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Marvin Lewis gets a job

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2 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

That is a lot of supposition, for a confirmed statement that he is/was a douche bag for not planning to watch NFL games going forward.

 

And what "fact" do you base another supposition that he wasn't giving 100% the last few years?   

Dude, Marvin sucked.  Get over it.  Wanted him gone after the TO-Ocho show in 2010.  Wanted him gone after the Chargers travesty in 2013.  Wanted him gone after the 2015 Pittspuke choke job.  Saying you won't be watching NFL football is simply an FU to his former players.  If he was actually giving 100% the last few years that he sucked more than I thought because those teams were undisciplined and simplistic.     How long can you ride the, "But before Marvin arrived here..." train?  He is no longer the coach and brought me very little joy has a fan.  Fuck him. 

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4 hours ago, SF2 said:

Dude, Marvin sucked.  Get over it.  Wanted him gone after the TO-Ocho show in 2010.  Wanted him gone after the Chargers travesty in 2013.  Wanted him gone after the 2015 Pittspuke choke job.  Saying you won't be watching NFL football is simply an FU to his former players.  If he was actually giving 100% the last few years that he sucked more than I thought because those teams were undisciplined and simplistic.     How long can you ride the, "But before Marvin arrived here..." train?  He is no longer the coach and brought me very little joy has a fan.  Fuck him. 

He's the winningest coach in franchise history, it must have been a rough 16 years for you if Marvin brought you very little joy.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

He's the winningest coach in franchise history, it must have been a rough 16 years for you if Marvin brought you very little joy.

 

 

 

He's only the "Winningest Coach" by virtue of coaching twice as long as anyone else on the list.  He was 6 games over .500 which is good enough for 3rd in win percentage.

 

Statistics are fun & all but you can't spin 0-7 in the postseason.

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9 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

He's only the "Winningest Coach" by virtue of coaching twice as long as anyone else on the list.  He was 6 games over .500 which is good enough for 3rd in win percentage.

 

Statistics are fun & all but you can't spin 0-7 in the postseason.

I'm not trying to spin anything, I just don't understand the hate towards Marvin. Some people are acting like he got their teenage daughter pregnant or spit in their face when all he did was try his best to win football games. 

 

Considering the franchise was abysmal before he arrived and he had to put up with the collective genius of Mike Brown and Troy Blackburn, I would say he did a good job. He absolutely could have been better but I don't flat out hate him for his failures. 

 

Before we go throwing trash on his lawn and cursing his name let's see what the new staff can do, winning games in the NFL is not easy and Marvin was good when his team was healthy. 

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8 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

Some people are acting like he got their teenage daughter pregnant or spit in their face when all he did was try his best to win football games. 

 

 

What "some people" say or do is not the topic.  You said he was the "winningest coach".  I pointed out this is based on number of games & that he coached twice as many Bengals games as anyone else, and really was close to .500.  Again, a solid 3rd in win percentage.

 

Then you changed the subject to this melodramatic stuff.  I'll give you and your strawman some privacy.  :D

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He was also the losingest coach with more losses than any other.

If someone is going to calling him "the winningest coach" by virtue of

being here 16 years, he is also the losingest using the same guidelines.

 

I am also in the Marvin Sucked side and the kindest thing I can say is that

he overstayed his usefulness to the franchise and was here too long.

Losing playoff games, sure.   But the totally inept and humiliating way he did it.

He looked like he did not have a clue what he was doing.

 

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18 hours ago, PatternMaster said:

He's the winningest coach in franchise history, it must have been a rough 16 years for you if Marvin brought you very little joy.

 

 

Doc Rivers is the winningest coach of the LA Clippers.   So what.   We managed to get a wild card bid  7 times in 16 years.  Not 1 bye in 16 years.  In 5 of those games, the game was already over when the 4th quarter began.  2 losses to a shitty Texans team.  I would even say the Jets playoff game was over since their defense literally shut the offense down to the tune of 110 passing yards.  The other game was the Marvin Misfits game that was won until it wasn't.   The reality is  6 of those playoff teams were marginal wild card teams at best to include the mythical 2005 team that had the 28th ranked defense in the league.  There was never a point in any January that any knowledgeable football mind gave the Bengals a chance to do much.  Lewis' best team was  2015.  Denver's defense would have simply eaten our lunch like all good defensive teams did to Marvin led teams in the playoffs. 

 

Sure, there were some good times during the regular season but at the end, I simply knew Marvin would find a way to lose in the post season if the team made it.  I think one of the most overlooked things about the Lewis era was that his defenses were terrible for years.  It wasn't until Mike Zimmer arrived that the defense finally broke into the top half of the league.  After Zimmer left, the defense went right back to being terrible in short order.  I was told Lewis was a defensive mastermind. 

 

Lewis won the most games for an organization with 5 playoff wins in 51 years.  That is less than 1 playoff win per decade. He owns none of those wins.  The playoffs matter to everyone other than some Bengals fans it seems.  I am so glad Lewis is gone.  I don't even care if Taylor does well, just glad the rest of the NFL world can't make fun of a franchise that gave a perennial choker yet another chance. 

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Has any team anywhere looked less motivated in the postseason?   I'd call at least 5/7 of those losses no-shows.  

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10 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Has any team anywhere looked less motivated in the postseason?   I'd call at least 5/7 of those losses no-shows.  

The San Diego game was perhaps the best example of a team totally melting down while the head coach stood on the sidelines with a bewildered look on his face.  The next morning Marvin should have been let go and the search for a replacement for Dalton should have begun in earnest.   It is very rare that a player ever mentally recover from a 3rd quarter as bad as Dalton had on such a big stage.  I still remember scoring a basket for the other team in Y basketball when I was in High School, I can't imagine what thoughts go thru Dalton's mind when every third quarter begins.  

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Doc Rivers is the winningest coach of the LA Clippers.   So what.   We managed to get a wild card bid  7 times in 16 years.  Not 1 bye in 16 years.  In 5 of those games, the game was already over when the 4th quarter began.  2 losses to a shitty Texans team.  I would even say the Jets playoff game was over since their defense literally shut the offense down to the tune of 110 passing yards.  The other game was the Marvin Misfits game that was won until it wasn't.   The reality is  6 of those playoff teams were marginal wild card teams at best to include the mythical 2005 team that had the 28th ranked defense in the league.  There was never a point in any January that any knowledgeable football mind gave the Bengals a chance to do much.  Lewis' best team was  2015.  Denver's defense would have simply eaten our lunch like all good defensive teams did to Marvin led teams in the playoffs. 

 

Sure, there were some good times during the regular season but at the end, I simply knew Marvin would find a way to lose in the post season if the team made it.  I think one of the most overlooked thing about the Lewis era was that his defenses were terrible for years.  It wasn't until Mike Zimmer arrived that the defense finally broke into the top half of the league.  After Zimmer left, the defense went right back to being terrible in short order.  I was told Lewis was a defensive mastermind. 

 

Lewis won the most games for an organization with 5 playoff wins in 51 years.  That is less than 1 playoff win per decade. He owns none of those wins.  The playoffs matter to everyone other than some Bengals fans it seems.  I am so glad Lewis is gone.  I don't even care if Taylor does well, just glad the rest of the NFL world can't make fun of a franchise that gave a perennial choker yet another chance. 

all true...

 

and couldn't agree more with all of it.

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7 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

Ok, I listened to this - and he really comes off as a prick. 

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5 hours ago, Cat said:

Ok, I listened to this - and he really comes off as a prick. 

 

"The Stealers are always going to have a great football team"

 

🚽

 

At least that explains his record against them.  Good to know we kept a coach around for almost 20 years that thought our main division rival had pulled a sword from a stone.  WTF? They're not fuckin' magic, dude.   This guy could get attacked by rabid shitweasels and he'd be all "well that's just what weasels do" while getting his face eaten.  And clap, of course.

 

If for some strange reason you have 2nd thoughts about him being fired, go listen to this and be glad.

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Long before Internet forums, there was the year 1987. There was a coach named Sam Wyche, who because he had the supposed shit for brains to call a sweep on 4th down, was first dubbed "stupid" by all of the then "experts without keyboards". A week later, he incurred the ire of real writing scribes--gulped down by the populace--when he wouldn't crap all over striking players. He muddled around after that, pieced together what remained of the season, and then awaited the final game. There, amid the panorama of hate-filled banners (which for some reason we're allowed to remain up), he took the full brunt of the wrath of the alleged fans. It was both eerie and disgusting at the same time. I had briefly spoken to Sam several years earlier when he was coach at IU. Found him to be a very nice person. That day in the stadium, I remember thinking: all of this bullshit to a nice human being over a game. 

 

A year later, he was the GOAT to the same people who were shitting on him 12 months earler. Three years later, he was back to being a know-nothing prick, who wouldn't answer questions the way he was supposed to, or grovel at the media's feet. But the experts always get the last word. 

 

Maybe in 10 years or so...after the franchise has gone through 2 or 3 more HC's...the new internet experts will look back and think that old Marvin Lewis fellow wasn't half bad after all...just maybe. Even that shit for brains know-nothing prick Sam Wyche is looked on more positively now. Well, other than by Paul Daugherty. 

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32 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

Long before Internet forums, there was the year 1987. There was a coach named Sam Wyche, who because he had the supposed shit for brains to call a sweep on 4th down, was first dubbed "stupid" by all of the then "experts without keyboards"...

 

I was at that game (seat on the 50-yard line).  When Boomer took a knee on first down, I exclaimed to the guy I was there with, “No! They have to burn some time off the clock, or the 49ers will get the ball back.”  On second down, Boomer stood there for a couple of seconds before taking a knee.  I can’t recall what happened on third down.  The fourth-down sweep was stupid, but “stupid” started on the first down of that series of plays.  Awful clock management (Where have I heard that before?).

 

The thing I remember most about that game was the stunned silence with which the fans exited the stadium.  It was so quiet.  I think everyone was in shock.

 

Definitely a case of defeat snapped from the jaws of victory.  

 

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9 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Long before Internet forums, there was the year 1987. There was a coach named Sam Wyche, who because he had the supposed shit for brains to call a sweep on 4th down, was first dubbed "stupid" by all of the then "experts without keyboards". A week later, he incurred the ire of real writing scribes--gulped down by the populace--when he wouldn't crap all over striking players. He muddled around after that, pieced together what remained of the season, and then awaited the final game. There, amid the panorama of hate-filled banners (which for some reason we're allowed to remain up), he took the full brunt of the wrath of the alleged fans. It was both eerie and disgusting at the same time. I had briefly spoken to Sam several years earlier when he was coach at IU. Found him to be a very nice person. That day in the stadium, I remember thinking: all of this bullshit to a nice human being over a game. 

 

A year later, he was the GOAT to the same people who were shitting on him 12 months earler. Three years later, he was back to being a know-nothing prick, who wouldn't answer questions the way he was supposed to, or grovel at the media's feet. But the experts always get the last word. 

 

Maybe in 10 years or so...after the franchise has gone through 2 or 3 more HC's...the new internet experts will look back and think that old Marvin Lewis fellow wasn't half bad after all...just maybe. Even that shit for brains know-nothing prick Sam Wyche is looked on more positively now. Well, other than by Paul Daugherty. 

Good post, most fans would consider Wyche one of if not the best coaches in franchise history despite his failures and mistakes. 

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9 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Long before Internet forums, there was the year 1987. There was a coach named Sam Wyche, who because he had the supposed shit for brains to call a sweep on 4th down, was first dubbed "stupid" by all of the then "experts without keyboards". A week later, he incurred the ire of real writing scribes--gulped down by the populace--when he wouldn't crap all over striking players. He muddled around after that, pieced together what remained of the season, and then awaited the final game. There, amid the panorama of hate-filled banners (which for some reason we're allowed to remain up), he took the full brunt of the wrath of the alleged fans. It was both eerie and disgusting at the same time. I had briefly spoken to Sam several years earlier when he was coach at IU. Found him to be a very nice person. That day in the stadium, I remember thinking: all of this bullshit to a nice human being over a game. 

 

A year later, he was the GOAT to the same people who were shitting on him 12 months earler. Three years later, he was back to being a know-nothing prick, who wouldn't answer questions the way he was supposed to, or grovel at the media's feet. But the experts always get the last word. 

 

Maybe in 10 years or so...after the franchise has gone through 2 or 3 more HC's...the new internet experts will look back and think that old Marvin Lewis fellow wasn't half bad after all...just maybe. Even that shit for brains know-nothing prick Sam Wyche is looked on more positively now. Well, other than by Paul Daugherty. 

maybe.. or more likely we will look back and say look at all of those really talented teams that were wasted under Marvin, we may never have teams that talented again. Damn, how did he lose some of those playoff games?

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10 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Long before Internet forums, there was the year 1987. There was a coach named Sam Wyche, who because he had the supposed shit for brains to call a sweep on 4th down, was first dubbed "stupid" by all of the then "experts without keyboards". A week later, he incurred the ire of real writing scribes--gulped down by the populace--when he wouldn't crap all over striking players. He muddled around after that, pieced together what remained of the season, and then awaited the final game. There, amid the panorama of hate-filled banners (which for some reason we're allowed to remain up), he took the full brunt of the wrath of the alleged fans. It was both eerie and disgusting at the same time. I had briefly spoken to Sam several years earlier when he was coach at IU. Found him to be a very nice person. That day in the stadium, I remember thinking: all of this bullshit to a nice human being over a game. 

 

A year later, he was the GOAT to the same people who were shitting on him 12 months earler. Three years later, he was back to being a know-nothing prick, who wouldn't answer questions the way he was supposed to, or grovel at the media's feet. But the experts always get the last word. 

 

Maybe in 10 years or so...after the franchise has gone through 2 or 3 more HC's...the new internet experts will look back and think that old Marvin Lewis fellow wasn't half bad after all...just maybe. Even that shit for brains know-nothing prick Sam Wyche is looked on more positively now. Well, other than by Paul Daugherty. 

Maybe my memory is a little cloudy but didn't this same coach win an AFC championship in his 5th year and own 3 of the Bengals 5 total playoff victories in only 8 years as coach? Marvin was given 16 years and accomplished almost nothing.  If Wyche would have followed up 1987 with another 4 win non playoff season in 1988 (that would have made 5 years no playoffs), nobody would give 2 shits about him and he would have been let go by Paul Brown.  

 

BTW, Sam Wyche was an average coach at best, nothing more.   He just happens to have actually won some post season games here so he is considered a God.  12 seasons as an NFL coach yet he only made the playoffs 2 times is not the resume of a Great Coach. Lifetime record of 84-107 is not great by any stretch. 3 winning seasons out of 12 actually sucks.  Good offensive mind who didn't pay much attention to his defense but had an outspoken personality.   Shottenheimer was a far better overall coach but had his playoff issues. 

 

If we go thru 2 or 3 more HCs, so be it.  Rather swing for the fences that lay down a bunt every at bat. 

 

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28 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

Good post, most fans would consider Wyche one of if not the best coaches in franchise history despite his failures and mistakes. 

Considering he is one of only two coaches in 51 years that actually had some post season success, yeah he may be the best.  Good offensive mind but other teams and the league figured out how to stop his hurry up offense.  Pretty low bar here in Cincy. 

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1 hour ago, SF2 said:

Maybe my memory is a little cloudy but didn't this same coach win an AFC championship in his 5th year and own 3 of the Bengals 5 total playoff victories in only 8 years as coach? Marvin was given 16 years and accomplished almost nothing.  If Wyche would have followed up 1987 with another 4 win non playoff season in 1988 (that would have made 5 years no playoffs), nobody would give 2 shits about him and he would have been let go by Paul Brown.  

 

BTW, Sam Wyche was an average coach at best, nothing more.   He just happens to have actually won some post season games here so he is considered a God.  12 seasons as an NFL coach yet he only made the playoffs 2 times is not the resume of a Great Coach. Lifetime record of 84-107 is not great by any stretch. 3 winning seasons out of 12 actually sucks.  Good offensive mind who didn't pay much attention to his defense but had an outspoken personality.   Shottenheimer was a far better overall coach but had his playoff issues. 

 

If we go thru 2 or 3 more HCs, so be it.  Rather swing for the fences that lay down a bunt every at bat. 

 

You lose something in nuance, when that is exactly how it is laid out. The post was to illustrate how media and fan-level accolades/condemnations change on the head of a pin. But you already know this, as you always do. 

 

But anyway, and having been there, there were absolutely no indications PB would have made any more movement in '89 regardless of how '88 turned out. He emphatically called '87 "an aberration"--which it was--and for the prior two seasons before, the franchise was tracking positive record wise. Any improvement in '88 would have been a trend up and PB would have ignored again the media/fan catcalls. That the season turned out incredibly better than anyone could have hoped, was just added bonus. 

 

And, I didn't mention the siren screams of despair in 1989--a season after the GOAT season of '88. The world was ending then too, but the bellyachers forgot again in 1990.         

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48 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

You lose something in nuance, when that is exactly how it is laid out. The post was to illustrate how media and fan-level accolades/condemnations change on the head of a pin. But you already know this, as you always do. 

 

But anyway, and having been there, there were absolutely no indications PB would have made any more movement in '89 regardless of how '88 turned out. He emphatically called '87 "an aberration"--which it was--and for the prior two seasons before, the franchise was tracking positive record wise. Any improvement in '88 would have been a trend up and PB would have ignored again the media/fan catcalls. That the season turned out incredibly better than anyone could have hoped, was just added bonus. 

 

And, I didn't mention the siren screams of despair in 1989--a season after the GOAT season of '88. The world was ending then too, but the bellyachers forgot again in 1990.         

I don’t disagree, NFL fans perceptions can change overnight.  Wyche caught lightening in a bottle one season with a loaded roster and fans loved him for it.  Made the playoffs one more time. 

 

Fans loved Marvin in 2005. 13 years later he was finally let go unable to win a playoff game.  Now most fans don’t even care anymore. You honestly have problem with fans who wanted 0 for 16 Marvin gone?  Somehow the fans are bad people for not celebrating 16 years of playoff failure because Marvin is a good guy?  

 

It’s the NFL, if you don’t succeed quickly the fans will turn on you. If you have a problem with that, don’t coach.  Marvin wouldn’t have lasted 5 years anywhere else. 

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Wishing a HC fired is one thing...labeling him a douche bag/prick because he has another job, and stating he doesn't plan on watching any NFL games this season, is completely another.  

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1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Wishing a HC fired is one thing...labeling him a douche bag/prick because he has another job, and stating he doesn't plan on watching any NFL games this season, is completely another.  

Nobody said he was a douche or prick for landing a new job, it was said because he proclaimed he wasn't going to watch NFL football.  There was no reason to make the comment and it comes off as someone who doesn't really care what happens to the Bengals going forward.  It may be untrue and he may have just misspoken at the moment but it still sounded like he was turning his back on his players and doesn't really care what happens to them.  Sour grapes maybe but he was given WAY WAY more chances than any other franchise would have ever given him and keep in mind, his hiring at the time addressed many issues the league had with the absence of black coaches.   

 

The Brown family gave him a chance many other organizations would not have given him and kept him around way longer than any other franchise would have.  

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56 minutes ago, SF2 said:

 it comes off as someone who doesn't really care what happens to the Bengals going forward. 

 

 

That seemed obvious at least 3 seasons ago.

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