A mess only Cam Newton can fix

[bengalsfan850]

[quote name='bengalbutch' timestamp='1291677573' post='948561']
Just asking, if we moved down to # 28, picked up two extra picks and drafted Cam @ 28. You would be pissed at that ?
[/quote]

not as pissed, if we go QB i just feel like it has to be luck and if he's gone and we're hell bent on it mallet. but if we got enough picks that turned into quality players i could live with trying to develop him because the potential is there it's just when picking in the 1st round unless it's the 32nd pick your picking for someone who can help you get that 32nd pick aka when the superbowl and i'd rather pick up a QB where we know what we are getting like luck

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='GoBengals' timestamp='1291689250' post='948629']
fans put too much power in the HC and OC/DC hands.

1. you have to have good players
2. you have to have good position coaches, this is VITAL in developing draft picks and UDFA talent, making sure guys know their roles in any given scheme, and are prepared for the game each week.
3. you need decision makers who dont make poor personnel decisions that set you back, the balance of risk and reward in draft picks is soo very hard to gauge, ther truly is a decent amount of luck involved, you have ncaa coaches lying to you to get players drafted higher so their program has that for recruiting (look we had 3 players drafted in the first), then you need off field issues to be minimal if at all existant, then effort and willingness to play hard and not expect to be a start walking into the nfl from college... all of those, you get a GREAT pick, some of those a good pick, one or two wrong and it could be a total bust, and this can hurt you greatly.
[/quote]


Answer me this then go...

You dont blame Mike Brown, Marvin, or Brat for this team not being good this year.

Yet you say the problem is we dont have good players. Isnt it the owner/GM/HC/and OC's job to get good players via draft or free agency?
Or better yet isnt it the coaches job to develop players we already have? Which leads into your number 2. You need to have good position coaches. I agree. But isnt it the Owner/GM/HC and maybe even OC job to make sure the position coaches are good?
And third having decision makers who dont make poor personnel decisions, once again isnt that up to the owner/gm/head coach?


I just dont understand how you think none of our problems can be blamed on Mike, Marvin, or Brat. Just dont get it.

[NASTYNATI]

Cam newton will end up the next Jamarcus Russell / Vince Young... No thanks

[Squirrlnutz]

Am I drunk or did GO say the OC needs to be replaced? Somebody bookmark this.

Sarcasm aside that was a pretty solid post GO.

[Hooky]

Didn't you guys hear that he's the best football player of all time? Tebow's haze haircut hasn't even grown back yet and he's already being replaced in the media as best of all time. They can't just talk about how good these players are, they have to have one historical college football messiah and suck him dry.

It doesn't matter where he's projected, nobody knows if he'll be a good NFL QB. It's laughable that JT (Doesn't he just so happen to be an Auburn guy?) or anybody is getting swept away by the hype and discussing this. But the big question is if the Bengals draft him, how much will they have to pay Cecil?

[Who Dey Forever]

[quote name='ColorChanginClique' timestamp='1291672064' post='948527']
He doesn't play oline or MLB or safety....so how does he fix this???
[/quote]
Strange. Exactly what I was thinking

[bengalbutch]

[quote name='Hooky' timestamp='1291722620' post='948663']
Didn't you guys hear that he's the best football player of all time? Tebow's haze haircut hasn't even grown back yet and he's already being replaced in the media as best of all time. They can't just talk about how good these players are, they have to have one historical college football messiah and suck him dry.

It doesn't matter where he's projected, nobody knows if he'll be a good NFL QB. It's laughable that [b]JT (Doesn't he just so happen to be an Auburn guy?)[/b] or anybody is getting swept away by the hype and discussing this. But the big question is if the Bengals draft him, how much will they have to pay Cecil?
[/quote]
WVU

[|BlackJesus|]

[b]Someone’s gotta say it ...

[i](looks around)[/i]

Ok I guess I will ...

If Cam Newton was white he'd be a guaranteed #1 pick. However, because of the Akili Smith/Byron Leftwich/Vince Young/Jamarcus Russell fiascos in the past - and that stigma that QB is a "thinkin position" (and that i.e. white guys are more intelligent) - he will probably go #'s 6-10.

Newton's athleticism is almost a curse in some regards as the conventional wisdom is that you either are [color="#FF0000"]( a )[/color] athletic and fast with a strong arm but low football IQ -or- [color="#FF0000"]( b )[/color] slow and methodical with great accuracy and high understanding of the game. However, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Tim Tebitch for fucks sake was heralded as the next Johnny Unitas, despite the fact that he was a glorified H-back who occasionally badly threw the ball. As for Cam Newton, he seems legit and very athletic, with a huge arm, and great leadership abilities. Now, if we could only dunk him in Michael Jacksons bath tub - so he won't get hit with the "he'd be a better WR" that other fast black QB's usually get stuck with.[/b]

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='BlackJesus' timestamp='1291766276' post='948835']
[b]Someone’s gotta say it ...

[i](looks around)[/i]

Ok I guess I will ...

If Cam Newton was white he'd be a guaranteed #1 pick. However, because of the Akili Smith/Byron Leftwich/Vince Young/Jamarcus Russell fiascos in the past - and that stigma that QB is a "thinkin position" (and that i.e. white guys are more intelligent) - he will probably go #'s 6-10.

Newton's athleticism is almost a curse in some regards as the conventional wisdom is that you either are [color="#FF0000"]( a )[/color] athletic and fast with a strong arm but low football IQ -or- [color="#FF0000"]( b )[/color] slow and methodical with great accuracy and high understanding of the game. However, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Tim Tebitch for fucks sake was heralded as the next Johnny Unitas, despite the fact that he was a glorified H-back who occasionally badly threw the ball. As for Cam Newton, he seems legit and very athletic, with a huge arm, and great leadership abilities. Now, if we could only dunk him in Michael Jacksons bath tub - so he won't get hit with the "he'd be a better WR" that other fast black QB's usually get stuck with.[/b]
[/quote]

I already said it.

I would have no problem with Cam Newton if our coaches and scouts/other experts and what not think he is a good pick.

The comparisons to Jamarcus Russell and Akili Smith are laughable.

[|BlackJesus|]

[center][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLIJlIRvcm8[/youtube]

[img]http://www.thewareaglereader.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/yes-we-cam-small.jpg[/img][/center]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='BlackJesus' timestamp='1291766276' post='948835']
[b]Someone’s gotta say it ...

[i](looks around)[/i]

Ok I guess I will ...

If Cam Newton was white he'd be a guaranteed #1 pick. However, because of the Akili Smith/Byron Leftwich/Vince Young/Jamarcus Russell fiascos in the past - and that stigma that QB is a "thinkin position" (and that i.e. white guys are more intelligent) - he will probably go #'s 6-10.

Newton's athleticism is almost a curse in some regards as the conventional wisdom is that you either are [color="#FF0000"]( a )[/color] athletic and fast with a strong arm but low football IQ -or- [color="#FF0000"]( b )[/color] slow and methodical with great accuracy and high understanding of the game. However, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Tim Tebitch for fucks sake was heralded as the next Johnny Unitas, despite the fact that he was a glorified H-back who occasionally badly threw the ball. As for Cam Newton, he seems legit and very athletic, with a huge arm, and great leadership abilities. Now, if we could only dunk him in Michael Jacksons bath tub - so he won't get hit with the "he'd be a better WR" that other fast black QB's usually get stuck with.[/b]
[/quote]

The corpses littering the landscape of failed NFL QB's knows no racial boundary. Newton looks great, but he is also a college player. No guarantees in the draft, remember?

[CTA513]

[quote name='BlackJesus' timestamp='1291766276' post='948835']
[b]Someone’s gotta say it ...

[i](looks around)[/i]

Ok I guess I will ...

If Cam Newton was white he'd be a guaranteed #1 pick. However, because of the Akili Smith/Byron Leftwich/Vince Young/Jamarcus Russell fiascos in the past - and that stigma that QB is a "thinkin position" (and that i.e. white guys are more intelligent) - he will probably go #'s 6-10.

Newton's athleticism is almost a curse in some regards as the conventional wisdom is that you either are [color="#FF0000"]( a )[/color] athletic and fast with a strong arm but low football IQ -or- [color="#FF0000"]( b )[/color] slow and methodical with great accuracy and high understanding of the game. However, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Tim Tebitch for fucks sake was heralded as the next Johnny Unitas, despite the fact that he was a glorified H-back who occasionally badly threw the ball. As for Cam Newton, he seems legit and very athletic, with a huge arm, and great leadership abilities. Now, if we could only dunk him in Michael Jacksons bath tub - so he won't get hit with the "he'd be a better WR" that other fast black QB's usually get stuck with.[/b]
[/quote]


If Newton was white he would still have a hard time being the #1 pick.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='CTA513' timestamp='1291767474' post='948842']
If Newton was white he would still have a hard time being the #1 pick.
[/quote]





Yeah. Tim Tebow, who many compare Newton to skill and system wise, did it for 3 years instead
of just 1, and didn't have all the baggage hanging around his neck, and he wasn't
the #1 pick either.

[Turd Ferguson]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1291767819' post='948846']
Yeah. Tim Tebow, who many compare Newton to skill and system wise, did it for 3 years instead
of just 1, and didn't have all the baggage hanging around his neck, and he wasn't
the #1 pick either.
[/quote]

Cam Newton is a MUCH better pro prospect than Tim Tebow. And if it weren't for the McDaniels' goofy ass falling in love with his Christ-like intangibles, he may not have gone in the first round at all.

Newton has everything you could want physically, but it remains to be seen how that translates to the NFL level. While the offense he plays in at Auburn is perfect for his talents as a college player, it isn't doing him any favors in preparing him for the next level. I don't think I've ever seen the guy take a snap from under center, and he definitely doesn't have to make many reads.

And yes, there are definite concerns about his mental makeup. Not because he's black, but because he is a fucking bonehead who makes stupid decisions off of the football field. I don't trust him with the kind of money you have to pay a first round quarterback.

[bengalbutch]

[quote name='CTA513' timestamp='1291767474' post='948842']
If Newton was white he would still have a hard time being the #1 pick.
[/quote]
I haven't heard anyone say he should be the #1 pick. Just a first round pick.
Didn't Sam Bradford play in a spread offense in college & rarely under center ?

[Jason]

This is essentially the same team that swept the division last year. We are NOT so far away from contending that drafting a QB in the top 5 should even be a thought.

Carson showed on Sunday what he can do when things are clicking. He is NOT the problem.

Fix the team around him and we will get back to the playoffs MUCH faster than starting over.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

Cam is Newton is the real deal..... He is far better than VY, Jamarcus Russell.....Akili...whoever....

That being said... We don't need him. Fix the offensive line and play calling and Carson will be fine.

[Jason]

[quote name='CJandTO' timestamp='1291766499' post='948837']
I already said it.

I would have no problem with Cam Newton if our coaches and scouts/other experts and what not think he is a good pick.

[b]The comparisons to Jamarcus Russell and Akili Smith are laughable.[/b]
[/quote]

Why?

Athletic QBs who had 1 really good year at the FBS level (although Russel wasn't quite as athletic and had 1 good year and 1 very good year).

Yes, it's possible he could also be Culpepper/McNabb/McNair, but there is an equal (at least) chance he could be a complete bust.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1291771290' post='948863']
Why?

Athletic QBs who had 1 really good year at the FBS level (although Russel wasn't quite as athletic and had 1 good year and 1 very good year).

Yes, it's possible he could also be Culpepper/McNabb/McNair, but there is an equal (at least) chance he could be a complete bust.
[/quote]

Really?


Go look at how many rushing yards cam newton had compared to Russell and Smith.


Ill give you a hint, Newtons was over 1400, Russells and Smith were both under 200.

Thats why its laughable.



Not saying that rushing yards will help him be a good pro qb, but Newton is not the same type of QB as Russell or Smith.

[JBandJoeyV]

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1291770922' post='948859']
This is essentially the same team that swept the division last year. We are NOT so far away from contending that drafting a QB in the top 5 should even be a thought.

Carson showed on Sunday what he can do when things are clicking. He is NOT the problem.

Fix the team around him and we will get back to the playoffs MUCH faster than starting over.
[/quote]


For me it depends on what we do in a lot of other areas that will determine what to do at QB.


If we completely clean house and get rid of Marvin, Brat, Chad, TO then we might as well let carson go too. If we do that its gonna take a few years to get to where we need to be, and Id rather have a qb entering his 3rd or 4th year then a beat up Carson getting close to 35 years old.

If we dont clean house and keep most of the same core and just try to improve the lines and stuff then Im fine with keeping Carson.



Its all about where you see this team going in the next 1-2 years. If you dont think we are going to contend till 2013 or so then I can definitely understand wanting a new QB. If you think we still have the talent to contend next year or 2012 then you keep carson.

At least thats how i feel.

[|Harley|]

No Cam Newton. While even I know he won't make a good pro QB, why risk it even on "potential.". There are so many other needs.

BTW, JT is just as bad a blogger as he was a player. No more JT.

[|Numbers|]

[quote name='Harley' timestamp='1291772181' post='948866']
No Cam Newton. While even I know he won't make a good pro QB, why risk it even on "potential.". There are so many other needs.

BTW, JT is just as bad a blogger as he was a player. No more JT.
[/quote]
[b]
NO MORE JT. ...and No More Paul Alexander.... FUCK HIM and all who support him...[/b]

[bubba]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1291771134' post='948861']
Cam is Newton is the real deal..... He is far better than VY, Jamarcus Russell.....Akili...whoever....

That being said... We don't need him. Fix the offensive line and play calling and Carson will be fine.
[/quote]
this ^

[Since 87]

Actually there was a pretty big debate on whether Tebow's skill set would transfer to the next level and 90% of analysts out there agreed that he would not be a good NFL QB. And thus everybody was floored when the Broncos took him in the 1st round. He wasn't even in the green room in NY where all of the top picks sit. I think it's a pretty decent comparison though, and actually shows you that if Newton were white, there would be just as much scrutiny as to where he'd be drafted. It could also show us that the Broncos war room was lead by a bunch of klansmen.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Turd Ferguson' timestamp='1291768646' post='948853']
Cam Newton is a MUCH better pro prospect than Tim Tebow. And if it weren't for the McDaniels' goofy ass falling in love with his Christ-like intangibles, he may not have gone in the first round at all.
[/QUOTE]

Turd, (and I hope you don't mind a bunghole calling you a turd, after all these years) you couldn't be more right. And I have to add that "Christ-Like Intangibles" will be the name of my new rock band if I ever get it together (I won't).

[QUOTE]
Newton has everything you could want physically, [b]but it remains to be seen how that translates to the NFL level[/b]. While the offense he plays in at Auburn is perfect for his talents as a college player, it isn't doing him any favors in preparing him for the next level. I don't think I've ever seen the guy take a snap from under center, and he definitely doesn't have to make many reads.

And yes, there are definite concerns about his mental makeup. [b]Not because he's black, but because he is a fucking bonehead who makes stupid decisions off of the football field. I don't trust him with the kind of money you have to pay a first round quarterback.[/b]
[/quote]

Christ, I couldn't agree more with this assesment.

[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1291770922' post='948859']
This is essentially the same team that swept the division last year. We are NOT so far away from contending that drafting a QB in the top 5 should even be a thought.

Carson showed on Sunday what he can do when things are clicking. He is NOT the problem.

Fix the team around him and we will get back to the playoffs MUCH faster than starting over.
[/quote]


I totally agree. Not having an o-line or a defense tends to be detrimental.

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' timestamp='1291771134' post='948861']
Cam is Newton is the real deal..... He is far better than VY, Jamarcus Russell.....Akili...whoever....

That being said... We don't need him. [b]Fix the offensive line and play calling and Carson will be fine[/b].
[/quote]

That totally remains to be seen. Vince Young was an [i]incredible[/i] collegiate QB...NFL....not so much.

And the bolded is true.