!!!OFFICIAL 2009 HARD KNOCKS EPISODE #3 THREAD!!!

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='sois' date='27 August 2009 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1251390105' post='795230']
Obviously, it's a little intimidation dance. Some of you guys are brain dead.

And Go: yes, Madden does suck, why would I buy it if I say it sucks? Am I only allowed to say stuff sucks if I buy it? What is the point of that, only an idiot would buy a crappy product just to complain. I'm trying to open people's eyes to the crappiness that is Madden Roster Update 10. I've bought every Madden except the last one and it feels like the same game every year, why wouldn't I be pissed now that the game still sucks and they are now charging for stuff that used to be free?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbmpxWKm3RE"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mbmpxWKm3RE[/url]
Watch the RG, where on earth does that happen in football? That is pee wee basic football that they fail to program. 2k could do it, why can't big bad Madden?
[/quote]

saying something is horrible that you have never played is a bit.. brain dead.... not to mention going out of ones way to lie about the game, that he has never played, to prove that it sucks... seems borderline pathetic actually..

and kind of creepy.

[sois]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='27 August 2009 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1251391700' post='795241']
saying something is horrible that you have never played is a bit.. brain dead.... not to mention going out of ones way to lie about the game, that he has never played, to prove that it sucks... seems borderline pathetic actually..

and kind of creepy.
[/quote]

Where am I lying?

Last year you could use any NFL player in superstar mode for free. Now you have to pay to use an existing NFL player.
In Madden on PS2, you could talk players out of retirement. Now you have to pay to do that.

Do you not have an opinion on any products you don't actually own? Should I ignore the tons of negative reviews online? All of the glitch videos? Should I ignore the fact that the injured reserve rules STILL don't work correctly?

What is your boner for that game?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='sois' date='27 August 2009 - 12:59 PM' timestamp='1251392352' post='795242']
Where am I lying?

Last year you could use any NFL player in superstar mode for free. Now you have to pay to use an existing NFL player.
In Madden on PS2, you could talk players out of retirement. Now you have to pay to do that.

Do you not have an opinion on any products you don't actually own? Should I ignore the tons of negative reviews online? All of the glitch videos? Should I ignore the fact that the injured reserve rules STILL don't work correctly?

What is your boner for that game?
[/quote]

list for me games that are perfect..

zero.

i may have opinions.. but im not going, seeing threads about them, and dumping in those threads about the games ive never played.

what reviews did you read? you werent going to buy it anyway? i guess halo sucks if there are glitch videos?

i have no hatf on for any game, i play video games about 3 hours a month, tops, madden is a quality football game, good graphics, good gameplay, good natural motions, etc.. and last time you said you had to pay to use superstar mode at all, in a weird creepy jealous rant..

what is your hard on against the game?

IR rules? jesus christ dude get a fucking life....

its a football video game. you creepy weirdo... drop the player and adjust the roster to fit IR if needed, you can adjust essentially all of the rules to fit your needs...

seems like your an over critical psychopath hell bent on bashing a football video game.

THATS FUCKING CREEPY.

[TheBeaverHunter]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-vf0KF_JrU&feature=fvw"]Big Ben Madden 2010[/url]

This is a funny glitch of Big Ben.

[sois]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='27 August 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1251393330' post='795248']
list for me games that are perfect..

zero.

i may have opinions.. but im not going, seeing threads about them, and dumping in those threads about the games ive never played.

what reviews did you read? you werent going to buy it anyway? i guess halo sucks if there are glitch videos?

i have no hatf on for any game, i play video games about 3 hours a month, tops, madden is a quality football game, good graphics, good gameplay, good natural motions, etc.. and last time you said you had to pay to use superstar mode at all, in a weird creepy jealous rant..

what is your hard on against the game?

IR rules? jesus christ dude get a fucking life....

its a football video game. you creepy weirdo... drop the player and adjust the roster to fit IR if needed, you can adjust essentially all of the rules to fit your needs...

seems like your an over critical psychopath hell bent on bashing a football video game.

THATS FUCKING CREEPY.
[/quote]


My hard on against the game is that EA is the only company who can make NFL games. They can't even program basic pee wee blocking schemes. 2k5 did it. That is the foundation of football, the OL.

Sorry I'm not Mr. Casual football gamer. I like things to be accurate especially when I buy the game every year and the same issues are found. If you don't care about accuracy or rules, why don't you just stick with Madden 09 or 08 or 07?

I like simulation football games. What's wrong with that? I like the real NFL rules. Should I cut and injured Carson Palmer just to sign an injury replacement? That isn't NFL.

I don't like paying for roster updates when all of these other games are getting real innovation. If GTA came out with a game that had less features than the PS2 versions, would you feel pissed off if you paid for that?

I've spent 250 bones on next-gen maddens, not counting PSP versions, and the game still has the same issues from Madden 06.

[-GoBengals-]

creepin me out... its video games my friend..

video games...

[sois]

[quote name='GoBengals' date='27 August 2009 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1251395053' post='795258']
creepin me out... its video games my friend..

video games...
[/quote]


Can you not accept some people like different things than you? I like simulator games. What if this was a flight simulator and the plane performed unrealistic maneuvers?

I like simulation football games. EA has branded Madden as "what you see on Sundays" and fails to deliver. The game still has the same bad blocking and bad defensive back AI as it did in Madden 06.

I like video games dude, sorry. I guess people who like games creep you out. I hate when I am paying for stuff and getting nothing in return. I am trying to help possible consumers be aware of the negatives this game has. Madden bombards them with ads, I feel it is fair to give a review from a simulation fan's point of view.

Some people would consider a guy who pays for and hosts a forum for a football team who doesn't even know he exists creepy. You probably do more for this forum than I do for Madden. Is that creepy? Probably to some people. Do you still feel passionately enough to continue to run this forum? Yes, it seems you do.

I'm not gonna talk shit about you for that. I'm happy people have their passions. I'm super happy you have this forum passion. I love this forum.

[|Lucid|]

I have to say, there are things about Madden that piss me off.. Not because it's not perfect, but as SOIS points out, these issues have been ongoing through several generations.. Shit, it took them all the way till last years version to implement multiple tacklers.

It gets hard paying for a "new" product every year, only to realize it's the EXACT SAME GAME only with an updated roster and some new fluff "feature" thrown in.

I used to love playing Madden, but to be honest, I haven't played it in a while and may not even buy this years version. Fight Night RD 4 is pretty fucking awesome though, and I think that will hold me over just fine for a while.. Probably until I can get Madden for around 1/2 off.

[sois]

[quote name='Lucid' date='27 August 2009 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1251396204' post='795263']
I have to say, there are things about Madden that piss me off.. Not because it's not perfect, but as SOIS points out, these issues have been ongoing through several generations.. Shit, it took them all the way till last years version to implement multiple tacklers.

It gets hard paying for a "new" product every year, only to realize it's the EXACT SAME GAME only with an updated roster and some new fluff "feature" thrown in.

I used to love playing Madden, but to be honest, I haven't played it in a while and may not even buy this years version. Fight Night RD 4 is pretty fucking awesome though, and I think that will hold me over just fine for a while.. Probably until I can get Madden for around 1/2 off.
[/quote]

Yup, exactly. It boggles my mind that the same company that makes badass games like Fight Night 4, NHL 09, Rock Band, and Tiger Woods can have what looks like their worst development team on Madden, the most popular American sport.

I'm just a little bit die hard about football gaming and the pickings have been slim for five years. EA won't change anything until the feel it in the wallet. If people keep paying for roster updates and half assed modes, nothing will ever change.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' date='27 August 2009 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1251388482' post='795227']
lol, Mike Brown did look like a night manager at Wendey's hahaha
with his short sleeve button up with a tie
[/quote]

[SlantNGo]

[quote name='sois' date='27 August 2009 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1251390105' post='795230']
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbmpxWKm3RE
Watch the RG, where on earth does that happen in football? That is pee wee basic football that they fail to program. 2k could do it, why can't big bad Madden?
[/quote]

I don't see a problem with what the RG is doing. That is a trap play, so the C and RG are supposed to block down (to the left in this case) so the RG is supposed to let the DT directly in front of him go (or at most give a shot with one arm) and then go after the MLB. The animations are poor so the RG isn't able to get the MLB most of the time, but the play of the interior line is mostly correct there. The LG is supposed to blindside the DT and blow him out of the gap (again crappy animation here). The player makes things a bit worse by cutting to the outside every time--he is supposed to run behind the LG's trap, although either the LG sucks, the DT is awesome, or the blocking logic is messed up because the DT is neutralizing the LG.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='SlantNGo' date='27 August 2009 - 03:19 PM' timestamp='1251397172' post='795271']
I don't see a problem with what the RG is doing. That is a trap play, so the C and RG are supposed to block down (to the left in this case) so the RG is supposed to let the DT directly in front of him go (or at most give a shot with one arm) and then go after the MLB. The animations are poor so the RG isn't able to get the MLB most of the time, but the play of the interior line is mostly correct there. The LG is supposed to blindside the DT and blow him out of the gap (again crappy animation here). The player makes things a bit worse by cutting to the outside every time--he is supposed to run behind the LG's trap, although either the LG sucks, the DT is awesome, or the blocking logic is messed up because the DT is neutralizing the LG.
[/quote]

The running game in the previous version was busted too.. From what I have seen from video on line is that it may have gotten even worse. Usually it's a case (as in this vid) of a lineman running off into space and absolutely doing nothing.

IMO, the problem is it seems they program the AI to try and react to what the player is doing (probably to try and "fix" it for people who don;t know how to follow blocking) instead of just making the blocker run the play. At least that's the behavior I think I saw occuring when the running game took a slide a couple versions ago.

[Jeb]

[quote name='sois' date='27 August 2009 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1251395560' post='795259']
Can you not accept some people like different things than you? I like simulator games. What if this was a flight simulator and the plane performed unrealistic maneuvers?

I like simulation football games. EA has branded Madden as "what you see on Sundays" and fails to deliver. The game still has the same bad blocking and bad defensive back AI as it did in Madden 06.

I like video games dude, sorry. I guess people who like games creep you out. I hate when I am paying for stuff and getting nothing in return. I am trying to help possible consumers be aware of the negatives this game has. Madden bombards them with ads, I feel it is fair to give a review from a simulation fan's point of view.

Some people would consider a guy who pays for and hosts a forum for a football team who doesn't even know he exists creepy. You probably do more for this forum than I do for Madden. Is that creepy? Probably to some people. Do you still feel passionately enough to continue to run this forum? Yes, it seems you do.

I'm not gonna talk shit about you for that. I'm happy people have their passions. I'm super happy you have this forum passion. I love this forum.
[/quote]

I'm a gamer. Big gamer, but I don't play the sports games so I've got a question. Doesn't EA/Madden have a mod community? If so, wouldn't they have a fix for some of your issues there? I'm sure you're not the only one complaining about these issues.

[|Lucid|]

[quote name='Jeb' date='27 August 2009 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1251400274' post='795283']
I'm a gamer. Big gamer, but I don't play the sports games so I've got a question. Doesn't EA/Madden have a mod community? If so, wouldn't they have a fix for some of your issues there? I'm sure you're not the only one complaining about these issues.
[/quote]


I think he plays on consoles... And mod communities can only exist if the developers make it so they can.. As far as a I know Madden for PC does not fit into this category.

[fredtoast]

Hey, is it still okay to talk about Hard Knocks in this thread?

Best lines

"I don't talk to hurt guys" Zim to Rey.

"You know what you are going to get, don't you. . . Child Please" Ref to Chad

"Stay in touch" Katie to Alvin after a 4 hour session of [b]JUNGLE FEVER[/b]. That is what I always said to the girls I was never going to call again.

Coach after Nelson's big sack telling him to go for the strip. Then he gets the strip at the end of the game. (I know it was just some good editing, but it made our coaches look smart)





Also I bet they work in the Ali visit in a later show.

[Jeb]

[quote name='Lucid' date='27 August 2009 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1251401789' post='795288']
I think he plays on consoles... And mod communities can only exist if the developers make it so they can.. As far as a I know Madden for PC does not fit into this category.
[/quote]

No wonder he's ticked off. Most developers welcome a mod community to keep their game updated, interesting to replay, and for tweaks.

For instance, there is a mod community for Fallout 3, ...they're great mods!

[Jason]

[|kennethmw|]

Just watched Hard knocks again. Three things I think.

This D is going to be a LOT better. It just looks like everyone is buying in to what Zimmer is selling. Tom Nelson has a good chance of making this team, and may let the Bengals be a lot more flexible in players. I think that kid may be the dime corner, he has really good footwork, and he hits like a safety.

Jason shirley has a chance to make this team as a Guard. It will be interesting to see how he plays tonight and next week. I wondered if he was going to accept the move totally, but it looks like he did. I'm pleasantly suprised.

Carson has assumed the mantle of leader on this team. He will win some games for us that we haven't won in the past. Chad and Henry respect him a lot, and the Oline wants to play for him.

Btw, Keels appears out of his league against Katie. I get the feeling that he spends his time trying to justify his position, instaed of negotiating for a position that is a win-win. He's not getting DHB money, but I think if he would understand that the Bengals like contracts that let players stay, and let them make money for performance, he could get something done between Monroe and Bey that would be real money, not all the fake shit that gets advertised but never paid. Hopefully, at some point he wakes up.

[Jumpy]

I loved this:

"When you talk about the strengths that Rey has, He's physical..... I mean... Fuck me man.... The Man's a Load." --- Fitz


"He is a Football player this SumBitch!" --- Zim

[VonBlade]

Sweet jesus 43 (Tom Nelson) can play. Just busting his hump all the time. Bye Lynch.

Zimmer = the fucking man.

Marvin makes me laugh a lot. Great to see them having fun now and again.

Rey was a man amongst boys.

I'd take Leonard over 3D but only because Scott offers the same thing as Dorsey, whereas Leonard is good on blitz pickup and could be Alstott-ish.

Best episode so far. Fucking loved it. Props to Go.

[oldschooler]

[url="/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/2234/hard-knocks-recap-episode-3"][b][size="5"]'Hard Knocks' recap: Episode 3[/size][/b][/url]

August 27, 2009 9:30 AM

[i]
Posted by ESPN.com's James Walker[/i]

HBO's "Hard Knocks" series continued Wednesday night with its third episode on the [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=cin"][color="#666666"]Cincinnati Bengals[/color][/url].

Here is a recap:
[b]
Synopsis:[/b] The Bengals wrap up the final few days of training camp in Georgetown, Ky., and cap it off with a hilarious rookie talent show. Following camp, Cincinnati travels to play its second preseason game against the [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nwe"][color="#000000"]New England Patriots[/color][/url], where a surprise kicker emerges in a 7-6 victory.
[b]
Ocho's kick:[/b] "Hard Knocks" chronicled how [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2584"][color="#000000"]Chad Ochocinco[/color][/url] became a surprise placekicker against New England. Kicker [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3504"][color="#000000"]Shayne Graham[/color][/url] (groin) was a no-go before the game and the Bengals actually planned to go for fourth downs and two-point conversions all night until Ochocinco asked "Bossman," aka Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, if he can kick during the game. It turns out Ochocinco's form was great and his extra point was the difference in the contest. Kudos for a game-winning idea from Ochocinco.
[b]
Palmer ailing:[/b] While getting treatment, Cincinnati's trainer tells a surprised Palmer that his ankle sprain will take "several weeks" to heal. Palmer responds that he heals fast and has more white blood cells than the average human being. (I'm not sure if he was joking or not.) The trainer shrugged and repeated that the team will take its time with the injury. In a shameless plug, the [url="http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/2191/source-palmer-out-vs-rams-maybe-preseason"][color="#666666"]AFC North blog broke a story[/color][/url] earlier Wednesday repeating that sentiment that Cincinnati is being extra cautious with Palmer and is pondering resting him for the remainder of the preseason.
[b]
America's (rookies) got talent:[/b] Perhaps the highlight of episode No. 3 was the rookie talent show. Nothing was off limits as rookies poked fun at [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3536"][color="#000000"]Roy Williams[/color][/url]' relationship with pop star Kelly Rowland, [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12622"][color="#000000"]Andre Smith[/color][/url]'s 40-yard dash and [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2308"][color="#000000"]Dhani Jones[/color][/url]' eccentric ways. Even the usually serious Lewis couldn't stop laughing at these skits. I watched the segment three times myself last night on DVR. Funny stuff.
[b]
Camp surprise:[/b] Rookie free-agent safety [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12928"][color="#000000"]Tom Nelson[/color][/url] is making plays all over the field and is opening the eyes of Bengals coaches. The plays Nelson is making this year is reminiscent of some of the plays 2008 draft pick [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11411"][color="#000000"]Corey Lynch[/color][/url] made in last year's camp. But currently Lynch is struggling and Nelson is thriving as both players likely are fighting for one of the team's final roster spots.
[b]
More Smith talks:[/b] As reported in the media, Smith's agent, Alvin Keels, arrives in Cincinnati to do some down-and-dirty negotiations. Keels goes into an office with Bengals vice president Katie Blackburn and locks the door. "Are we going to get a deal done today, Katie?" Keels asks. "It's up to you, Alvin," Blackburn responds. The two spend several hours in the room only to emerge with nothing. The pair agree to keep in touch. Bengals owner Mike Brown described the talks to his staff by saying, "We have no reason to think it will be [complete] anytime soon."
[b]
RB competition:[/b] It appears [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10341"][color="#000000"]DeDe Dorsey[/color][/url] and [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10496"][color="#000000"]Brian Leonard[/color][/url] are battling for one running back spot. Leonard is solid but not spectacular, while Dorsey brings a "wow factor" that Cincinnati is looking for behind starter [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8419"][color="#000000"]Cedric Benson[/color][/url]. Dorsey has shuffled around the NFL, including a prior trip to Cincinnati, because of inconsistencies and injuries. Leonard was a bust for the [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl"][color="#000000"]St. Louis Rams[/color][/url] and is trying to prove his worth for another team. In a related note, Leonard faces the Rams Thursday night in a preseason contest.
[b]
Grade:[/b] B+
[b]
Why:[/b] This was another solid offering. It covered everything well -- from Palmer's ankle rehab to Ochocinco's extra point to Smith's contract negotiations. I'm still waiting for the big Mike Brown showcase episode, but maybe that's a pipe dream. Besides the occasional appearance by Blackburn, we still haven't seen much of the internal workings of Bengals ownership and the dynamics of the Brown family. But the breakdown of players, coaches and personalities have been tremendous, and this week's episode was another great example.




[url="http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/2234/hard-knocks-recap-episode-3"]http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/2234/hard-knocks-recap-episode-3[/url]

[JC]

Lynch seemed to be regarded as an up and comer last year. Always on the TC field an hour before practice busting his ass, now to most presumably the odd man out.

I wonder if his desire died out..