Dunlap or MJ

[Jason]

Dunlap will go the way of Andre

 

3/$18M?

 

I could live with that.

[cincity]

MJ is tough and solid, he brings great energy.  He's stout against the run and can put pressure on the QB, ....BUT......  When the defense needs a big play, needs to get off the field, Carlos is the one that normally steps up (See the Titans game in 2011 and there are probably even more).... You can always find decent high energy players, but to "Play makers" are hard to find.  IMO this team doesnt have much of. We have solid team play, but playmakers are rare.

[texbengal]

MJ is tough and solid, he brings great energy.  He's stout against the run and can put pressure on the QB, ....BUT......  When the defense needs a big play, needs to get off the field, Carlos is the one that normally steps up (See the Titans game in 2011 and there are probably even more).... You can always find decent high energy players, but to "Play makers" are hard to find.  IMO this team doesnt have much of. We have solid team play, but playmakers are rare.

 

I would agree with that on defense - I would add Geno to the mix of playmakers, and I think Leon in the second half of the year showed that ability, too. VB seems to have that ability at times. Bottom line, finding playmakers is hard, but if you look around the league, I think most everyone lacks those. At least there are a lot of good players here, including some nice depth at a most positions. 

 

Dunlap has shown that propensity at times, but he doesn't bring the consistency that MJ does. Hope this is the year for him... but I said that last year. 

[Oldcat]

MJ is tough and solid, he brings great energy.  He's stout against the run and can put pressure on the QB, ....BUT......  When the defense needs a big play, needs to get off the field, Carlos is the one that normally steps up (See the Titans game in 2011 and there are probably even more).... You can always find decent high energy players, but to "Play makers" are hard to find.  IMO this team doesnt have much of. We have solid team play, but playmakers are rare.

 

I guess I would buy into that more if we hadn't had years when neither were able to be found.

 

The contra argument is that without MJ holding the line for 50 or so plays, the splash guy's one play won't matter that much.

[scharm]

 

I guess I would buy into that more if we hadn't had years when neither were able to be found.

 

The contra argument is that without MJ holding the line for 50 or so plays, the splash guy's one play won't matter that much.

 

True.   Similar to Brandon Johnson or Chris Henry.   They fill a role.  They fill it very well.   Then people try to equate that into full time starter production.

[HairOnFire]

Dunlap will go the way of Andre

 

Today is the day?

[scharm]

 

Today is the day?

 

Probably tomorrow......

[B.A.B.]

Dunlap has 20 career sacks in 3 years along with 4 force fumbles just from last year, and he constantly pressures the quarterback , MJ has 23 in four years, Dunlap impacts the game far more greater then MJ does . There is no way the Bengals can have three high salary guys on the dline so its gonna be Atkins and either MJ or Dunlap that will be here next year.

He's used in situational roles, has fresher legs, and is normally next to Geno. I dunno if we watch the same games, but MJ is better. He's consistent. He plays the run well. He gets after motherfuckers on a more consultant basis. I don't want someone who flashes that shit every now and then. Not as our #1 priority

This "playmaker" in Dunlap had an off year. You wanna bank on him having another 2011? C'mon son.

[The PatternMaster]

They can afford both, I hope they re-sign them both, but I doubt they will. Dunlap is a big play maker but can't stay healthy, while MJ is not as much of a big play guy but he's consistent and relatively injury free.

 

At the end of the day they need to resign them both, if they don't then the GM is a dumbass because they can afford it.

[eva4ben-gal]

The Giants were able to keep their line together and Andy won't command the type of contract they were paying Eli, I think the team will be able to get them all signed.

[T-Dub]

They can afford both, I hope they re-sign them both, but I doubt they will. Dunlap is a big play maker but can't stay healthy, while MJ is not as much of a big play guy but he's consistent and relatively injury free.

 

At the end of the day they need to resign them both, if they don't then the GM is a dumbass because they can afford it.

 

 

Gee.. Em?  

 

:pointlaff:

[JC]

Here's a good article on Carlos and effective he was on the best defensive line in the league: http://www.cincyjungle.com/2013/3/7/4075462/carlos-dunlaps-sack-totals-are-misleading

 

 

Long story short, he had most the most QB hits and the second most QB hurries with 34 and that is splitting time with Robert.  I think it would be a blow to our defense if we lost him.  I know a pressure isn't a sack, but a lot of turnovers are direct results of pressures.

 

Keep them both.  Hopefully they do not have unrealistic expectations..

[scharm]

It's like the old Seinfeld show.   Leave them wanting more.    Dunlap has been great filling his role.   Chris Henry was great at filling his role.

 

In both situations fans craved more and attempted to calculate their production in a limited role into full time starter snaps and conclude that they could be better than the current option in that role.

 

It happens but it's not a slam dunk. 

[T-Dub]

^ Right, and unless/until Dunlap takes over as a full-time starter there shouldn't be too much difficulty in signing both.

[bengaled]

robert geathers influences this whole discussion, yet i've not heard his name mentioned once throughout it. if robert wasn't so well respected by this coaching staff, you'd see carlos playing a lot more than he does. robert plays so well against the run, while remaining such a big influence in the locker room, that it creates a place for him in our DL rotation. that's not a knock on carlos, more so a testament to robert, who despite his age, continues to be among the top rated DL against the rush. it also creates somewhat of a dilemna for carlos, who desires more snaps than he gets. he's stated as much on more than one occasion.

[texbengal]

robert geathers influences this whole discussion, yet i've not heard his name mentioned once throughout it. if robert wasn't so well respected by this coaching staff, you'd see carlos playing a lot more than he does. robert plays so well against the run, while remaining such a big influence in the locker room, that it creates a place for him in our DL rotation. that's not a knock on carlos, more so a testament to robert, who despite his age, continues to be among the top rated DL against the rush. it also creates somewhat of a dilemna for carlos, who desires more snaps than he gets. he's stated as much on more than one occasion.

Good point - for the last several years, folks have been saying he's done here, and all he's done is continue to put his head down and keep his starting spot. While he's always been a stout run defender, his pass rush isn't what it was... But he can still make the occasional play there.

There's a reason that he's still starting on this D - and I can't imagine a much better role model for the young guys to emulate as far as being a professional - being a team guy, preparing each week, staying in top shape, playing through injuries, etc.

[Oldcat]

Good point - for the last several years, folks have been saying he's done here, and all he's done is continue to put his head down and keep his starting spot. While he's always been a stout run defender, his pass rush isn't what it was... But he can still make the occasional play there.

There's a reason that he's still starting on this D - and I can't imagine a much better role model for the young guys to emulate as far as being a professional - being a team guy, preparing each week, staying in top shape, playing through injuries, etc.

 

I remember a game this year or last when Dunlap was out and Geathers was pretty hot at getting pressure, picking up the slack.  Maybe he couldn't keep it up forever but it was nice to see the 'reserve' making up for the injured 'starter'.

 

On the board it just seems that his contract way back when stuck in people's craw when he didn't get 20 sacks a year, even after the numbers turned out to be pretty reasonable as it got to the end.  And you always seem to hear money reasons rather than reflexive 'he sucks' reasons for the annual 'Cut Geathers' cries.

[alleycat]

^ Right, and unless/until Dunlap takes over as a full-time starter there shouldn't be too much difficulty in signing both.

 

Which is exactly why the time is now to extend him.

[texbengal]

I remember a game this year or last when Dunlap was out and Geathers was pretty hot at getting pressure, picking up the slack.  Maybe he couldn't keep it up forever but it was nice to see the 'reserve' making up for the injured 'starter'.
 
On the board it just seems that his contract way back when stuck in people's craw when he didn't get 20 sacks a year, even after the numbers turned out to be pretty reasonable as it got to the end.  And you always seem to hear money reasons rather than reflexive 'he sucks' reasons for the annual 'Cut Geathers' cries.

I think that's 100% right re the mega contract he got.

Unfortunately, he jumped around a lot re position changes due to some injuries, and then he had the microfracture surgery on his knee that limited him some. I just think back to that Baltimore Monday night game - he was really dominant, but that's probably the high point as far as what he could have been.

[JC]

 

Which is exactly why the time is now to extend him.

If you are Carlos Dunlap, would you sign now?  I mean, he could leave this off-season and find a place where he gets 75-80% of the snaps and if he has a big year, a lot of money.  

[alleycat]

If you are Carlos Dunlap, would you sign now?  I mean, he could leave this off-season and find a place where he gets 75-80% of the snaps and if he has a big year, a lot of money.  

 

Personally, I would, but I'd go into making sure they knew that if I blew the ceiling off I'd expect a renegotiation in a couple of years.

 

First off, he'll be making peanuts this year, versus a lot more money for a new deal if he signs.  That's opportunity cost that you have to factor in.  

 

If he's being a realist, he also has to recognize that he's gotten hurt a lot in the past, so it's possible that happens in a contract year and hurts his prospects.

 

Next, he had high expectations for himself last year and actually didn't get the splash statistics (sacks) that he expected.  He'll also know that the team will continue to use a 7-9 man rotation and so his opportunities will be a bit limited.  Furthermore, he's never been very far from the coaches doghouse, and if he chooses to abandon team strategy to increase his sack numbers, for instance, these coaches have proven more than willing to bench him to prove a point (which will again hurt his upcoming value).

 

IMO, this is a situation where both the player and the team should recognize the mutual benefit of coming to an agreement early rather than taking the risk of what may come later on. 

 

I'd also think if Dunlap breaks out in a huge way that the FO would be willing to talk about renegotiating, especially if such a thing is conveyed now when cutting the somewhat less spectacular deal.

 

It's also probable that my heart is clouding my judgement, as I think Carlos is easily one of the top 5 most important guys on the team.

[NASTYNATI]

Johnson hands down. I completely agree with those that have mentioned the production vs potential debate. I like Carlos but question his maturity and commitment at times. His durability has also been a concern.