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29 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Jags only trade down if they like at least 2 of the non-Lawrence QBs equally. That's unlikely. If they trade below us so someone else can take Sewell, then we have no incentive to not trade out ourselves for a team that wants a QB. It could easily be the same guy the Jags hope to get at 4. So not worth it for them. 

I looked up the draft chart points for a trade..

Jax at 2nd pick..2600pts

The Chargers at 6 have 1600pts..

For trade to be equal value the Chargers would have to give up their

First pick for 5 rounds..

Theyre not doing that..

 

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If we don’t replace the OL coach, it won’t matter who we pick for the O-line.  

It's not their pick anyway, it's the Dolphins'

Aren't the Bengals that team?

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3 hours ago, SF2 said:

There are a lot of teams that want him.  Described as a generational talent the Chargers and Cowboys could swing a deal for him.  If Jacksonville did that we should then pick Fields and tell them it’s your 1 and 2 now bitches.  

Pick Fields? are you serious? And I'm an OSU Homer 😮

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13 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

I looked up the draft chart points for a trade..

Jax at 2nd pick..2600pts

The Chargers at 6 have 1600pts..

For trade to be equal value the Chargers would have to give up their

First pick for 5 rounds..

Theyre not doing that..

Just updated this..

Chargers pick 4th..

So it would be their first 3 round 

Picks..

For a team in need I dont see then pullin the trigger on it..

 

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2 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

I think they go after Surtain with that pick..

Secondary is weak but with Surtain and James ciming back they would solidify their back coverage

Also why wouldn't LA just offer the Bengals that deal?

Because the Bengals wouldn’t take it

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1 hour ago, claptonrocks said:

 

 

2 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

I looked up the draft chart points for a trade..

Jax at 2nd pick..2600pts

The Chargers at 6 have 1600pts..

For trade to be equal value the Chargers would have to give up their

First pick for 5 rounds..

Theyre not doing that..

 

The Chargers have a way better team than their record indicates.   8th ranked offense and 9th ranked defense.  They just lose games in stupid ways. 
 

The Bengals are 29th offense 25th in defense.  

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Chargers will have a new coach next year, play in a big market, have their franchise QB, and talent all over their roster. They don't need to trade up for Sewell but also could afford to spare the picks to go get him. 

 

Those draft pick value charts don't mean much and there are at least 3 or 4 of them with different values. A draft pick is only worth the player it can get you and this year there is a big drop from pick #1 to pick #2. Some years a given pick is worth more than others. 

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Chargers will have a new coach next year, play in a big market, have their franchise QB, and talent all over their roster. They don't need to trade up for Sewell but also could afford to spare the picks to go get him. 

 

Those draft pick value charts don't mean much and there are at least 3 or 4 of them with different values. A draft pick is only worth the player it can get you and this year there is a big drop from pick #1 to pick #2. Some years a given pick is worth more than others. 

I dont know where you get the 3 or 4 

Draft value charts.

Theres only one the nfl uses..

And to say the Chargers can afford to 

spare picks..

Regardless of their defense or offense standing they need alot of help as well..

 

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19 hours ago, SF2 said:

Scenario is LA Chargers trade 4th and 36th with Jacksonville for the 2nd.   Chargers take Sewell.  We take BPA not a QB. Jags still get Herbert.  

 

Herbert's not leaving the Chargers. If they jump above us and take Sewell then I open a bidding war for a team that wants the #2 QB assuming TL is off the board. 

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35 minutes ago, Sea Ray said:

 

Herbert's not leaving the Chargers. If they jump above us and take Sewell then I open a bidding war for a team that wants the #2 QB assuming TL is off the board. 

I think he meant to type Jags still get Fields.

 

It is an interesting scenario, given the jags would know we do not need a QB and we are shit at making fast draft moves. The risk for the Jags would be if they made this move then someone else could offer up a good trade to the Bengals for pick #3 in order to get Fields. 

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2 minutes ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I think he meant to type Jags still get Fields.

 

It is an interesting scenario, given the jags would know we do not need a QB and we are shit at making fast draft moves. The risk for the Jags would be if they made this move then someone else could offer up a good trade to the Bengals for pick #3 in order to get Fields. 

Thats right..and that scenario would play out imo..

Jags will take their new franchise QB in Fields and rightfully so.

Jags also have about 80mil in cap space this offseason so they can sign a solid vet T if they want to.

Or anyone else for that matter..

 

 

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If the Jags made that first move, a team like the Panthers may then try and jump the Jags into slot 3. Or maybe the Jags are actually targeting a different QB than Fields. 

 

The draft is always more interesting when there are multiple high QB prospects in play. A lot of mocks now have mac Jones as a top 15 QB. That would put potentially 5 QB's in the top 15 (6 if you count Trask from Florida). A mart team with a high pick that does NOT need a QB could potentially trade down several times and backload a lot of picks. 

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3 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

If the Jags made that first move, a team like the Panthers may then try and jump the Jags into slot 3. Or maybe the Jags are actually targeting a different QB than Fields. 

 

The draft is always more interesting when there are multiple high QB prospects in play. A lot of mocks now have mac Jones as a top 15 QB. That would put potentially 5 QB's in the top 15 (6 if you count Trask from Florida). A mart team with a high pick that does NOT need a QB could potentially trade down several times and backload a lot of picks. 

Never draft an Alabama QB in the first round. I like Tua but his arm strength is garbage. 

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3 hours ago, I_C_Deadpeople said:

I think he meant to type Jags still get Fields.

 

It is an interesting scenario, given the jags would know we do not need a QB and we are shit at making fast draft moves. The risk for the Jags would be if they made this move then someone else could offer up a good trade to the Bengals for pick #3 in order to get Fields. 

Correct, Fields. Bengals would simply default to next best non QB player.  Probably the wideout from Bama. 
 

The front office is about as nimble as a tree sloth. 

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4 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

I dont know where you get the 3 or 4 

Draft value charts.

Theres only one the nfl uses..

And to say the Chargers can afford to 

spare picks..

Regardless of their defense or offense standing they need alot of help as well..

 

 

You're probably thinking of the chart Jimmy Johnson came up with 30 years ago. But a lot of research has been done over the years into the value of various draft slots in terms of career productivity. But even then it depends on how the GM (or whomever is making the call) feels about the guy they would take at a given spot. Most deals are done when a team is on the clock so they know who they are giving up and the trade partner knows for sure who they will get. A team will always be willing to trade down, even for less value than the charts show, if they are confident of getting their player at a lower spot. 

 

Anyway, there are likely some non-public proprietary pick value charts in use but here are a few that teams are known to have used:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/draft_trade_value.htm

 

https://overthecap.com/draft-trade-value-chart/

 

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/pages/the-harvard-trade-value-chart

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/153769-updating-the-nfl-draft-trade-value-chart

 

http://www.footballperspective.com/draft-value-chart/

 

 

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11 hours ago, SF2 said:

Correct, Fields. Bengals would simply default to next best non QB player.  Probably the wideout from Bama. 
 

The front office is about as nimble as a tree sloth. 

The wide out from LSU.

 

I would trade down for someone really wanting the quarterback from LSU

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Per most 2021 draft prospect lists there are between 9-11 OL. If we stay at #3 we will either control where Fields goes or get Sewell. I would likely take Sewell as how often does the BPA available align with the most needed position on the team. If we control Fields and he performs well QB needy teams will sell the house to get him. If the team we deal with is in the top 10 we should get at least a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd pick.

 

Lets sat we pick 8th in the 1st after the Fields trade. There are a bunch of OL we could get but they rank pretty low.  One of them like Skater, Davis and Vera-Tucker will likely go in the late teens. We can then trade back 8-9 slots and get one of them as well as a late 2nd and possibly a late 3rd or 4th. That would give us 7 picks in the first 4 rounds with 4 of them high in each round. There are some very good players thru round 4.  Add a solid experienced 2nd contract FA for the OL and DL and we should be able to fix the OL, help the DL, get as good WR and LB as well as maybe a CB or S with those 7 picks and still have the rest of the draft to maybe find a diamond in the rough. So the question is, is Sewell worth more than 3-4 additional picks in the top 4 rounds? I would say it is close. So we can make hay no matter what the Jags or Jets do.        

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9 minutes ago, JungleJohn said:

Per most 2021 draft prospect lists there are between 9-11 OL. If we stay at #3 we will either control where Fields goes or get Sewell. I would likely take Sewell as how often does the BPA available align with the most needed position on the team. If we control Fields and he performs well QB needy teams will sell the house to get him. If the team we deal with is in the top 10 we should get at least a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd pick.

 

Lets sat we pick 8th in the 1st after the Fields trade. There are a bunch of OL we could get but they rank pretty low.  One of them like Skater, Davis and Vera-Tucker will likely go in the late teens. We can then trade back 8-9 slots and get one of them as well as a late 2nd and possibly a late 3rd or 4th. That would give us 7 picks in the first 4 rounds with 4 of them high in each round. There are some very good players thru round 4.  Add a solid experienced 2nd contract FA for the OL and DL and we should be able to fix the OL, help the DL, get as good WR and LB as well as maybe a CB or S with those 7 picks and still have the rest of the draft to maybe find a diamond in the rough. So the question is, is Sewell worth more than 3-4 additional picks in the top 4 rounds? I would say it is close. So we can make hay no matter what the Jags or Jets do.        

You do understand that if you told Mike Brown all that he would be dumbfounded..

Hes picking Sewell ..

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

You do understand that if you told Mike Brown all that he would be dumbfounded..

Hes picking Sewell ..

 

 

Barring any change in draft order, sure, that would be the path of least resistance.

 

They will then consider the OL "fixed", do nothing to provide any depth at the position, and proceed to act like it's just bad luck when a rookie OT or a guy who has been hurt 2 years in a row go down due to injury.

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6 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

Barring any change in draft order, sure, that would be the path of least resistance.

 

They will then consider the OL "fixed", do nothing to provide any depth at the position, and proceed to act like it's just bad luck when a rookie OT or a guy who has been hurt 2 years in a row go down due to injury.

I see it as ...

Draft Sewell and you have your bookends along wth Jonah for JB for years..

Keep playing Adenijji at LT this year for valuable experience and hes your backup LT next season.

With Any proper technique traning Fred Johnson could be a quality RT backup..

.Hopkins at center..maybe Feeney as backuo..

Upgrading guard position a must do!

Spain at RG on a 2yr 8mil deal.

Redmond as his backup..XSF as LG .

Hes proven as a pass blocker much more than running..Hes suited for blindside pass blocking..

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

I see it as ...

Draft Sewell and you have your bookends along wth Jonah for JB for years..

 

 

 

That's.. optimistic.   Draft Sewell and you have another rookie draft pick who will be adjusting to the NFL & undersized like every other rookie draft pick.  Jonah has played in 10 of a possible 32 games since entering the NFL.

 

IDK.. all of the other people you mention have played this year and either been hurt or looked like they had no business on an NFL field (or both).  

 

No idea why you'd expect them to make great leaps at this point under the careful tutelage of Jim Turner but..  ok?

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20 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

 

That's.. optimistic.   Draft Sewell and you have another rookie draft pick who will be adjusting to the NFL & undersized like every other rookie draft pick.  Jonah has played in 10 of a possible 32 games since entering the NFL.

 

IDK.. all of the other people you mention have played this year and either been hurt or looked like they had no business on an NFL field (or both).  

 

No idea why you'd expect them to make great leaps at this point under the careful tutelage of Jim Turner but..  ok?

This is on the basis of a new oline coach..

Turner will Not be back..

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While the worst case scenario can never be ruled out for the Bengals, I don't see Turner returning. Even Mike Brown can connect the injury to his precious with the sustained poor O-line play and realize he not only needs better players, he needs better coaching. Since there will be better options than Turner no matter which coaches get fired this season, there's really no case for bringing him back. The ideal replacement would be Mike Munchak but that's probably a pipe dream. 

 

Regarding trading down, it's unlikely unless they don't rate Sewell for some reason. A move like that would have to be done on the clock (though usually there are discussions in advance) and MB isn't the sort of guy who can pull the trigger quickly. I think they leave trading on day 3 to Tobin as long as it doesn't cost them picks. 

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