Hobson is stupid, but not as stupid as this thread

[oldschooler]

All the players they have signed, Benson, Crocker, O'Sullivan, Shayne and Coles
were planned, well Coles taking TJ's money. So what about the money that they
were trying to re-sign Stacy Andrews with, did it just magically disappear?


[quote][size=5][b]Wild week [/b][/size]
By GEOFF HOBSON
March 5, 2009

An estimated $15 million charged to the 2009 salary cap later, the Bengals did what they said they were going to do just six days into free agency.

Now the biggest question left before the draft, it seems, is if they are going to do what everybody says they're going to do and trade wide receiver Chad Ocho Cinco.

Because it looks there isn't enough cap room to pursue another significant deal. Head coach Marvin Lewis says they're going to "chip away," and that could mean fullback and a backup offensive linemen that may or may not be a center.

They have filled the spots of the four most vulnerable positions on the depth chart (kicker, wide receiver, running back, backup quarterback) and re-signed their other offseason priority, safety Chris Crocker.

After introducing wide receiver Laveranues Coles at Thursday's news conference, Lewis almost seem surprised that so much money had gone so quickly. After the grueling 4-11-1, Lewis said he and Bengals president Mike Brown have often met.

"A lot has been said that they dont do this and they don't do that. Well, that's not really true. We do do, and we do it at a very, very high level," Lewis said. "We have more things to doWe'll continue to kind of fill some of the areas I really thought (needed to be filled). It was a tough year. I sat many times and looked at our football team and spent a lot of time talking with Mike about areas I felt we needed to make sure we get better in, and to his credit he allowed that to occur. He just kind of grins, but I've got to make it work."

Coles counts for nearly half of the recent outlay with a salary cap hit estimated at $7.2 million for '09. The flurry started two weeks ago by putting the franchise tag on kicker Shayne Graham at $2.48 million. Also in the mix is an estimated $3 million hit for running back Cedric Benson and $2 million on Crocker. O'Sullivan figures to count around $1 million.

They are still in the market for players, such as two that visited Thursday, Vikings restricted free agent fullback Naufahu Tahi and backup guard/tackle George Foster. [b]But with the $5 million parceled out for draft picks and another $3-4 million for incentives, plus an injury allowance, they are looking at it like it's going to be an extremely difficult proposition to roll out starting money to someone else. [/b]

Which means it's doubtful they're going to re-sign center Eric Ghiaciuc, now making it the most vulnerable position on the roster. Their strategy indicates they are prepared to go with two of their young centers that have had a season in the system but haven't played games (Kyle Cook and Dan Santucci), yet this is also a center-rich draft.

The Coles deal is getting ripped in some quarters, presumably because if they were willing to let 31-year-old T.J. Houshmandzadeh go to save cap room, why did they give it right back to another 31-year-old receiver?

It shows you that when quarterback Carson Palmer wants to use his sway internally (which isn't often), he's got $130 million worth. It also shows he knows his biological clock (30 on Dec. 27) is ticking. It also may show that he's not yet comfortable with the young receivers they plucked in the draft last year. [b]And, yeah, it could mean that Ocho Cinco is going on the block like everybody in the national media is writing.

(One example: ESPN's James Walker said in a chat he expects them to explore a trade. But a Dallas observer said Thursday don't count the post T.O. Cowboys as interested.)[/b]

When it came to the young receivers, second-rounder Jerome Simpson and third-rounder Andre Caldwell, Lewis was vague about how they'll be able to develop behind two receivers with more than 1,200 catches, which was the problem last year.

Instead, he talked about them having more competition and mentoring.

"Carson has been beating me up since (free agency) got started last Friday morning about Laveranues," Lewis said. "We got it done. He's concerned that he has great weapons and guys he can count on all the time. We had a consistent player (in Houshmandzadeh.) We had to make sure we found one just as consistent and maybe had some other areas that right now (Coles)has been a little more productive in."

The $15 million is a bargain if it means they can get help on either side of the line on the first day of the draft. Now they've got Coles and they don't have to take Texas Tech wide receiver Michael Crabtree at No. 6, although they would be wise to act like they will so they can get somebody to trade up.

And the signing of Benson means they can get their rookie running back also on Sunday instead of Saturday.[/quote]


[url="http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7548"]http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7548[/url]

[|Tigers Johnson|]

I often wonder if Hobson is told by the organization to say the Bengals don't have any money or if he does it on his own.

The worst part about it is everyone sees right through it.....

[Mattyc]

Its everyone's favorite yearly report from Hobson about how we have run out of money to sign anyone of significance.

The things that I didn't realize is that Carson turns 30 this year, that is kind of sad, my how time flies.

[mroby85]

[quote name='Mattyc' post='754014' date='Mar 5 2009, 08:26 PM']Its everyone's favorite yearly report from Hobson about how we have run out of money to sign anyone of significance.

The things that I didn't realize is that Carson turns 30 this year, that is kind of sad, my how time flies.[/quote]

I know, I was thinking the same thing. It's really sad too, to think how many of those years have been wasted with a great QB back there. I really hope we can get a super bowl before he's finished up, but it seems less likely all the time.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='Mattyc' post='754014' date='Mar 5 2009, 08:26 PM']Its everyone's favorite yearly report from Hobson about how we have run out of money to sign anyone of significance.

The things that I didn't realize is that Carson turns 30 this year, that is kind of sad, my how time flies.[/quote]

But at least it's not until late December...so he'll still be on the sunny side of 30 for the '09 season. And he won't vanish because the clock turns three-oh.

I've learned to expect all of this crap from Geoff. He begins the FA year saying there is no money...he ends the FA year saying there's no money. But how can anyone shoot the messenger...he just repeats what he's fed from the Corner Office at PBS.

I swear we must lead the league in injury settlements...as every year it is a reported major reason there is no cash for FA.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='mroby85' post='754017' date='Mar 5 2009, 08:33 PM']I know, I was thinking the same thing. It's really sad too, to think how many of those years have been wasted with a great QB back there. I really hope we can get a super bowl before he's finished up, but it seems less likely all the time.[/quote]


not that I'm trying to compare them or their franchises at all, but Peyton Manning was just about to 31 before he made it to his first Super Bowl.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

i was wondering the same about Andrews money too! but other than that i liked reading the
part about Carson buggning Marvin about Coles i like what im hearing about Carson lobbying
to get certain players. makes me feel like he is taking control of his team, and that he is not far from
being 30.

[oldschooler]

From Stripe Hype . . .



[quote][b]HOBSON HURTING FOR HATE MAIL?[/b] In the wake of the O’Sullivan agreement, bengals.com’s Geoff Hobson [url="http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7548"][color="#f04d23"]writes[/color][/url] that he Bengals’ foray into free agency is winding down for lack of cap space.

Geoff, you know that’s going to get you called “Mike Brown’s Bobo” — and worse — on Bengals forums around the innertubes, right? Right. I know, that’s why you do it.

I’ll simply point out that the Bengals have a few opportunities to create more cap space if they need it. For example, with the [b]Chris Crocker[/b] signing, [b]Dexter Jackson[/b] is likely out the door. That would free up something in the neighborhood of $1.5 million in cap space.

But, if the Bengals can finish off free agency with a fullback, I’ll be satisfied. And they shouldn’t need a ton of cap room to do that. And it’s good to read that they are finally looking at offensive linemen in free agency, even it it is a backup.[/quote]




[url="http://stripehype.com/2009/03/05/bengals-osullivan-reach-two-year-deal/"]http://stripehype.com/2009/03/05/bengals-o...-two-year-deal/[/url]

[Rumble In the Jungle]

man, i would really like to get George Foster here.

[Jason]

[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' post='754025' date='Mar 5 2009, 08:53 PM']man, i would really like to get George Foster here.[/quote]

Yeah, I loved his long home runs!

[mroby85]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='754019' date='Mar 5 2009, 08:36 PM']not that I'm trying to compare them or their franchises at all, but Peyton Manning was just about to 31 before he made it to his first Super Bowl.[/quote]

Yeah, I hope you're right, Manning was in the playoffs many times, and favored to win many times before he actually did as well. The Bengals have only been in the playoffs once, and not been back since.

[Inigo Montoya]

There was a discussion about the Bengals' spending in another thread. Factoring in the Coles and O'Sullivan contracts, the Bengals have spent $19.4 million on the following players:


2.483 Shayne Graham (Franchise Tag)
1.545 Rashad Jeanty (RFA, 2nd Round Tender)
1.545 Brandon Johnson (RFA, 2nd Round Tender)
0.620 Daryl Blackstock (UFA, Veteran Minimum)
2.000 Chris Crocker (UFA, 4 year contract)
3.000 Cedric Benson (UFA, 2 year contract)
7.200 Laveraneus Coles (UFA, 4 year contract)
1.000 J.T. O'Sullivan (UFA, 2 year contract)



I envision every player listed above will make the Bengals 53 man roster. I purposely did not count Daniel Coats, DeDe Dorsey, Orien Harris, and Ryan Plackemeier. None of the three will earn more than the vet minimum and it's doubtful that all them will make the final roster. The Bengals are apparently reserving $9-10 million for the rookie pool and incentives/injuries. Given that apparent obstacle, the Bengals only have $3-4 million left in cap space, which of course assumes the Bengals had $32 million in cap space from the start. Other estimates had the Bengals with $26 million in cap space, which would mean that pretty much all the money is gone.


I know, I know. It's a little hard to believe. Then again, it is Hobknob, Mikey's faithful water boy.

[starkesn]

[quote name='Inigo Montoya' post='754035' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:52 PM']There was a discussion about the Bengals' spending in another thread. Factoring in the Coles and O'Sullivan contracts, the Bengals have spent $19.4 million on the following players:


2.483 Shayne Graham (Franchise Tag)
1.545 Rashad Jeanty (RFA, 2nd Round Tender)
1.545 Brandon Johnson (RFA, 2nd Round Tender)
0.620 Daryl Blackstock (UFA, Veteran Minimum)
2.000 Chris Crocker (UFA, 4 year contract)
3.000 Cedric Benson (UFA, 2 year contract)
7.200 Laveraneus Coles (UFA, 4 year contract)
1.000 J.T. O'Sullivan (UFA, 2 year contract)



I envision every player listed above will make the Bengals 53 man roster. I purposely did not count Daniel Coats, DeDe Dorsey, Orien Harris, and Ryan Plackemeier. None of the three will earn more than the vet minimum and it's doubtful that all them will make the final roster. The Bengals are apparently reserving $9-10 million for the rookie pool and incentives/injuries. Given that apparent obstacle, the Bengals only have $3-4 million left in cap space, which of course assumes the Bengals had $32 million in cap space from the start. Other estimates had the Bengals with $26 million in cap space, which would mean that pretty much all the money is gone.


I know, I know. It's a little hard to believe. Then again, it is Hobknob, Mikey's faithful water boy.[/quote]

They probably have room for 1 MAYBE 2 signings total. They could also free up some room by releasing Dexter and/or Perry.

[Mattyc]

Was it ever determined if we left $10 Million in last years cap? A few weeks ago their was an article or something about it?

[Inigo Montoya]

[quote name='starkesn' post='754037' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:14 PM']They probably have room for 1 MAYBE 2 signings total. They could also free up some room by releasing Dexter and/or Perry.[/quote]


Dexter, Levi, and Perry might be cap casualties.






[quote name='Mattyc' post='754042' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:41 PM']Was it ever determined if we left $10 Million in last years cap? A few weeks ago their was an article or something about it?[/quote]



I don't know that it was ever confirmed. If it's true, it's pretty inexcusable that at least Shayne didn't get an extension with some of that money.

[bengalsdave985]

You can probably add Chatman and Watson to that list. That should free up another mil or so

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='bengalsdave985' post='754045' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:57 PM']You can probably add Chatman and Watson to that list. That should free up another mil or so[/quote]
I could definetely see Chatman cut due to his injury history, but Watson...I dunno. He's been a solid backup, but may be wanting more money that we cannot/will not give him. If he accepts his role and concurrent contract, I'd like him around. He's versatile.

[|Bengal Migration|]

Hobson? Stupid? Really? You don't say!

[CougarQuest]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='754053' date='Mar 5 2009, 11:17 PM']I could definetely see Chatman cut due to his injury history, but Watson...I dunno. He's been a solid backup, but may be wanting more money that we cannot/will not give him. If he accepts his role and concurrent contract, I'd like him around. He's versatile.[/quote]
Watson is 31 years old and was injured most of last year.
Chatman is 30 years old and was injured most of his Cincinnati career.

[Bengalmaniac]

[quote name='Mattyc' post='754042' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:41 PM']Was it ever determined if we left $10 Million in last years cap? A few weeks ago their was an article or something about it?[/quote]
Yes,last year they had an extra 10 mil.they did not spend.
I heard and read somewhere that the bengals had 33 million to spend this year.

[TheBeaverHunter]

[quote]The $15 million is a bargain if it means they can get help on either side of the line on the first day of the draft. Now they've got Coles and they don't have to take Texas Tech wide receiver Michael Crabtree at No. 6, although they would be wise to act like they will so they can get somebody to trade up.[/quote]

Hobson is a mastermind of foolery.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='bengalsdave985' post='754045' date='Mar 5 2009, 10:57 PM']You can probably add Chatman and Watson to that list. That should free up another mil or so[/quote]


I wouldn't necessarily count Chatman. While he'll be cut, MB on occasion will pay guys their full salary. They cut weathersby after non-football injuries ended his career, but still paid his 2005 salary. Wouldn't be shocked to see them do something for Chatman.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Inigo Montoya' post='754035' date='Mar 5 2009, 08:52 PM']There was a discussion about the Bengals' spending in another thread. Factoring in the Coles and O'Sullivan contracts, the Bengals have spent $19.4 million on the following players:


2.483 Shayne Graham (Franchise Tag)
1.545 Rashad Jeanty (RFA, 2nd Round Tender)
1.545 Brandon Johnson (RFA, 2nd Round Tender)
0.620 Daryl Blackstock (UFA, Veteran Minimum)
2.000 Chris Crocker (UFA, 4 year contract)
3.000 Cedric Benson (UFA, 2 year contract)
7.200 Laveraneus Coles (UFA, 4 year contract)
1.000 J.T. O'Sullivan (UFA, 2 year contract)



I envision every player listed above will make the Bengals 53 man roster. I purposely did not count Daniel Coats, DeDe Dorsey, Orien Harris, and Ryan Plackemeier. None of the three will earn more than the vet minimum and it's doubtful that all them will make the final roster. The Bengals are apparently reserving $9-10 million for the rookie pool and incentives/injuries. Given that apparent obstacle, the Bengals only have $3-4 million left in cap space, which of course assumes the Bengals had $32 million in cap space from the start. Other estimates had the Bengals with $26 million in cap space, which would mean that pretty much all the money is gone.


I know, I know. It's a little hard to believe. Then again, it is Hobknob, Mikey's faithful water boy.[/quote]


According to this article, the Bengals had $30.7 million in cap space. (It was written March 1st).
So the "commited salaries included Shayne, Blackstock and Crocker and the other players
you are not counting. And it takes into account the RFAs. So if you add their cap hit, the Bengals
had about $27 million left over.

[b]Salary cap budgeting

NFL teams have a salary cap of $127 million for the upcoming season. Although some have estimated that the Bengals do have a lot of cap room, it is not as much as it appears. As the league year began Friday, here is an estimated look at how much the Bengals might have left this season for free agency. The figures take into account cap numbers from previous years, previous draft contracts and various contingenices. It is a ballpark representation:

Committed salaries - $96.3 million

Starting room - $30.7 million

Mandatory accounting areas

First-round pick - $6.5 million

Draft picks -- $4.5 million

Practice squad - $700,000

Injuries - $3 million*

Incentives - $3.5 million*

Restricted free agents - $3.1 million

Estimated available room - $9.4 million

* Must count against cap this year.[/b]


Thing is though, the only thing that counts against the cap right now is the
top 53 paid players. Reedy is counting $11 million for draft picks, and another
$7 million for the practice squad, injuries and incentives. That is stuff that will
count later, not now. And again, what happened to the money they were
going to sign Stacy Andrews with? Marvin hinted that they were close at
one point, surely they weren't close with a $1-3 million offer on the table.

My point is, Hobson is acting like the Bengals are already to the cap.
They aren't. Like I said, only the top 53 players count right now.
To act like you have to count incentives and injuries, when they aren't
being counted against you, is stupid. Because the Bengals more than likely
will offset those numbers with some June cuts. The Bengals really are about
$17-18 million under the cap right now. Yes they will need the majority of
that money by the time the season starts. But they will also be making moves
that free up money. Hell, they freed up about $10 million last August.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='754084' date='Mar 6 2009, 09:24 AM']According to this article, the Bengals had $30.7 million in cap space. (It was written March 1st).
So the "commited salaries included Shayne, Blackstock and Crocker and the other players
you are not counting. And it takes into account the RFAs. So if you add their cap hit, the Bengals
had about $27 million left over.

[b]Salary cap budgeting

NFL teams have a salary cap of $127 million for the upcoming season. Although some have estimated that the Bengals do have a lot of cap room, it is not as much as it appears. As the league year began Friday, here is an estimated look at how much the Bengals might have left this season for free agency. The figures take into account cap numbers from previous years, previous draft contracts and various contingenices. It is a ballpark representation:

Committed salaries - $96.3 million

Starting room - $30.7 million

Mandatory accounting areas

First-round pick - $6.5 million

Draft picks -- $4.5 million

Practice squad - $700,000

Injuries - $3 million*

Incentives - $3.5 million*

Restricted free agents - $3.1 million

Estimated available room - $9.4 million

* Must count against cap this year.[/b]


Thing is though, the only thing that counts against the cap right now is the
top 53 paid players. Reedy is counting $11 million for draft picks, and another
$7 million for the practice squad, injuries and incentives. That is stuff that will
count later, not now. And again, what happened to the money they were
going to sign Stacy Andrews with? Marvin hinted that they were close at
one point, surely they weren't close with a $1-3 million offer on the table.

My point is, Hobson is acting like the Bengals are already to the cap.
They aren't. Like I said, only the top 53 players count right now.
[b]To act like you have to count incentives and injuries, when they aren't
being counted against you, is stupid. Because the Bengals more than likely
will offset those numbers with some June cuts. The Bengals really are about
$17-18 million under the cap right now. Yes they will need the majority of
that money by the time the season starts. But they will also be making moves
that free up money. Hell, they freed up about $10 million last August.[/b][/quote]

Exactly... you don't have injury settlements, etc. in June, July, August... and you'll have training camp cuts at the end of August. And, $11 million for draft picks??? No way.

[happyrid]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='754084' date='Mar 6 2009, 09:24 AM']According to this article, the Bengals had $30.7 million in cap space. (It was written March 1st).
So the "commited salaries included Shayne, Blackstock and Crocker and the other players
you are not counting. And it takes into account the RFAs. So if you add their cap hit, the Bengals
had about $27 million left over.

[b]Salary cap budgeting

NFL teams have a salary cap of $127 million for the upcoming season. Although some have estimated that the Bengals do have a lot of cap room, it is not as much as it appears. As the league year began Friday, here is an estimated look at how much the Bengals might have left this season for free agency. The figures take into account cap numbers from previous years, previous draft contracts and various contingenices. It is a ballpark representation:

Committed salaries - $96.3 million

Starting room - $30.7 million

Mandatory accounting areas

First-round pick - $6.5 million

Draft picks -- $4.5 million

Practice squad - $700,000

Injuries - $3 million*

Incentives - $3.5 million*

Restricted free agents - $3.1 million

Estimated available room - $9.4 million

* Must count against cap this year.[/b]


Thing is though, the only thing that counts against the cap right now is the
top 53 paid players. Reedy is counting $11 million for draft picks, and another
$7 million for the practice squad, injuries and incentives. That is stuff that will
count later, not now. And again, what happened to the money they were
going to sign Stacy Andrews with? Marvin hinted that they were close at
one point, surely they weren't close with a $1-3 million offer on the table.

My point is, Hobson is acting like the Bengals are already to the cap.
They aren't. Like I said, only the top 53 players count right now.
To act like you have to count incentives and injuries, when they aren't
being counted against you, is stupid. Because the Bengals more than likely
will offset those numbers with some June cuts. The Bengals really are about
$17-18 million under the cap right now. Yes they will need the majority of
that money by the time the season starts. But they will also be making moves
that free up money. Hell, they freed up about $10 million last August.[/quote]

Those numbers don't seem quite right to me either. Those may be close to the actual costs, but not everything actually counts against the cap. So like you point out, its only the salaries of the top 53, so you can't count practice squad salaries in that number.

I think (hope) that when Hobson was saying they can't afford "starter type money" he means not more big contracts like Coles got and not that they can't give 3 or 4 mil a year to a decent OL like Goff or somebody.