It's Official, Ed Hartwell is a Bengal.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='479656' date='Apr 29 2007, 08:19 PM']Our passing D WILL be better for 1 reason.

No more Tory James.[/quote]


we're automatically improved.

[Storm]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='479656' date='Apr 30 2007, 12:19 AM']Our passing D WILL be better for 1 reason.

No more Tory James.[/quote]


Addition by subtraction

[DanvilleBengal]

Going off-topic.


Let's say that Mike decided to retire. GAve the keys of the franchise to Katie and Troy. Or to even spice things up, sold it to someguy and just decide to be a old man that is rich and sitting pretty.

What makes you think that new front office personnnel, hell even new ownership, would change how the Bengals approach FA and the draft?

I don't forgive Mike and company for what happened between 1991-2003. Nobody worth their grain of salt should. But given the same front office, but a better coaching staff, we have done so much better. Should they be more willing to swing for the fences more often to get guys that they want, I do think so. But there are consequences to doing that, and the odds say that it doesn't really pay off. Sometimes staying pat is the best course of action. Just because someone decide to stay and let a draft board play out and then nab the best player, doesn't mean that they are just settling of rmediocre players. It just means that the board changes.

If you are going to fault Mike and family for shoving a crappy product down our throats for so long, you should be willing to give them some credit for trying to change with the times, even if it's a little credit.

Don't forget the past, because you will repeat it if forgotten. But at the same time, don't focus so much on the past.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='DanvilleBengal' post='479670' date='Apr 29 2007, 08:40 PM']Going off-topic.
Let's say that Mike decided to retire. GAve the keys of the franchise to Katie and Troy. Or to even spice things up, sold it to someguy and just decide to be a old man that is rich and sitting pretty.

What makes you think that new front office personnnel, hell even new ownership, would change how the Bengals approach FA and the draft?

I don't forgive Mike and company for what happened between 1991-2003. Nobody worth their grain of salt should. But given the same front office, but a better coaching staff, we have done so much better. Should they be more willing to swing for the fences more often to get guys that they want, I do think so. But there are consequences to doing that, and the odds say that it doesn't really pay off. Sometimes staying pat is the best course of action. Just because someone decide to stay and let a draft board play out and then nab the best player, doesn't mean that they are just settling of rmediocre players. It just means that the board changes.

If you are going to fault Mike and family for shoving a crappy product down our throats for so long, you should be willing to give them some credit for trying to change with the times, even if it's a little credit.

Don't forget the past, because you will repeat it if forgotten. But at the same time, don't focus so much on the past.[/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img]

[TheBZ]

The Bengals are one of 5 teams without a losing record since Marvin got here...And that's not going to change next year.

I certainly wouldn't trade for Baltimore, Denver or Dallas' staff or M.O., since we are going to be better than all three of those teams next year. Who will be the great beacon of 'doing it right' then?

The only teams I will defer to right now is NE or SD, which has made some VERY good moves over the past 5 years. So...We're supposed to feel bad about that?

I think that the current draft strategy has already been proven to work, and the evaluation process is still improving.

So...You're unhappy and I am happy...It all cancels out, and only one of us got to enjoy the draft.

Tough beans.

BZ

[Rick]

So, what about Hartwell? Is he still "almost" a Bengal?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Coy Bacon & Egg' post='479611' date='Apr 29 2007, 07:24 PM']Marvin's quote seems to validate the thinking that the Bengals just sit there in their spot and hope certain players come to them. It's always been this way. Year after year we see the better franchises (NE, Dal, SD, Phil, Balt, Den, etc.) work the draft, getting what they want instead of crossing their fingers, and of course relying on actual player personnel and scouting departments to get them the info and leverage they need. In the end, we get what we deserve.[/quote]


hall was the #1 guy on our draft board for DB's.

you have no bases for what your saying. you have zero proof and in no way can prove any points you make.

NE hit the fucking jackpot this draft with picks they compiled over the last 12 months or so, dallas was 9-7 in a super shitty division, and got nothing super great in the draft.SD got a decent WR and weddle, a hard worker but who knows...baltimore got nothing to write home about. their teams success like ours rides solely on their QB's back, and got nothing great in the draft. some linemen, denver didnt make the playoffs for the first time in forever and they only had 4 TOTAL picks, and drafted all linemen,

we picked players in all positions where we need more young talented depth... im not sure what there is to be disapointed over, and marvin certainly said nothing to hint that we sit and wait and cross our fingers.

[Jamie_B]

If we can get Hartwell in here and he can stay healthy and we bring Odell back, Ill feel much better about our LB situation. Right now Im only confident in Brooks.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='479721' date='Apr 29 2007, 09:58 PM']If we can get Hartwell in here and he can stay healthy and we bring Odell back, Ill feel much better about our LB situation. Right now Im only confident in Brooks.[/quote]

agreed, the main reason also is we're still not sure if odell is comming back. we think that he will but anything could happen.

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='Rumble in the Jungle' post='479728' date='Apr 29 2007, 09:02 PM']agreed, the main reason also is we're still not sure if odell is comming back. we think that he will but anything could happen.[/quote]

The fact that we didn't draft one leads me to believe he will be...

[dex]

[quote name='Elflocko' post='479740' date='Apr 29 2007, 09:11 PM']The fact that we didn't draft one leads me to believe he will be...[/quote]
Why? They were certainly ready to draft one in the second round. The Jets fucked those plans up. Unbelieveable that they were able to move up twice for players in the first 40 or so picks. I don't recall that ever happening before.

[cnbengal]

[quote name='sneaky' post='479638' date='Apr 29 2007, 08:00 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Giving away future picks just to trade up is super risky. The draft is a big roll of the dice as it is, but when you mortgage
future picks, and if the player you traded up for turns out to be a bust, you are double screwed.

The teams that do that seldom strike gold. [/b][/color][/quote]


excellent post.
last time we combined picks to trade up got us kijana carter........we saw how well that worked out
ask baltimore if trading up to get k boller was worth it

[Jungle1]

[quote name='cnbengal' post='479795' date='Apr 29 2007, 11:24 PM']excellent post.
last time we combined picks to trade up got us kijana carter........we saw how well that worked out
ask baltimore if trading up to get k boller was worth it [/quote]

More recently....look how much Eli Manning cost the Giants. San Diego ended up with Rivers, Merriman, and Kaeding.

The Browns look great now to the analysts because they got 2 first round picks. Wait a couple years then look and see how the trade worked for them.

[Guest BengalBacker]

[quote name='Jungle1' post='479799' date='Apr 29 2007, 11:30 PM']More recently....look how much Eli Manning cost the Giants. San Diego ended up with Rivers, Merriman, and Kaeding.

The Browns look great now to the analysts because they got 2 first round picks. Wait a couple years then look and see how the trade worked for them.[/quote]

Not to mention the Browns traded up to get Winslow. Eventually that might work out, but it hasn't to this point.

[EnglishBengal]

[quote name='OzBengal' post='479606' date='Apr 29 2007, 06:16 PM']Overall I like our draft but I sense that Marvin thinks the other AFC North teams got some pretty good players.[/quote]
Unfortunately the Bengals can't control what other teams do. They just have to out-coach the other teams and outplay them on game day. My prediction, the AFC North will be the toughest and most competitive division this year, but we will win it.

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='EnglishBengal' post='479886' date='Apr 30 2007, 04:06 AM']Unfortunately the Bengals can't control what other teams do. They just have to out-coach the other teams and outplay them on game day. My prediction, the AFC North will be the toughest and most competitive division this year, but we will win it.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]I dont know about the AFC North being the toughest and the most competitive, because I think that title still
belongs to the NFC East. It will be a 3 team race this year in the AFC North. Barring major injuries, if we can
compensate for the absense of Chris Henry on offense and if the defense shows some marginal improvement,
we can edge out Pissburgh and Baltimore for the division crown.

BTW, Hobson updated the article around 1:00am this morning, so it appears that a Hartwell signing is imminent.[/b][/color]

[atlbengalfan]

moving around the draft to get players by losing picks can be tricky. it works for some and not for others. as much as I hate the stealers, they are not known for moving around much and they were consistent winners for most of cowhers era. peoples beef may be with who we draft at spots not as much as where we are picking

[bengaled]

[quote name='sneaky' post='479620' date='Apr 29 2007, 07:35 PM'][color="#FF0000"]
[b]Nice positive post.[/b][/color] [/quote]

you know there are two sides to every fence. why does a thoughtful post get bashed just because it's strays outside the boundaries of "go-bengals.com- happy-happy-joy joy"? i just don't get that.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Coy Bacon & Egg' post='479626' date='Apr 29 2007, 07:43 PM']People can sarcastically rip my "postive post" or cite the need for extra picks for versatility, but the point is, the Bengals are about the most passive team in the league in general, and especially on draft day. It was shocking three years ago when they made the O'Neal pre-draft trade and then the Rd 1 deal with St Louis to pick up a 4th rounder (although they effectively traded Steven Jackson for Chris Perry to do that). I'm just saying I'm tired of seeing other teams be aggressors. And it's no coincidence that those teams always seem to have an upper hand, and know what to do with it. Of course, I think those other teams have actual front office infrastructure consistent with building and sustaining championship contenders year in and year out, while Cincinnati notoriously does not.[/quote]

i absolutely, 100%, couldn't agree with you more. the value we place on late round picks is unnerving. sure, some of them work out, but just as many don't.

everyone bitched about the jets and jags stealing our 2nd round LBs. of course they later jumped on the irons selection with full glee. those teams only stole those picks because we allowed them to do so. it only takes 10 points per slot to move up in the 2nd round...that's cheap.

lewis was disappointed in losing both harris and durant but he had options. sometimes you have to put aside value for the better good. sometimes a greater value truely lies in that same better good.

[Guest mongoloido]

Ah man. I never bothered to go read the article on bengals.com because I figured the whole thing was posted here....

From the slants and screens of that article:
[quote]Oregon defensive tackle Matt Toeina went to the same high school in America Samoa his freshman year with current Bengals defensive linemen Domata Peko and Jonathan Fanene.

“I think it will make me more comfortable in situations,” he said.

[b]Asked how he went from a 245-pound freshman fullback to a 300-pound tackle and end, he said, “I think the dollar menu across the street (at McDonald’s) from the dormitory didn’t help.”[/b][/quote]

That's just a classic.

[bengaled]

[quote name='OzBengal' post='479635' date='Apr 29 2007, 07:57 PM']What you don't point out is that the Browns probably traded away a top 10 pick in next years draft. I'm glad we don't do stupid things like that.[/quote]


you are surmising that and have little to no fact to base that judgement off of. that team is going to be immensely improved with both a great draft and the players they gained in free agency. i've seen many times in the past where a team has turned it around in one year after doing much less in the off-season.

[bengaled]

[quote name='sneaky' post='479638' date='Apr 29 2007, 08:00 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Giving away future picks just to trade up is super risky. The draft is a big roll of the dice as it is, but when you mortgage
future picks, and if the player you traded up for turns out to be a bust, you are double screwed.

The teams that do that seldom strike gold. [/b][/color][/quote]

if the player you move up for is a bust, you didn't do your required homework and changes in your personnel dept. should be made so that doesn't happen again...especially when you're talking about a 2nd rounder.

[bengaled]

[quote name='sneaky' post='479638' date='Apr 29 2007, 08:00 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Giving away future picks just to trade up is super risky. The draft is a big roll of the dice as it is, but when you mortgage
future picks, and if the player you traded up for turns out to be a bust, you are double screwed.

The teams that do that seldom strike gold. [/b][/color][/quote]


in past years new england has moved up to grab dan graham, eugene wilson, matt light, ty warren, chad jackson. these are just a few off the top of my head. i know for a fact there are more. your argument holds no water.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Rumble in the Jungle' post='479651' date='Apr 29 2007, 08:17 PM']that was the only good thing about drafting quinn that late, is you don't have to pay him top dollar.[/quote]

no, that was the BEST thing about drafting quinn that late. they stole that kid. in spite of what many here claim, he was under consideration for the top pick in the draft for a very long while....whether you agree with that assessment or not.

[bengaled]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='479721' date='Apr 29 2007, 09:58 PM']If we can get Hartwell in here and he can stay healthy and we bring Odell back, Ill feel much better about our LB situation. Right now Im only confident in Brooks.[/quote]

i agree, jamie. that would go a long way to improving the LB situation. then again, i'll need to see those guys in uniform before i give the front office a pass on missing out on the 3 stud 2nd round LBs. we were to close to them to have missed out on all 3 simply because we refused to sweeten the pot.