you posted there. That's exactly how I feel about things for the most part. I was defending Newton against ignorant statements stating for certain that he's incapable of reading defenses.

[CrazyIrishman5]

[quote name='IKOTA' timestamp='1291944791' post='949377']
You know......I can't disagree with anything you posted there. That's exactly how I feel about things for the most part. I was defending Newton against ignorant statements stating for certain that he's incapable of reading defenses.
[/quote]
He can't read a defense, he has not read a defense, his coach can read a defense because he makes the calls when he comes to the line. He my learn to read a defense but he is 3 years behind Luck and to say he can come in to the NFL and start reading defense is crazy!



4 read and 5 defense!

[Le Tigre]

Talent...mental ability...physical tools...yeah probably all there.

But I detect something in him that I also saw in Ryan Leaf. It's this smirky, thank-you-small-people-for-your-adoration, persona. He's the cock of the walk right now, and he knows it.

And the stuff with the recruitment still bugs me. Smoke/fire sort of thing.

Did you ever get that sense about somebody that just didn't sit right? For me, it's this guy.

[bengalbutch]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1291935619' post='949344']
did Gailey run the triple option at Georgia Tech, or was that not until after he left?


[b]And yea, I don't get why people have a problem with the Vince Young comparison. It's very valid. Similar skills[/b], similar-ish offenses. Difference being Vince is a more accomplished passer, and Vince's offense passed far more often. Vince had 322 rushes in his final 2 years at Texas. Newton has 242 rushes this year alone.
[/quote]
Vince Young was heavily criticized for having just above average arm strength, and poor accuracy and was drafted #3 overall in 2006. Cam Newton is very accurate, has a strong arm and their running styles are nothing alike. What's valid about that ?

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1291951036' post='949397']
Vince Young was heavily criticized for having just above average arm strength, and poor accuracy and was drafted #3 overall in 2006. Cam Newton is very accurate, has a strong arm and their running styles are nothing alike. What's valid about that ?
[/quote]


their completion percentages aren't that far off.


Both were similar players in college. You don't agree with it, that's cool.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='JC' timestamp='1291940521' post='949363']
I personally would take Andrew Luck, just because I think he has potential [size="6"][size="6"]if[/size] [/size][size="4"]you put some good pieces around him to be the an elite QB[/size] who can win a few super bowls, but if Cam maxes his potential, he is headed to a few super bowls himself. He is going to have to work hard though to read those defenses. It's kind of how Jerome comes from Coastal Carolina running a few routes and getting away with it because he is so much more athletic then everyone. That is what Cam is doing right now. Just better than everyone around him.
[/quote]

Ah, if you're a Bengals fan, then be very wary of this"IF" type of statement! Sounds eerily similar to Carson Palmer, if you ask me. Shit, or any other drop-back NFL passer that plays for a team that ignores its offensive line issues.

[BFIH]

I haven't seen that much of Cam Newton - I looked up a few highlight videos on YouTube and they were nothing to sneeze at. The guy can obviously run the football and I saw at least one where he threw the ball a good 50 yards and on the money. He has a very good shot if he can learn the NFL game -- all the physical tools are there for him to be an elite NFL quarterback.

Having said that, I'm still even more impressed by the film I've seen of Andrew Luck.

[eva4ben-gal]

[quote name='akiliMVP' timestamp='1291934270' post='949338']
If we draft a QB in the top 5, Palmer is gone, unless he takes a paycut which seems unlikely. Replacing Palmer with someone as extremely raw as Newton just doesn't sound like a smart move. The only QB I would take in the top 5 if I were the Bengals is Luck. He is pro ready.

Buffalo is a great spot for Newton. He fits their offense (Gailey loves mobile QBs and they run somewhat of a spread) and he can learn under Fitzpatrick for a year or so. I'm not debating that he's not a 1st round pick or even a top 10 pick. He has all the tools. The mental aspect (maturity, experience, system he played in, intelligence) is what could separate him from being Vince Young 2.0 or Randall Cunningham in the NFL. I don't think the Bengals are in a position to take that risk.

You may not like the comparison but him and Vince Young are eerily similar. Both great runners, VY was a better passer in college and had more experience, similar offenses (VY was more pass heavy but still spread option) and both had character concerns. They are similar in size and speed, Newton has the stronger arm though. So basically he's a less experienced Vince Young with a stronger arm.
[/quote]
Why couldn't Cam sit behind Carson for a few years if you think he'd sit behind Fitzpatrick in Buffalo? There will be a rookie slotting system this year hopefully so he shouldn't be as expensive as years past and the Bengals will hopefully have a new OC that might be able to find a few ways to get contribution out of an athlete like Newton even if he isn't starting at QB.
I don't know who I'd want the Bengals to take but I wouldn't rule out Newton yet.

[oldschooler]

[b]NEWTON FOR HEISMAN:[/b] Palmer gave Auburn's Cam Newton his top vote for the Heisman Trophy, which will be awarded on Saturday in New York. Palmer also said the off-the-field controversies surrounding Newton did not play a role. "It was right about the time he was cleared by the NCAA and being a USC guy and seeing how thorough they can be and how meticulous they can be with the whole Reggie Bush situation, as strict as they were in that case, I'm sure they handled it and attacked it the same way they did Reggie Bush and the same way they did Cam Newton," said Palmer about the vote. "As long as they cleared him, he's not guilty. That's the way I looked at it."




[url="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101210/SPT02/12100342/1066/Chad-braces-for-another-tough-one-at-Heinz"]http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101210/SPT02/12100342/1066/Chad-braces-for-another-tough-one-at-Heinz[/url]

[Squirrlnutz]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' timestamp='1291955711' post='949408']
[b]Why couldn't Cam sit behind Carson for a few years if you think he'd sit behind Fitzpatrick in Buffalo? [/b]There will be a rookie slotting system this year hopefully so he shouldn't be as expensive as years past and the Bengals will hopefully have a new OC that might be able to find a few ways to get contribution out of an athlete like Newton even if he isn't starting at QB.
I don't know who I'd want the Bengals to take but I wouldn't rule out Newton yet.
[/quote]


With all the awful bitching and moaning and complaining (not saying it was you, just in general) going on around here about how much of a disappointment this team was this season...I can't fathom why anyone would be okay with using our best draft pick (and possibly THE best draft pick) in 2011 on someone who might ride the pine for 2 years learning the game.


Everyone take a moment and personally rank the top 10 best players on our team.

If Carson Palmer appears on your list, you have gone bat-shit crazy if you think we need to take...waste...a top 5 pick on a QB. I don't even have an adjective to describe how ridiculous you are if you think that pick needs to be a project QB.

If Carson isn't on your list, I'd like to see the 10 that are.