Marvin Lewis should be fired

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Actium' post='610685' date='Dec 17 2007, 11:35 AM']That line doesn't even make sense.


[b]Marvin is an underachiever. [/b]

Oh, I know, I have no clue and can't fathom the towering heights of his genius. I may not be a football lord, but I can see that neither is Marvin. Why are all of us so invested in him? He isn't anything special.[/quote]

Marvin is an underachiever ?
I know you a are brilliant person, so it astounds me that you would say
something so, well, dumb.

There is one person left on the Defense from 2002. Justin Smith.
There are 5 players left on Offense that were here in 2002,
and 3 of them have been injured this season.

The Bengals are without their 3 of their top draft picks in 2004.
(Yes I know one was a bust and was cut)
They are without two of their top draft picks from 2005.
And the 3rd top draft pick from 2005 was suspended half the season.
Their top pick from 2006 was injured and suspended this season.
They are without their 2nd round pick from 2007.

This is all after their top pick in 2003, the number one
overall pick, had the worst injury of his career, and
still seems to be effected at least mentally, by it.

Plus they have had a host of other injuries,
to LBs, RBs, WRs and the O-line.

Despite all that, they`re not the worst team in the NFL.
Hell, they're not even the worst team in their division.
And they still have a chance at finishing 1 game below .500.

Sure this season has been a disappointment.
But to bash on Marvin, while obviously looking
at nothing but this seasons record, isn`t going
to take away the fact that this team that has been
rebuilding since he got here, has had some bad luck
with draft picks (not bad drafts) and has been snake
bitten by the injury bug. None of that is Marvin`s fault.
Players make a coach look better, or worse than he
really is sometimes . . .

[jza10304]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='610678' date='Dec 17 2007, 12:26 PM']Im more oldschool, give me Goldie Hawn.[/quote]
Only if we could get Kurt Russel as Def. Coordinator

Snake is back!

[img]http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/popography/uploaded_images/c_snake_plissken-738606.jpg[/img]

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Actium' post='610697' date='Dec 17 2007, 12:49 PM']Sorry, Go, but Marvin's great accomplishment of taking us from 2-14 to 8-8 was about 5 years ago. It's a "what have you done for me lately" world.[/quote]

i disagree, because he still has us from the 2-14, world, the palyoffs within reach and soemthing to play for until the last whistle every year until this one. id say being in playoff contention in late dec/early january every year is still light years ahead of 2-14.

marvin needs to fail with all weapons at his disposal before i go cutting heads...

a new coach = rebuilding.

i would rather build from 8-8, or .500 then to start all over with nothing but question marks.

just my 2 cents.

[|ArmyBengal|]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='610720' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:13 PM']Marvin is an underachiever ?
I know you a are brilliant person, so it astounds me that you would say
something so, well, dumb.

There is one person left on the Defense from 2002. Justin Smith.
There are 5 players left on Offense that were here in 2002,
and 3 of them have been injured this season.

The Bengals are without their 3 of their top draft picks in 2004.
(Yes I know one was a bust and was cut)
They are without two of their top draft picks from 2005.
And the 3rd top draft pick from 2005 was suspended half the season.
Their top pick from 2006 was injured and suspended this season.
They are without their 2nd round pick from 2007.

This is all after their top pick in 2003, the number one
overall pick, had the worst injury of his career, and
still seems to be effected at least mentally, by it.

Plus they have had a host of other injuries,
to LBs, RBs, WRs and the O-line.

Despite all that, they`re not the worst team in the NFL.
Hell, they're not even the worst team in their division.
And they still have a chance at finishing 1 game below .500.

Sure this season has been a disappointment.
But to bash on Marvin, while obviously looking
at nothing but this seasons record, isn`t going
to take away the fact that this team that has been
rebuilding since he got here, has had some bad luck
with draft picks (not bad drafts) and has been snake
bitten by the injury bug. None of that is Marvin`s fault.
Players make a coach look better, or worse than he
really is sometimes . . .[/quote]

I don't disagree with any of this, and IMO the under achieving complaint is a reflection of the apparent poor coaching. How much of it is directly ML vs his assistants? They just don't seem to get the full potential out of these guys. To get beaten playing our best with what we have and it aint good enough is one thing but we're misfiring all over the place.

[dustmck]

I don't think Marvin will leave, but if he did it wouldn't break my heart.

Brainiac for Head Coach
[img]http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h37/Mystery815/brainiac-1.jpg[/img]

[Actium]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='610720' date='Dec 17 2007, 12:13 PM']Marvin is an underachiever ?
I know you a are brilliant person, so it astounds me that you would say
something so, well, dumb.

There is one person left on the Defense from 2002. Justin Smith.
There are 5 players left on Offense that were here in 2002,
and 3 of them have been injured this season.

The Bengals are without their 3 of their top draft picks in 2004.
(Yes I know one was a bust and was cut)
They are without two of their top draft picks from 2005.
And the 3rd top draft pick from 2005 was suspended half the season.
Their top pick from 2006 was injured and suspended this season.
They are without their 2nd round pick from 2007.

This is all after their top pick in 2003, the number one
overall pick, had the worst injury of his career, and
still seems to be effected at least mentally, by it.

Plus they have had a host of other injuries,
to LBs, RBs, WRs and the O-line.

Despite all that, they`re not the worst team in the NFL.
Hell, they're not even the worst team in their division.
And they still have a chance at finishing 1 game below .500.

Sure this season has been a disappointment.
But to bash on Marvin, while obviously looking
at nothing but this seasons record, isn`t going
to take away the fact that this team that has been
rebuilding since he got here, has had some bad luck
with draft picks (not bad drafts) and has been snake
bitten by the injury bug. None of that is Marvin`s fault.
Players make a coach look better, or worse than he
really is sometimes . . .[/quote]

old, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I think there is enough talent here to win. Last season we needed 1 of 3 at the end to get a playoff spot. We showed up flat. Now I will say this for marvin: he got us in that position. But he couldn't close the deal. He never could. That's why I say he's an underachiever.

I don't think I ever wrote this, but I will now. If the team could have won the Buffalo game in 2005, we would have gotten a first round bye in the playoffs. guess what--then Carson wouldn't have gotten his knee shredded in the first round game. Who knows what would have happened. it pains me to think what might have been.

The Bengals under Marvin can't finish. And that is a vital component of any championship team, or even contender.

[globetrotter]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='610723' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:16 PM']i disagree, because he still has us from the 2-14, world, the palyoffs within reach and soemthing to play for until the last whistle every year until this one. id say being in playoff contention in late dec/early january every year is still light years ahead of 2-14.

marvin needs to fail with all weapons at his disposal before i go cutting heads...

a new coach = rebuilding.

i would rather build from 8-8, or .500 then to start all over with nothing but question marks.

just my 2 cents.[/quote]

A new Coach equals rebuilding. Like Mike Tomlin, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner rebuilding? Or like your number one WR walks all over you rebuilding....

[NASTYNATI]

[quote name='globetrotter' post='610747' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:48 PM']A new Coach equals rebuilding. Like Mike Tomlin, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner rebuilding? Or like your number one WR walks all over you rebuilding....[/quote]


or like Cam Cameron, Norv Turner, or Ken Whisenhunt. A new headcoach isnt always the answer.

The dolphins up until week 15 everyone thought would go winless, Norv Turner has done nothing with a team that went 14-2 last season, and Ken Whisenhunt has basically kept the cards where they have been the last few seasons around average.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

yes there have been injuires on D but with this O we should still have a shot in every game. I saw no difference between the O in pre-season and the O now. They have been nothing short of embarassing and disgraceful this year.

[globetrotter]

[quote name='OneHeartBeat' post='610752' date='Dec 17 2007, 02:01 PM']yes there have been injuires on D but with this O we should still have a shot in every game. I saw no difference between the O in pre-season and the O now. They have been nothing short of embarassing and disgraceful this year.[/quote]

I have a question for all of you Marvin should stay people....What exactly does Marvin bring to the table that we could not look to improve by having somebody else here?

1) Potent offense? Everything we have on offense can stay and that has not even been that gret
2) Defensive Mastermind? The defense is atrocious
3) Great Game manger? Nope he is horrendous.
4) Great Personnel Manager? Nope the team is imploding from the outside in.
5) Great Public relations person for the team? nope the media hates him

What exactly could be worse? The offense and defense are horrible, the personnel decisions are bad, the fundamentals are terrible and the team chemistry is horrible? Anything could be an upgrade.

[Actium]

[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='610751' date='Dec 17 2007, 12:58 PM']or like Cam Cameron, Norv Turner, or Ken Whisenhunt. A new headcoach isnt always the answer.

The dolphins up until week 15 everyone thought would go winless, Norv Turner has done nothing with a team that went 14-2 last season, and Ken Whisenhunt has basically kept the cards where they have been the last few seasons around average.[/quote]

after struggling early, the chargers are now 9-5 and primed to take the AFC West. The Cardinals have many injuries as well and until dropping the ball the last couple games were primed for a playoff spot. the dolphins have team cancer and pervert Joey Porter dragging them down.

[|OneHeartBeat|]

Im one of those who does not believe that Marvin should be replaced, yet, but if this happens next year, then i think it's over for him. This is probably he most critical offseason since he's been here.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='globetrotter' post='610758' date='Dec 17 2007, 02:07 PM']I have a question for all of you Marvin should stay people....What exactly does Marvin bring to the table that we could not look to improve by having somebody else here?

1) Potent offense? Everything we have on offense can stay and that has not even been that gret
2) Defensive Mastermind? The defense is atrocious
3) Great Game manger? Nope he is horrendous.
4) Great Personnel Manager? Nope the team is imploding from the outside in.
5) Great Public relations person for the team? nope the media hates him

What exactly could be worse? The offense and defense are horrible, the personnel decisions are bad, the fundamentals are terrible and the team chemistry is horrible? Anything could be an upgrade.[/quote]

none of that makes sense really. we have a top 6 QB even tihs year, the running game is hurt from missing 3 of our 4 running backs. does that confuse you? that #1, 2 and 3 RB's were all injured this year? thats hard for you to understand? or that all but 5 players on both starting lineups missed time? that baffles you? thats something you cant comprehend? or do these other coahces have magical powers im unaware of?

no one says marv is perfect or even doing a great job, but the failures this season have little to nothing to do with him.

its common sense, even to a GURU like yourself.

PS: hows that coming?

[globetrotter]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='610775' date='Dec 17 2007, 02:43 PM']none of that makes sense really. we have a top 6 QB even tihs year, the running game is hurt from missing 3 of our 4 running backs. does that confuse you? that #1, 2 and 3 RB's were all injured this year? thats hard for you to understand? or that all but 5 players on both starting lineups missed time? that baffles you? thats something you cant comprehend? or do these other coahces have magical powers im unaware of?

no one says marv is perfect or even doing a great job, but the failures this season have little to nothing to do with him.

its common sense, even to a GURU like yourself.

PS: hows that coming?[/quote]

Ryan Grant.
Justin Fargas
Kolby Smith

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='globetrotter' post='610784' date='Dec 17 2007, 02:57 PM']Ryan Grant.
Justin Fargas
Kolby Smith[/quote]


thoams gesubell
eric dingerson
william p garvin.

[Patmo]

[quote name='globetrotter' post='610532' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:19 AM']I know that he wont be fired but he has lost the team and he and the team need a change of scenery. I could actually see him resign.

My list for who would be a good replacement is short.

Marty Schottenheimer
Bill Cowher.
We need a coach that has won and will demand respect and wont get walked over by chad and the others.

Any thoughts about who would be a good new OC or DC in the more likely scenario that Marvin replaces either.

DC
Ron Rivera
Emmitt Thomas



Mike Singletary would be my choice.He wouldn't put up with this shit.

OC?[/quote]

[DanvilleBengal]

I haven't it posted on here for a while, but I have to make a comment.

Marvin has done a descent job as coach. Howeva he has this year and this year alone to get this team turned around.

I hope that this season is the exception not tha rule.

Chucky needs to be fired!!!!! As well as Jay Hayes are DL coach.

I think we have tha talent on tha DL and need a couple of pieces, but coach Hayes has to go.

NONE OF HAYES STUNTS HAVE WORKED, OR PASS RUSH IS PATHETIC, AND THA TALENT OF GUYS LIKE PEKO AND GEATHERS IS BEING WASTED!!!!!!!!!!

We need to bring in someone to teach the line how to create pressure.

Hell bring in Jason Taylor if U have to, even if it means trading CHAD to do it.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='jza10304' post='610722' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:14 PM']Only if we could get Kurt Russel as Def. Coordinator

Snake is back!

[img]http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/popography/uploaded_images/c_snake_plissken-738606.jpg[/img][/quote]

[Bean Counter]

Marvin stays but I think one or both coordinators go. Brat cannot solve a cover two defense and Bres can't spell defense.

[cincity]

I think Marvin's main flaw as a coach is, he is too loyal to his commitments.. He has been to loyal to Chris Perry, to Rudi, to his assistant coaches... For the longest time he stood by the side of Frazier and didnt want to step on his toes. And now he is being too true to Bres... I believe he has the talent on the team developing this talent and getting the most talented people (CJ, TJ, Carson, Madieu, Rudi) to go into each game as a professional whether its good games or bad times keep your head and play football is another story.. He needs an experienced MLB (defensive QB).. There has been no battle tested, seasoned player there. so maybe he has been giving Bres a pass on that.

Maybe he needs to just approach this as a business rather than a fraternity... Admit to your mistakes and your bad decisions (which he does make a few) and find a way to get this team united... When TJ is starting to talk about being underpaid with 3 weeks left in the season that show a total lack of focus, and yes these players have egos and are proud and will go out and play hard, that is still a distraction to the team.

[sparky151]

Schottenheimer or Cowher are certainly better coaches than Lewis but it's unlikely either would come to Cincinnati.

Marvin doesn't manage games well, doesn't seem to know when to kick and when to go for it, and doesn't know his personnel. I'm not sure how he gets better.

[ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='Actium' post='610746' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:47 PM']old, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. [b] I think there is enough talent here to win.[/b] Last season we needed 1 of 3 at the end to get a playoff spot. We showed up flat. Now I will say this for marvin: he got us in that position. But he couldn't close the deal. He never could. That's why I say he's an underachiever.

I don't think I ever wrote this, but I will now. If the team could have won the Buffalo game in 2005, we would have gotten a first round bye in the playoffs. guess what--then Carson wouldn't have gotten his knee shredded in the first round game. Who knows what would have happened. it pains me to think what might have been.

The Bengals under Marvin can't finish. And that is a vital component of any championship team, or even contender.[/quote]
well no shit, but it hasnt been on the active roster for most of this season.

[cwing]

Steve Erckel

[cwing]

[quote name='Actium' post='610746' date='Dec 17 2007, 01:47 PM']old, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I think there is enough talent here to win.[/quote]


Please break down position by position all this talent we have.

O Lineman ??????? Levi struggling, Willie non factor, Guycheck struggling, Andrews improving, Whitworth improving, Williams -- a stud. Improving means they are playing ok but their better days are ahead. Not to mention Levi not playing until after the bye, Guycheck/Andrews/Levi/Willie all missing mulitple starts and Kooster has started at two different spots --- not good.

Wide receivers ???? Yes they have Cj/Tj but whom else has been there? Henry missed half the season and has not been impressive as of yet.

RB ???? Rudi hurt since week 2, Irons/Perry never saw regualr season action. DeDE not with the team until what 3-4 weeks in or later. Basically the 4th team guys was the starter.

And the defense ----------- ugh !!!

I do not see all this talent you speak of. Now if you include the entire roster and not the active roster ------- Then I see it.

[cwing]

[quote name='sparky151' post='610867' date='Dec 17 2007, 06:20 PM']Schottenheimer or Cowher are certainly better coaches than Lewis but it's unlikely either would come to Cincinnati.

Marvin doesn't manage games well, doesn't seem to know when to kick and when to go for it, and doesn't know his personnel. I'm not sure how he gets better.[/quote]

Cowher was nearly fired after a few rocky years as he stuck with Kordell. they stuck wiht him and he won a SB.
Schottenheimer can not win the big game and has been fired by how many teams????????? Cleveland, KC, SD, others?
Belicheck was once the head coach at Cleveland --- you think they are happy they fired him.
Fisher was on the hot seat. Another losing season and he is gone ------- they go to the SB.
Dungy fired at TB. Wins SB in Indy.
Chucky forced out in Oakland, wins SB in TB.

The NFL is a rocky road with many ups and downs -------- Marvin may or may not recover from this. I believe he will. If they maintain the key players and get 75% of those guys back healthy, add one or two guys through the draft or through FA this team will be in the playoffs and jsut may play inot late jan early Feb next season.

If we lose key guys and don't get the right ones back --------- maybe it dooms Marvin. Only time will tell.